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	<title>Comments on: Qadiani Jamaat places book &#8220;Kalimat-ul-Fasl&#8221; online</title>
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	<link>http://ahmadiyya.org/WordPress/2007/12/14/qadiani-jamaat-places-book-kalimat-ul-fasl-online/</link>
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	<pubDate>Mon, 12 May 2008 14:44:49 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Zahid Aziz</title>
		<link>http://ahmadiyya.org/WordPress/2007/12/14/qadiani-jamaat-places-book-kalimat-ul-fasl-online/#comment-1777</link>
		<dc:creator>Zahid Aziz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Feb 2008 20:07:22 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>We have added an article about Mirza Bashir Ahmad's book &lt;em&gt;Kalimat-ul-Fasal &lt;/em&gt;to our website which you can read &lt;a href="http://www.ahmadiyya.org/qadis/takfir-kalimat-ul-fasl.htm" target="_blank" rel="nofollow"&gt;at this link.&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We have added an article about Mirza Bashir Ahmad&#8217;s book <em>Kalimat-ul-Fasal </em>to our website which you can read <a href="http://www.ahmadiyya.org/qadis/takfir-kalimat-ul-fasl.htm" target="_blank" rel="nofollow">at this link.</a></p>
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		<title>By: Tariq</title>
		<link>http://ahmadiyya.org/WordPress/2007/12/14/qadiani-jamaat-places-book-kalimat-ul-fasl-online/#comment-1572</link>
		<dc:creator>Tariq</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Jan 2008 23:40:51 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Is there any current official view of the Qadiani Jama’at about this book or are individuals in this Jama'at giving their own explanations? 

You need to realise the gravity of what this book is saying.

The Promised Messiah wrote:

        "It is a matter of amazement that a person who recites the Kalima, faces the Qibla, believes in One God, believes in and truly loves God and His Messenger, and believes in the Quran, should on account of some secondary difference be declared a kafir on par with, nay even more than, Jews and Christians."

(A'inah Kamalat Islam, p.259)

There is no "kafir-lite" in this book by Mirza Bashir Ahmad. Things are stated very plainly and it is these kinds of statements followed by actions which lead to grave consequences for all the followers of Hazrat Mirza Sahib as well as his mission.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Is there any current official view of the Qadiani Jama’at about this book or are individuals in this Jama&#8217;at giving their own explanations? </p>
<p>You need to realise the gravity of what this book is saying.</p>
<p>The Promised Messiah wrote:</p>
<p>        &#8220;It is a matter of amazement that a person who recites the Kalima, faces the Qibla, believes in One God, believes in and truly loves God and His Messenger, and believes in the Quran, should on account of some secondary difference be declared a kafir on par with, nay even more than, Jews and Christians.&#8221;</p>
<p>(A&#8217;inah Kamalat Islam, p.259)</p>
<p>There is no &#8220;kafir-lite&#8221; in this book by Mirza Bashir Ahmad. Things are stated very plainly and it is these kinds of statements followed by actions which lead to grave consequences for all the followers of Hazrat Mirza Sahib as well as his mission.</p>
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		<title>By: Abdul Momin</title>
		<link>http://ahmadiyya.org/WordPress/2007/12/14/qadiani-jamaat-places-book-kalimat-ul-fasl-online/#comment-1567</link>
		<dc:creator>Abdul Momin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Jan 2008 14:53:44 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Calling fellow Muslims kafir is best left to those who had made it their favorite pastime, i.e the various Muslim sects. That is the reason why they could not defend their religion against attacks by external enemies. That is why a Reformer was needed, who duly appeared. If his own ENLIGHTENED followers indulged in the same practice, what was the difference between them and the other bigoted sects?One can only read with dread some of these fatwas of kufr that various Muslim sects label each other with.

When these sects call each other kafir, there is a lot of additional baggage with it. The person who is declared kafir is supposed to have become "apostate" that is, he has left Islam, his wife is no longer married to him, his janaza should not be read, people should not read prayers next to him, people should not have any social relations with him etc.

