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	<title>Comments on: Some charges against Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad</title>
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		<title>By: Zahid Aziz</title>
		<link>http://ahmadiyya.org/WordPress/2008/12/14/some-charges-against-hazrat-mirza-ghulam-ahmad/#comment-2397</link>
		<dc:creator>Zahid Aziz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Dec 2008 19:55:19 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>The &lt;strong&gt;only&lt;/strong&gt; purpose for collecting the funds which is mentioned in that &lt;em&gt;ishtihar &lt;/em&gt;is: &quot;for the &lt;strong&gt;wounded &lt;/strong&gt;soldiers of the British government who have been injured in the war in the Transvaal&quot;.

The first half of this &lt;em&gt;ishtihar &lt;/em&gt;makes it absolutely plain that this support was offered because the British government had saved the Muslims of the Punjab from destruction and oppression at the hands of the previous Sikh rule, and had:

&quot;...not only saved us from the clutches of those oppressors .. but granted us so much religious freedom that we can without fear propagate our religion in the best possible way.&quot;

&quot;After duty to God, the highest duty in Islam is sympathy for humanity. To express sympathy for the servants of such a benevolent government which is the guardian of our lives and properties, but above all guardian of our religion, is a work of Divine reward.&quot;

Thus, on the basis of human sympathy the Promised Messiah asked his followers to raise funds for the &lt;strong&gt;injured&lt;/strong&gt; British soldiers.

People in England who are &quot;conscientious objectors&quot;, i.e. who object to their country going to war for any reason at all on grounds of conscience (an ideology which came to prominence during the first world war), nonetheless usually give their time and effort to help the wounded soldiers, and even serve in the medical units of the armed forces.

Elsewhere the Promised Messiah has stated that by comparing what relations we have with the Boers (i.e. none at all) with what relations we have with the British, we support the latter.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The <strong>only</strong> purpose for collecting the funds which is mentioned in that <em>ishtihar </em>is: &#8220;for the <strong>wounded </strong>soldiers of the British government who have been injured in the war in the Transvaal&#8221;.</p>
<p>The first half of this <em>ishtihar </em>makes it absolutely plain that this support was offered because the British government had saved the Muslims of the Punjab from destruction and oppression at the hands of the previous Sikh rule, and had:</p>
<p>&#8220;&#8230;not only saved us from the clutches of those oppressors .. but granted us so much religious freedom that we can without fear propagate our religion in the best possible way.&#8221;</p>
<p>&#8220;After duty to God, the highest duty in Islam is sympathy for humanity. To express sympathy for the servants of such a benevolent government which is the guardian of our lives and properties, but above all guardian of our religion, is a work of Divine reward.&#8221;</p>
<p>Thus, on the basis of human sympathy the Promised Messiah asked his followers to raise funds for the <strong>injured</strong> British soldiers.</p>
<p>People in England who are &#8220;conscientious objectors&#8221;, i.e. who object to their country going to war for any reason at all on grounds of conscience (an ideology which came to prominence during the first world war), nonetheless usually give their time and effort to help the wounded soldiers, and even serve in the medical units of the armed forces.</p>
<p>Elsewhere the Promised Messiah has stated that by comparing what relations we have with the Boers (i.e. none at all) with what relations we have with the British, we support the latter.</p>
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		<title>By: T. Ijaz</title>
		<link>http://ahmadiyya.org/WordPress/2008/12/14/some-charges-against-hazrat-mirza-ghulam-ahmad/#comment-2396</link>
		<dc:creator>T. Ijaz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Dec 2008 19:10:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ahmadiyya.org/WordPress/?p=260#comment-2396</guid>
		<description>Just to answer the question if and when funds were collected for the war effort against the Boers,  indeed the Promised Messiah (as) on February 10, 1900 asked for funds to be raised. Once can read the annoucement in Majmoo&#039;a Ishtiharat</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just to answer the question if and when funds were collected for the war effort against the Boers,  indeed the Promised Messiah (as) on February 10, 1900 asked for funds to be raised. Once can read the annoucement in Majmoo&#8217;a Ishtiharat</p>
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		<title>By: Bashir</title>
		<link>http://ahmadiyya.org/WordPress/2008/12/14/some-charges-against-hazrat-mirza-ghulam-ahmad/#comment-2394</link>
		<dc:creator>Bashir</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Dec 2008 05:37:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ahmadiyya.org/WordPress/?p=260#comment-2394</guid>
		<description>ZA:

