It is very doubtful if you would dare reject his writings using your real name whereby other Muslims would know that you had done it. Other Muslims would condemn you or ridicule you as just an isolated crank.

Want to know about the great repute of Rumi? Only two days ago it was reported in Pakistani newspapers about the religious scholar Karen Armstrong’s visit to Pakistan that:

“She quoted from Islamic history and the works of Rumi and Ibn al-Arabi to illustrate the pluralism in Islam” (The Dawn, 1 February).

You could never afford to antagonise the many Muslims who admire Rumi because the whole basis of the anti-Ahmadiyya organisations is to gain popularity with Muslims.

You have once again refused to answer my question that if a book talks about a prophet and his wife reaching a state of nakedness in front of a third party who “stripped” them of their clothing, would you say that this is an indecent story and that book cannot be from God?

Now let me quote two stories from another book which is accepted by the vast majority of Muslims:

“Once Solomon, son of David said, ‘(By Allah) Tonight I will have sexual intercourse with one hundred (or ninety-nine) women each of whom will give birth to a knight who will fight in Allah’s Cause.’ … but he did not say, ‘Allah willing.’ Therefore only one of those women conceived and gave birth to a half-man. … if he had said, ‘Allah willing’, he would have begotten sons all of whom would have been knights striving in Allah’s Cause.”

Let me ask you the same question which you asked me above: Can you read that to any decent person or to your household?

Here is another story from the same book:

“(people of) Bani Israel used to take bath naked (all together) looking at each other. The Prophet Moses used to take a bath alone. They said, ‘By Allah! Nothing prevents Moses from taking a bath with us except that he has a scrotal hernia.’ So once Moses went out to take a bath and put his clothes over a stone and then that stone ran away with his clothes. Moses followed that stone saying, “My clothes, O stone! My clothes, O stone! till the people of Bani Israel saw him and said, ‘By Allah, Moses has got no defect in his body. Moses took his clothes and began to beat the stone.”

Apparently, this miracle was made to happen so that Moses would appear naked before his people.

So, do you also “in one stroke” reject the book containing these two stories? The words used in the above English translation of these stories are not mine but those of a Sunni scholar who translated the book.

“We are living in a world full of strife and intolerance which is pushing peoples into ideological ghettos,” she said in a lecture as guest of the Aga Khan Foundation and the International Islamic University Islamabad on Friday.

Alongside the intolerance, however, existed the desire for understanding. She said the post-modern mind in the West was trying to reach out to old religious traditions and suggested Muslims should respond to it.

Her next book on how the West came to atheism may be called “The Case for God”, she said.

Ms Armstrong, who is world-renowned for her scholarship and books on religions, said, “intolerance hinders spiritual quest and leads to atrocities not compassion — the true test of religiosity”.

She told her huge audience of university students and others that her books on Islam were meant to clear the minds of “my own people” about Islam. She has given to the revised edition of her popular biography of the Prophet of Islam the title Muhammad — the Prophet of our Times.

“That’s my jihad against West’s Islamophobia,” she said about her literary works.

Intolerance grows out of ignorance or bloated ego and can be conquered “by stepping out of self”, she observed.

She quoted from Islamic history and the works of Rumi and Ibn al-Arabi to illustrate the pluralism in Islam and said the Christians in Al-Quds had such love for Salah ad-Din Ayyubi when he ejected the Crusaders from the holy city that they believed he was a Christian sent by God to free them of the Crusaders’ tyranny.

“I have no idea but there is hope out there,” Ms Armstrong said to a question at the end of her lecture whether intolerance would be overcome.

“We (the older generation) are stuck in our own ideas but you are not. You have clear, clean minds and have youthful energy to embrace the new,” she said addressing the university students filling the galleries of the Jinnah Convention Centre, the venue of her lecture.

“Use technology to spread the compassion and respect for others that Islam teaches. You can save the world,” she said to great applause.

It was the second lecture in a series of five that the Aga Khan Foundation has invited her to deliver in Pakistan on the pluralistic and intellectual traditions of Islam to mark the Golden Jubilee of Prince Karim Aga Khan, the spiritual leader of the Ismail Muslims.

The Golden Jubilee year will see a number of endeavours aimed at building bridges within and outside the Muslim Ummah and also to catalyse new socio-economic, cultural and human development initiatives to realise the social conscience of Islam, and improve the quality of life of the less fortunate in society.