So the ENLIGHTENED community which was at one time considered by Allama Iqbal as a model Islamic community, should have been extremely cautious in adopting the practice of calling other people kafir.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Calling fellow Muslims kafir is best left to those who had made it their favorite pastime, i.e the various Muslim sects. That is the reason why they could not defend their religion against attacks by external enemies. That is why a Reformer was needed, who duly appeared. If his own ENLIGHTENED followers indulged in the same practice, what was the difference between them and the other bigoted sects?One can only read with dread some of these fatwas of kufr that various Muslim sects label each other with.</p>
<p>When these sects call each other kafir, there is a lot of additional baggage with it. The person who is declared kafir is supposed to have become &#8220;apostate&#8221; that is, he has left Islam, his wife is no longer married to him, his janaza should not be read, people should not read prayers next to him, people should not have any social relations with him etc.</p>
<p>So the ENLIGHTENED community which was at one time considered by Allama Iqbal as a model Islamic community, should have been extremely cautious in adopting the practice of calling other people kafir.</p>
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		<title>By: Tahir Ijaz</title>
		<link>http://ahmadiyya.org/WordPress/2007/12/14/qadiani-jamaat-places-book-kalimat-ul-fasl-online/#comment-1561</link>
		<dc:creator>Tahir Ijaz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Jan 2008 07:28:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ahmadiyya.org/WordPress/2007/12/14/qadiani-jamaat-places-book-kalimat-ul-fasl-online/#comment-1561</guid>
		<description>Books like 'Kalima tul Fasal' were written due to circumstances happening around them. In that era it was especially important to emphasize differences between Ahmadiyya and Muslim community at large as it was a small fledgling community, an island within the the sea of Islam. Adopting a liberal view that denial of Promised Messiah had no significant material bearing on faith could have lead to a much different history for the jamaat, with gradual loss of members to the Muslim community at large.

Moreover, we should realize that when we examine our elders' writings in total and not selectively, even  the more earlier books (like Dawatul Amir by Hz Khalifa II), the kufr they are talking about is the type of kufr within the four walls of Islam, mentioned in the Quran, referring to those Muslims who are weak of faith or even rebellious since they do not submit.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Books like &#8216;Kalima tul Fasal&#8217; were written due to circumstances happening around them. In that era it was especially important to emphasize differences between Ahmadiyya and Muslim community at large as it was a small fledgling community, an island within the the sea of Islam. Adopting a liberal view that denial of Promised Messiah had no significant material bearing on faith could have lead to a much different history for the jamaat, with gradual loss of members to the Muslim community at large.</p>
<p>Moreover, we should realize that when we examine our elders&#8217; writings in total and not selectively, even  the more earlier books (like Dawatul Amir by Hz Khalifa II), the kufr they are talking about is the type of kufr within the four walls of Islam, mentioned in the Quran, referring to those Muslims who are weak of faith or even rebellious since they do not submit.</p>
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		<title>By: Rashid Jahangiri</title>
		<link>http://ahmadiyya.org/WordPress/2007/12/14/qadiani-jamaat-places-book-kalimat-ul-fasl-online/#comment-1224</link>
		<dc:creator>Rashid Jahangiri</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 29 Dec 2007 04:58:53 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I guess quadiani jamaat was forced to make their publication 'Kalima-Tul-Fasal' available on their website, as (former) member of their Jamaat Malik Mushtaq sahib of Austin, Texas, USA scanned this book and made it available online. He has also posted recitation from this book in form of video clips (4 parts) on his You Tube website:
http://youtube.com/ahmediyyagazette</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I guess quadiani jamaat was forced to make their publication &#8216;Kalima-Tul-Fasal&#8217; available on their website, as (former) member of their Jamaat Malik Mushtaq sahib of Austin, Texas, USA scanned this book and made it available online. He has also posted recitation from this book in form of video clips (4 parts) on his You Tube website:<br />
<a href="http://youtube.com/ahmediyyagazette" rel="nofollow">http://youtube.com/ahmediyyagazette</a></p>
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		<title>By: Dr. MAS</title>
		<link>http://ahmadiyya.org/WordPress/2007/12/14/qadiani-jamaat-places-book-kalimat-ul-fasl-online/#comment-1094</link>
		<dc:creator>Dr. MAS</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Dec 2007 01:39:59 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Thanks for this blog entry.