Ok, lets face the facts.  M. ali and all other members of the aaiil view HMBMA as a creator of new ideas in religion.  What could be worse of a muslim.  The only worse people in the eyes of Islam would be the bahais.  

Islam is already under serious attack.  

KK wrote that he wouldnt be surprised if HMBMA himself claimed prophethood.  KK appeared to be very much hurt from all of these alleged new conjectures of HMBMA.  

HMBMA wrote in 1915 that he believed that 1000&#039;s of prophets could appear.  HMBMA appeared to be full of these type of statements.  

Even though he never really believed exactly in those terms.  He still grossly overstated a theorem of his. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>ZA:</p>
<p>Ok, lets face the facts.  M. ali and all other members of the aaiil view HMBMA as a creator of new ideas in religion.  What could be worse of a muslim.  The only worse people in the eyes of Islam would be the bahais.  </p>
<p>Islam is already under serious attack.  </p>
<p>KK wrote that he wouldnt be surprised if HMBMA himself claimed prophethood.  KK appeared to be very much hurt from all of these alleged new conjectures of HMBMA.  </p>
<p>HMBMA wrote in 1915 that he believed that 1000&#8242;s of prophets could appear.  HMBMA appeared to be full of these type of statements.  </p>
<p>Even though he never really believed exactly in those terms.  He still grossly overstated a theorem of his. </p>
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		<title>By: Zahid Aziz</title>
		<link>http://ahmadiyya.org/WordPress/2008/12/14/some-charges-against-hazrat-mirza-ghulam-ahmad/#comment-2392</link>
		<dc:creator>Zahid Aziz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 20 Dec 2008 19:38:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ahmadiyya.org/WordPress/?p=260#comment-2392</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;What Maulana Muhammad Ali wrote was that the Qadiani Jamaat has followed the behaviour pattern of Christianity in exaggerating the status of its founder. This certainly does not amount to saying that the AMI have become a different religion from Islam like Christianity.

There are many Muslim groups whose behaviour amounts to shirk in practice but this does not mean that they belong to some other religion than Islam.

If you read about what various Muslim sects say about one another, especially in the Indo-Pakistan subcontinent, you will find that they often denounce each other as being &quot;worse in kufr than Qadianis&quot;.