END OF NEWSREPORT.

THE ABOVE IS QUOTED FROM A PAKISTANI NEWSPAPER, DAWN dated February 2, 2008. The author quotes RUMI and Ibn-e-Arabi.

So who needs the opinion of some BELOW AVERAGE INTELLIGENCE Madressah student whether Rumi wrote filth or he was a beacon of enlightenment? This guy needs to have his head examined.

Quote:

I can tell you that whatever he wrote is not an auithority for us nor is he a claiment of mamoor mina Allah, or nabi ot Muhadis… You mirza sahab is an authority for you… If you are saying that if molana rumi wrote filth and so did Mirza sab… then you are admiting that Mirza did write filth……..If Molana Rumi wrote something as you suggested, I can in one stroke reject his writings… can you do that for mirza’s writings? Here is the litmus test to know a follower of truth from a blind follower….

Unquote:

Yo have failed the test miserably .

Quote:

There is no account of a sex scene. All he says is: “All night she was disgraced by him and that filthy man, overcome by lust, carried on doing highly shameful things with her.”

Unquote:

You failed again, and resorted to lies.. which is expected. You guys lack moral courage to say the truth.. thats fine and you deserve that.

And you look even more silly when you gave links marked ” link for stupid people etc….” again that shows the power of ” moderation” that keeps you hide behind these stupid acts. If you have have truth on your side, come clean and show the thread like it was …..don’r give answes like mirzs sahab used to do… always twist , change and stupi congregation of sincere ” goats” accpeted everything hje said.

So what do you think now of the websites who have been circulating this allegation, that Mirza sahib wrote this, which you now know is false? Are you prepared to say that they are lying?

You should be withdrawing your allegation. Instead you changed your allegation to “silent approval”. I am amazed you are now asking: “what is the purpose of that piece?” I have told you in a post above that before quoting this article from the newspaper, Hazrat Mirza sahib wrote on the previous page that these problems would not arise if the teachings of Islam were followed. He is saying: you are having to have such discussions because you reject the teachings of Islam.

You have refused to answer my second question because you want to know which writing I am referring to. You should answer it as a matter of principle and not on the basis of which writing it is. Read the question again:

If a book claims to be from God and it talks about a prophet and his wife reaching a state of nakedness in front of a third party who “stripped” them of their clothing, would you say that this is an indecent story and that book cannot be from God?

(Hint: Think about “book from God”.)

I never said Maulana Rumi wrote filth. I said a Pakistani scholar has proved that what people thought was filth was not so but had a moral message in the stories! Maulana Rumi has a huge following in Turkey, Iran, Pakistan and India. He is regarded as a spiritual guide by millions of Muslims.

You say: “Why Mirz sahab described in details the eye witness account of sex scene in his devinely inspired book? Can you read that to any decent person or to your household? Why you chose to keep that piece hiden behind a link and not on the page?”

There is no account of a sex scene. All he says is: “All night she was disgraced by him and that filthy man, overcome by lust, carried on doing highly shameful things with her.”

To say I have hidden it behind a link is the most stupid statement ever made on the world-wide web. Everything is hidden behind a link until you click on it! You could say even this blog is hidden behind a link.

So in answer to your challenge I repeat the link below:

Here is the link.

Here is the link for stupid people.

Here is the link for even more stupid people.

Is it hidden now?

Your trick is to move from one allegation to another. When defeated here, instead of admitting that you were wrong, you want to move on to your Nishan-i Asmani allegation. If defeated there, you will move on to a third one. That is why I will keep you trapped here.

quote:

My first question is: On this forum when you started accusing Hazrat Mirza sahib of writing that section about the law of inspection, did you already know that it was actually a newspaper article he was quoting?”

Unquote:

The answer is no, But I maintained that if Mirza sb’s writings are devinely inspired, then that piece of indecent writing should not have been there. My question is ” why Mirza deemed it appropriate to put such a writing and such an idea in a devilnely guided book? You fail to see the low taste of mirza shab when he gave a ” silent approval” to the suggestion. Otherwise what is the purpose of that piece?

Quote:

Now my second question. If a book claiming to be from God talks about a prophet and his wife both losing their clothes so as to be made completely naked by a third party, and even the word “stripping” is used in this connection by some translators of that book, would you accept that book as a scripture from God?