Many key references regarding the issues surrounding the 'Split' can be found in this book. In Pakistan, there were strict instructions to the Murrabi's (Qadiani preachers/clerics) to find and destroy all known copies possessed by the Lahori Jamaat. At times, they would borrow and then never return the copies. It made sense, because that would eliminate all evidence surrounding the Split, and the younger Qadiani generation would remain oblivious to what their elders had written. Also, if, in debates, the Murrabi's were asked to bring a copy of this book (and some other key titles from that era), they were never to be seen again -- they couldn't defend themselves with such 'blatant' evidence in the hands of the Lahori Jamaat members!

Personally, I would be keen to see the Qadiani Jamaat translating an English translation, as well. I would also like to see what the younger Qadiani Jamaat members have to say about this book, particularly if they were aware that such beliefs were held by their Jamaat!?!

What would be amusing if the alislam team had to take the book offline! That would speak loads.

Maybe, we should provide a list of some further titles to the alislam team, so they can spend some time digging the hole deeper.

Very interesting and intriguing!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for this blog entry.</p>
<p>Many key references regarding the issues surrounding the &#8216;Split&#8217; can be found in this book. In Pakistan, there were strict instructions to the Murrabi&#8217;s (Qadiani preachers/clerics) to find and destroy all known copies possessed by the Lahori Jamaat. At times, they would borrow and then never return the copies. It made sense, because that would eliminate all evidence surrounding the Split, and the younger Qadiani generation would remain oblivious to what their elders had written. Also, if, in debates, the Murrabi&#8217;s were asked to bring a copy of this book (and some other key titles from that era), they were never to be seen again &#8212; they couldn&#8217;t defend themselves with such &#8216;blatant&#8217; evidence in the hands of the Lahori Jamaat members!</p>
<p>Personally, I would be keen to see the Qadiani Jamaat translating an English translation, as well. I would also like to see what the younger Qadiani Jamaat members have to say about this book, particularly if they were aware that such beliefs were held by their Jamaat!?!</p>
<p>What would be amusing if the alislam team had to take the book offline! That would speak loads.</p>
<p>Maybe, we should provide a list of some further titles to the alislam team, so they can spend some time digging the hole deeper.</p>
<p>Very interesting and intriguing!</p>
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		<title>By: Abdul Momin</title>
		<link>http://ahmadiyya.org/WordPress/2007/12/14/qadiani-jamaat-places-book-kalimat-ul-fasl-online/#comment-1069</link>
		<dc:creator>Abdul Momin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Dec 2007 18:30:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ahmadiyya.org/WordPress/2007/12/14/qadiani-jamaat-places-book-kalimat-ul-fasl-online/#comment-1069</guid>
		<description>What a gem this book is! All members of the Qadiani jamaat should read this book because the beliefs of their leaders at the time of the split in 1914 would become abundantly clear to them. Some Qadianis, either deliberately or through sheer ignorance, misinform their non-Ahmadi friends that they do not believe that HMGA was a prophet. This book makes the Qadiani beliefs very clear. It should also set to rest all later day pretensions of considering non-Ahmadis as Muslims on the part of the Qadiani Jamaat leadership.