The Wahhabis for long were looked upon by Hanafi (i.e. traditional Sunni) Muslims as badly as they look upon Ahmadis. They used to be thrown out of mosques for saying Amin aloud during the prayer. The ulama used to teach that if a dog or a Wahhabi passed near you while you were praying, your prayer got polluted. Maudoodi in the 1930s compared them, in their role as guardians of the Kaba, to Hindu temple keepers (&lt;em&gt;hardwaar kay mahant&lt;/em&gt;), and accused them of running the hajj as a tourist industry for the local economy of Saudi Arabia. It was the oil money in the 1970s which turned the ferociously anti-Wahhabi ulama of Pakistan into friends of the Saudis, and there came into existence this so-called Ummah which is supposed to have unanimously declared Ahmadis and Hazrat Mirza sahib as expelled from Islam.&lt;/p&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What Maulana Muhammad Ali wrote was that the Qadiani Jamaat has followed the behaviour pattern of Christianity in exaggerating the status of its founder. This certainly does not amount to saying that the AMI have become a different religion from Islam like Christianity.</p>
<p>There are many Muslim groups whose behaviour amounts to shirk in practice but this does not mean that they belong to some other religion than Islam.</p>
<p>If you read about what various Muslim sects say about one another, especially in the Indo-Pakistan subcontinent, you will find that they often denounce each other as being &#8220;worse in kufr than Qadianis&#8221;.</p>
<p>The Wahhabis for long were looked upon by Hanafi (i.e. traditional Sunni) Muslims as badly as they look upon Ahmadis. They used to be thrown out of mosques for saying Amin aloud during the prayer. The ulama used to teach that if a dog or a Wahhabi passed near you while you were praying, your prayer got polluted. Maudoodi in the 1930s compared them, in their role as guardians of the Kaba, to Hindu temple keepers (<em>hardwaar kay mahant</em>), and accused them of running the hajj as a tourist industry for the local economy of Saudi Arabia. It was the oil money in the 1970s which turned the ferociously anti-Wahhabi ulama of Pakistan into friends of the Saudis, and there came into existence this so-called Ummah which is supposed to have unanimously declared Ahmadis and Hazrat Mirza sahib as expelled from Islam.</p>
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		<title>By: Bashir</title>
		<link>http://ahmadiyya.org/WordPress/2008/12/14/some-charges-against-hazrat-mirza-ghulam-ahmad/#comment-2391</link>
		<dc:creator>Bashir</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 20 Dec 2008 17:09:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ahmadiyya.org/WordPress/?p=260#comment-2391</guid>
		<description>M.ali wrote that the AMI was exactly like christianity.  Did he not?

Christianity is a religion bulit on shirk.  What is the AMI?  

The AMI view the aaiil as a test by GOD.  GOD tested the AMI, GOD caused the split to happen.  HMBMA wrote that this type of thing was common in all religious systems.

By the way, no other islamic sect has been viewed as negatively by the ummah as the AMI has been.  

Right or wrong?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>M.ali wrote that the AMI was exactly like christianity.  Did he not?</p>
<p>Christianity is a religion bulit on shirk.  What is the AMI?  </p>
<p>The AMI view the aaiil as a test by GOD.  GOD tested the AMI, GOD caused the split to happen.  HMBMA wrote that this type of thing was common in all religious systems.</p>
<p>By the way, no other islamic sect has been viewed as negatively by the ummah as the AMI has been.  </p>
<p>Right or wrong?</p>
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		<title>By: Zahid Aziz</title>
		<link>http://ahmadiyya.org/WordPress/2008/12/14/some-charges-against-hazrat-mirza-ghulam-ahmad/#comment-2390</link>
		<dc:creator>Zahid Aziz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 20 Dec 2008 06:40:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ahmadiyya.org/WordPress/?p=260#comment-2390</guid>
		<description>I am sure that we of the AAIIL do not view the AMI as a &quot;major threat to modern day Islam&quot;. It has always been modern materialism, Christian missionary activities (now diminished), other critics of Islam, and the distorted views of orthodox Muslim clerics and fundmentalists (which provide support for the allegations against Islam), which are the great threats.

This reminds me of what a leading Lahore Ahmadi scholar said about the ass (donkey) that the Dajjal is supposed to be riding according to the prophecies. Hazrat Mirza sahib interpreted this as the railway train, the then revolutionary form of transport. Our scholar said that the ass of the Dajjal are also the orthodox Mullahs, because the Dajjal rides on them (i.e. uses their interpretations of Islam) to attack Islam. This actually has support in the Quran, 62:5, in the parable of the &quot;ass carrying books&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am sure that we of the AAIIL do not view the AMI as a &#8220;major threat to modern day Islam&#8221;. It has always been modern materialism, Christian missionary activities (now diminished), other critics of Islam, and the distorted views of orthodox Muslim clerics and fundmentalists (which provide support for the allegations against Islam), which are the great threats.</p>
<p>This reminds me of what a leading Lahore Ahmadi scholar said about the ass (donkey) that the Dajjal is supposed to be riding according to the prophecies. Hazrat Mirza sahib interpreted this as the railway train, the then revolutionary form of transport. Our scholar said that the ass of the Dajjal are also the orthodox Mullahs, because the Dajjal rides on them (i.e. uses their interpretations of Islam) to attack Islam. This actually has support in the Quran, 62:5, in the parable of the &#8220;ass carrying books&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: Bashir</title>
		<link>http://ahmadiyya.org/WordPress/2008/12/14/some-charges-against-hazrat-mirza-ghulam-ahmad/#comment-2389</link>
		<dc:creator>Bashir</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Dec 2008 21:56:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ahmadiyya.org/WordPress/?p=260#comment-2389</guid>
		<description>My intentions were never to impress upon the reader that I personally felt that HMGA had troubled the muslim community.