Unquote:

What you are trying here comparing mirza’s porno writings with some ” islamic ” writing. I want o see your refernce before commenting further. I can only say that its a common disease with both qadiani and now Lahoris, that they are ready to attack sanctity of holy personalities of Islam to defend a liar.

Quote:

My third question

Have you heard of the Masnavi by Maulana Jalal-ud-Din Rumi? When the British scholar R.A. Nicholson translated it into English from Persian he translated some sentences into Latin, not English, because they were so sexually explicit that ordinary readers in the West would have been shocked! Then in the 1960s a Pakistani Dr Afzal Iqbal wrote a book “The Life and Work of Jalaluddin Rumi” in which he translated

Unquote:

Again, molana Runmi is not an authority for Muslims and Islam. I don’t know what are you talking but I can tell you that whatever he wrote is not an auithority for us nor is he a claiment of mamoor mina Allah, or nabi ot Muhadis… You mirza sahab is an authority for you… If you are saying that if molana rumi wrote filth and so did Mirza sab… then you are admiting that Mirza did write filtht……..If Molanai Rumi wrote something as you suggested, I can in one stroke reject his writings… can you do that for mirza’s writings? Here is the litmus test to know a follower of truth from a blind follower….

Now answer my questions if you have the courage:

Why Mirz sahab described in details the eye witness account of sex scene in his devinely inspired book? Can you read that to any decent person or to your household? Why you chose to keep that piece hiden behind a link and not on the page?

My second question is:

Why you continue to avoid the thread about Nishan e asmani? Are you too embarressed showing that? Mirza was not writing that… he is proven a liar and fabricator of false Ilham in that thread. Show me some courage and honesty and bring that thread….

If not I will know that you believe in your heart that mirza sab is a liar and you cannot do anything about it…..
I will not write further untill I see that thread because there is no point if you are going to hide behind your ” moderation” to avoid the truth..

Good luck

My first question is: On this forum when you started accusing Hazrat Mirza sahib of writing that section about the law of inspection, did you already know that it was actually a newspaper article he was quoting?

Now my second question. If a book claiming to be from God talks about a prophet and his wife both losing their clothes so as to be made completely naked by a third party, and even the word “stripping” is used in this connection by some translators of that book, would you accept that book as a scripture from God?

My third question

Have you heard of the Masnavi by Maulana Jalal-ud-Din Rumi? When the British scholar R.A. Nicholson translated it into English from Persian he translated some sentences into Latin, not English, because they were so sexually explicit that ordinary readers in the West would have been shocked! Then in the 1960s a Pakistani Dr Afzal Iqbal wrote a book “The Life and Work of Jalaluddin Rumi” in which he translated them into English. This is what a reviewer of Afzal Iqbal’s book says:

“The last chapter comprises of commentary and analysis regarding some 133 lines of Mathnavi which were latinised by the esteemed Professor Nicholson for its alleged eroticism and bestiality. Dr Afzal has analysed these assertions of the Professor where he has drawn similitude between Rumi and the likes of Apuleius and Petronius. Moreover the objectionable parts are rendered by the author into English for a wider audience to judge for themselves. The author has dicussed in sufficient detail the morals behind these graphical anecdotes and suggested that Rumi is no pedlar in pornography.”

So my third question is: what do you think of the Masnavi of Rumi, which is so highly regarded by Muslims that it is known as “the Quran in the Persian language”.

Please answer my three questions.

I if I were you, I would also not post the image, instead I would give a link, its too graphic for kids to read it, and too bad to be posted as an image.

If I were, I would keep avoiding and ignoring the continuous reminders about producing the thread Nishan-e-Asmani, it would prove mirza sahab a fraud and fabricator without a doubt.

Look at the blind followers, singing the same mantra, not realizing that the eye winess account of a Hindu inviting a stranger to have sex with his wife by Mirza sahab is most disgusting thought one can present, and look, he did not forget to mention that Hindu was witnessing all that through the cracks of the doors!!!!! Is he a Muslim sscholor or a porno writer??

If you do not restore the Nishann asmani thread, this will be an evidence that you know that Mirza sb was a liar and therefore, you cannot show that.

I will wait and see when you restorte that thread then I will comment further.