But these beliefs are hard to defend. This became abundantly clear when the Qadiani leadership had to appear before the Court of Inquiry in 1954. The court asked if any Muslim who does not regard Mirza Saheb a prophet, could he be considered a Momin and Muslim? The response was that any person who did not believe in the founder of the Ahmadiyya movement could not be considered a non-Muslim. Further on it was stated that perhaps due to some of their (i.e Qadianis') past writings an attempt may be made to create misunderstandings (an obvious reference to books like Kalamatul Fasal and Aina-Sadaqat) but the terms used in those past writings were used in a restricted sense and not in a general sense as understood by Muslims. These writings were not addressed to non-Ahmadis but to a section of the jamaat (i.e the Lahori Ahmadis). So it was not necessary for those terms (i.e kafir, expulsion from the fold of Islam etc.) which are common to Muslims, to be considered (by the court). 

In front of the same court, this book, as well as Aina-Sadaqat written by Khalifa II, was quoted by Maulana Maudoodi during his testimony, to point out the duplicity of the Qadiani jamaat leaders. Maulana Maudoodi (who at one time during the 1930's had declared the Lahori Ahmadis Muslims in contrast to the Qadianis), was no friend of the Lahori Ahmadis. But in his testimony he said " Who doesn't know that the issue over which the Qadianis have differed with the Lahori Ahmadis over the past 35 years has been the point that the Qadianis consider all Muslims who deny the prophethood of Mirza Saheb as non-Muslims and the Lahoris consider this belief to be wrong. If in this debate, "kafir" and "expulsion from the fold of Islam" did not carry the same meanings as are generally understood by Muslims then what was the point of dispute between the two parties"? (Qadiani Masala by Maulana Maudoodi)


Now that they have published this book on the web, perhaps the Qadiani jamaat would also like to publish the testimony of their leaders in front of the Munir Commission and see for themselves the contradictions in their beliefs.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What a gem this book is! All members of the Qadiani jamaat should read this book because the beliefs of their leaders at the time of the split in 1914 would become abundantly clear to them. Some Qadianis, either deliberately or through sheer ignorance, misinform their non-Ahmadi friends that they do not believe that HMGA was a prophet. This book makes the Qadiani beliefs very clear. It should also set to rest all later day pretensions of considering non-Ahmadis as Muslims on the part of the Qadiani Jamaat leadership.</p>
<p>But these beliefs are hard to defend. This became abundantly clear when the Qadiani leadership had to appear before the Court of Inquiry in 1954. The court asked if any Muslim who does not regard Mirza Saheb a prophet, could he be considered a Momin and Muslim? The response was that any person who did not believe in the founder of the Ahmadiyya movement could not be considered a non-Muslim. Further on it was stated that perhaps due to some of their (i.e Qadianis&#8217;) past writings an attempt may be made to create misunderstandings (an obvious reference to books like Kalamatul Fasal and Aina-Sadaqat) but the terms used in those past writings were used in a restricted sense and not in a general sense as understood by Muslims. These writings were not addressed to non-Ahmadis but to a section of the jamaat (i.e the Lahori Ahmadis). So it was not necessary for those terms (i.e kafir, expulsion from the fold of Islam etc.) which are common to Muslims, to be considered (by the court). </p>
<p>In front of the same court, this book, as well as Aina-Sadaqat written by Khalifa II, was quoted by Maulana Maudoodi during his testimony, to point out the duplicity of the Qadiani jamaat leaders. Maulana Maudoodi (who at one time during the 1930&#8217;s had declared the Lahori Ahmadis Muslims in contrast to the Qadianis), was no friend of the Lahori Ahmadis. But in his testimony he said &#8221; Who doesn&#8217;t know that the issue over which the Qadianis have differed with the Lahori Ahmadis over the past 35 years has been the point that the Qadianis consider all Muslims who deny the prophethood of Mirza Saheb as non-Muslims and the Lahoris consider this belief to be wrong. If in this debate, &#8220;kafir&#8221; and &#8220;expulsion from the fold of Islam&#8221; did not carry the same meanings as are generally understood by Muslims then what was the point of dispute between the two parties&#8221;? (Qadiani Masala by Maulana Maudoodi)</p>
<p>Now that they have published this book on the web, perhaps the Qadiani jamaat would also like to publish the testimony of their leaders in front of the Munir Commission and see for themselves the contradictions in their beliefs.</p>
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