I was only presenting what I think is the view of the AAIIL.  M. Ali viewed the AMI as christianty in it&#039;s fullest form.  M. ali wrote that the AMI was destined for this schism.  I suggest you read M. ali&#039;s thoughts on this subject. 

KK in his book(1914), he wrote something to the effect that he wouldnt be surprised if HMBMA claimed porphethood himself.  

The fact is this, the AAIIL view the AMI as major threat to modern day Islam.  Possibly the biggest threat ever.  The AMI wanted to isolate themsleves from Islam, they did just that. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My intentions were never to impress upon the reader that I personally felt that HMGA had troubled the muslim community.</p>
<p>I was only presenting what I think is the view of the AAIIL.  M. Ali viewed the AMI as christianty in it&#8217;s fullest form.  M. ali wrote that the AMI was destined for this schism.  I suggest you read M. ali&#8217;s thoughts on this subject. </p>
<p>KK in his book(1914), he wrote something to the effect that he wouldnt be surprised if HMBMA claimed porphethood himself.  </p>
<p>The fact is this, the AAIIL view the AMI as major threat to modern day Islam.  Possibly the biggest threat ever.  The AMI wanted to isolate themsleves from Islam, they did just that. </p>
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		<title>By: Usman</title>
		<link>http://ahmadiyya.org/WordPress/2008/12/14/some-charges-against-hazrat-mirza-ghulam-ahmad/#comment-2387</link>
		<dc:creator>Usman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Dec 2008 06:34:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ahmadiyya.org/WordPress/?p=260#comment-2387</guid>
		<description>No appointed person of God achieves anything by waving a proverbial magic stick.  In fact if that was the case, then God himself could have done so.  However that is not the case.  Humans have been given a degree of free will and the messengers of God bring the message; the choice to accept the same lies with the people.  This is what the Quran says and no Hadith can alter this sunnat of Allah.  So the Promised Messiah has fulfilled his mission.  The rest is up to the Jamaat he founded and rest of the Muslim Ummah.  If they falter then this is their fault.  I think Zahid Sb. has already made this point in his posts.

Saying the Promised Messiah created a problem instead of solving problems is like saying (&lt;em&gt;Nauzubillah&lt;/em&gt;) that the Holy Prophet Muhammad brought terrorism to the world instead being the &quot;Rehmat-ul-Alamin&quot;.  In short ALL persons sent by Allah fulfill their missions.  The fruits are borne when the message is accepted by the people.....Allah in his wisdom does eventually make the truth prevail by signs, warnings, trials, tribulations etc etc.  The timing is probably known to Allah.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No appointed person of God achieves anything by waving a proverbial magic stick.  In fact if that was the case, then God himself could have done so.  However that is not the case.  Humans have been given a degree of free will and the messengers of God bring the message; the choice to accept the same lies with the people.  This is what the Quran says and no Hadith can alter this sunnat of Allah.  So the Promised Messiah has fulfilled his mission.  The rest is up to the Jamaat he founded and rest of the Muslim Ummah.  If they falter then this is their fault.  I think Zahid Sb. has already made this point in his posts.</p>
<p>Saying the Promised Messiah created a problem instead of solving problems is like saying (<em>Nauzubillah</em>) that the Holy Prophet Muhammad brought terrorism to the world instead being the &#8220;Rehmat-ul-Alamin&#8221;.  In short ALL persons sent by Allah fulfill their missions.  The fruits are borne when the message is accepted by the people&#8230;..Allah in his wisdom does eventually make the truth prevail by signs, warnings, trials, tribulations etc etc.  The timing is probably known to Allah.</p>
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		<title>By: Bashir</title>
		<link>http://ahmadiyya.org/WordPress/2008/12/14/some-charges-against-hazrat-mirza-ghulam-ahmad/#comment-2386</link>
		<dc:creator>Bashir</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Dec 2008 18:48:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ahmadiyya.org/WordPress/?p=260#comment-2386</guid>
		<description>Just to add to the above:

The aaiil are of the opinion that HMGA&#039;s mission has been severely derailed.  I think convoluted is the best word to describe his in-effectiveness.  So, in reflection the aaiil believe that `mahdi/messiah was unsuccesful and an overwhelming majority(upwards of 90%) of the mahdi/messiah&#039;s followers have raised him to the level of a 46/46 prophet, instead of a 1/46 prophet.  

Muslims could have never imagined this.  And of course I have read where M. ali explains that Ahmadiyyat totally resembles the Jews, in terms of the jews rejecting their messiah(jesus), then a group  raised that messiah to a level of god-ship.   

But, this wasnt suppose to happen.  The HP said that his ummah would be exactly like the jews, but that was until the messiah returned.... when the messiah would return he would solve all of the problems in the muslim ummah, not create another problem.  

The AMI is viewed very badly by the current ummah.  The muslim ummah believes that when jesus returns he will be the same prophet.  That&#039;s why HMGA continously wrote that, &quot;no prophet new or &lt;em&gt;&lt;strong&gt;OLD&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;/em&gt; can appear&quot;.  He stressed &lt;em&gt;&lt;strong&gt;OLD,&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;/em&gt; the muslim ummah believed that an OLD prophet was to re-appear, i.e. JESUS.  

But, the AMI has taken this one step further, HMBMA wrote that 1000&#039;s(circa 1915) of prophets could and can appear.  This is what the ummah rejects.  This is why the ummah is so upset with the AMI.  And rightfully so.  

In Chapter 4 verse 69 it is written that if muslims obey the HP they can be among the prophets, siddiqs, saleh&#039;s and shaheeds.  This is what the AMI shows as proof for the continuance of prophethood. 

 But what kind of prophets are referred to?  Is it law-bearing or non-law bearing?  The Quran doesnt specify.  The Quran never differentiated between the two.  This quaranic verse can be misconstrued to mean that even law-bearing prophets can appear.
This proves that in Chapter 33 Verse 40, law bearing or non-law bearing doesnt make a difference.  All prophets are the same.  According to the terminology of ALLAH.

Historical fact, this verse(chp. 4) was revealed after the battle of UHUD.  Muslims disobeyed the HP, and almost lost the war.  To prevent this from happening again, GOD offered motivation.  Most of the muslim warriors could never achieve ay of those ranks.  Most of the muslim warriors werent great people(my opinion).  But GOD motivated them.  This is just like jihad, a temporal injunction.  

Picture this:  All the muslims who obeyed the HP during wartime were promised to be able to sit with adam, aaron, joshua, etc etc.  But 2 months later came the famous Chapter 33 verse 40, i.e. khatamun nabiyyen.  

So did god clarify his position or not?  The AMI should ponder on this.   </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just to add to the above:</p>
<p>The aaiil are of the opinion that HMGA&#8217;s mission has been severely derailed.  I think convoluted is the best word to describe his in-effectiveness.  So, in reflection the aaiil believe that `mahdi/messiah was unsuccesful and an overwhelming majority(upwards of 90%) of the mahdi/messiah&#8217;s followers have raised him to the level of a 46/46 prophet, instead of a 1/46 prophet.  </p>
<p>Muslims could have never imagined this.  And of course I have read where M. ali explains that Ahmadiyyat totally resembles the Jews, in terms of the jews rejecting their messiah(jesus), then a group  raised that messiah to a level of god-ship.   </p>
<p>But, this wasnt suppose to happen.  The HP said that his ummah would be exactly like the jews, but that was until the messiah returned&#8230;. when the messiah would return he would solve all of the problems in the muslim ummah, not create another problem.  </p>
<p>The AMI is viewed very badly by the current ummah.  The muslim ummah believes that when jesus returns he will be the same prophet.  That&#8217;s why HMGA continously wrote that, &#8220;no prophet new or <em><strong>OLD</strong></em> can appear&#8221;.  He stressed <em><strong>OLD,</strong></em> the muslim ummah believed that an OLD prophet was to re-appear, i.e. JESUS.  </p>
<p>But, the AMI has taken this one step further, HMBMA wrote that 1000&#8242;s(circa 1915) of prophets could and can appear.  This is what the ummah rejects.  This is why the ummah is so upset with the AMI.  And rightfully so.  </p>
<p>In Chapter 4 verse 69 it is written that if muslims obey the HP they can be among the prophets, siddiqs, saleh&#8217;s and shaheeds.  This is what the AMI shows as proof for the continuance of prophethood. </p>
<p> But what kind of prophets are referred to?  Is it law-bearing or non-law bearing?  The Quran doesnt specify.  The Quran never differentiated between the two.  This quaranic verse can be misconstrued to mean that even law-bearing prophets can appear.<br />
This proves that in Chapter 33 Verse 40, law bearing or non-law bearing doesnt make a difference.  All prophets are the same.  According to the terminology of ALLAH.</p>
<p>Historical fact, this verse(chp. 4) was revealed after the battle of UHUD.  Muslims disobeyed the HP, and almost lost the war.  To prevent this from happening again, GOD offered motivation.  Most of the muslim warriors could never achieve ay of those ranks.  Most of the muslim warriors werent great people(my opinion).  But GOD motivated them.  This is just like jihad, a temporal injunction.  </p>
<p>Picture this:  All the muslims who obeyed the HP during wartime were promised to be able to sit with adam, aaron, joshua, etc etc.  But 2 months later came the famous Chapter 33 verse 40, i.e. khatamun nabiyyen.  </p>
<p>So did god clarify his position or not?  The AMI should ponder on this.   </p>
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		<title>By: Bashir</title>
		<link>http://ahmadiyya.org/WordPress/2008/12/14/some-charges-against-hazrat-mirza-ghulam-ahmad/#comment-2385</link>
		<dc:creator>Bashir</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 17 Dec 2008 22:30:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://ahmadiyya.org/WordPress/?p=260#comment-2385</guid>
		<description>I think that Christianity must be defeated.  I think the best way is through argument, not physical war.  I think HMGA should have accomplished this in his lifetime.  I think muslims should educate themselves.  That is the only way to defeat christianity.  HMGA gave us a 300 time limit for the death of christianity.  Thats a long time.  Hadith reports did not give this impression.  

A researcher must observe how India is a better country than Pakistan.  Both countries were given independence at the same time.  But look how India is, then contrast that with Pakistan.  

The muslims themselves are in a far worser situation now than in 1880 to 1908.  At least in 1908 the muslims had an empire, i.e. The Ottoman Empire.   

The brits divided the muslims, then conquered them.  And Islam hasnt been the same ever since.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think that Christianity must be defeated.  I think the best way is through argument, not physical war.  I think HMGA should have accomplished this in his lifetime.  I think muslims should educate themselves.  That is the only way to defeat christianity.  HMGA gave us a 300 time limit for the death of christianity.  Thats a long time.  Hadith reports did not give this impression.  </p>
<p>A researcher must observe how India is a better country than Pakistan.  Both countries were given independence at the same time.  But look how India is, then contrast that with Pakistan.  </p>
<p>The muslims themselves are in a far worser situation now than in 1880 to 1908.  At least in 1908 the muslims had an empire, i.e. The Ottoman Empire.   </p>
<p>The brits divided the muslims, then conquered them.  And Islam hasnt been the same ever since.</p>
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</rss>
