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November 8th, 2009

Accusations made by Shahid Kamal Ahmad in Iqra TV program

Rashid Jahangiri has informed us in a comment elsewhere on this blog that Shahid Kamal Ahmad in his appearance on Iqra TV accused Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad sahib of “cursing” 1000 times in a book in Arabic, and Rashid asked: I will be thankful if Dr. Zahid Aziz or someone else can tell us context of these “1000 curses”.

It is the accuser who should provide details of his accusation. For example, the prosecution in a murder case cannot present the case by saying: “The accused has committed murder, but we don’t know who he murdered, when he committed the murder, where he did it and why he did it”!

Shahid Kamal Ahmad should show us the place where Hazrat Mirza sahib wrote “curse” a thousand times. We will then demand that he present just twenty lines of the preceding Urdu text and twelve lines of following Urdu text, and declare that according to his present beliefs as a Muslim the persons mentioned in that text are innocent and do not deserve curse.

17 Responses to “Accusations made by Shahid Kamal Ahmad in Iqra TV program”

  1. @ Dr. Zahid Aziz:
    I posted your above post on Shahid Kamal Ahmad blog. MOST LIKELY HE WILL DELETE IT.

    Here is my posting stamp:
    ——————————————————–
    Rashid November 9, 2009 at 7:11 am
    FOR SHAHID KAMAL AHMAD:
    PLEASE ANSWER THE CHALLENGE IN THIS POST. Thanks.
     
    COPIED FROM LAHORE AHMADIYYA BLOG
    ————————————
    Shahid Kamal Ahmad cannot read Urdu. I hope he can gather enough honesty to take help of someone who can read Urdu.
     


  2. Email to Dr. Rauf Parekh
     
    Dr. Parekh published an article in Dawn newspaper issue November 9, 2009.
    I sent him following email.
    Link to Dawn article:
    http://www.dawn.com/wps/wcm/connect/dawn-content-library/dawn/news/art-culture/03-an-authentic-readable-biography-of-iqbal-is-needed-ss-07

    Respected Dr. Rauf Parekh:
    Assalamu Alikum,
     
    In your article ‘Authentic, readable biography of Iqbal needed’ published in Dawn newspaper November 09, 2009. You wrote: Also, Javed Iqbal, he says, could not refute forcefully enough the impression that Iqbal had a leaning towards or sympathy with the Qadianis as the fact is quite contrary to it. (The wrong impression was created in his book Mazloom Iqbal by Ejaz Ahmed, Iqbal’s nephew, who had converted to Qadiani beliefs).
     
    I will just refer you to following books. I am sure you will like to read further on Iqbal before making a sweeping statement.
     
    I sent him links to following articles:
    1)      Dr. Sir Muhammad Iqbal and the Ahmadiyya Movement
    by Maulana Hafiz Sher Mohammad
    2) Sir Muhammad Iqbal and the Lahore Ahmadiyya Movement:
    by Shahid Aziz Sahib
    3) Sir Muhammad Iqbal’s Statement re The Qadianis:
    by Maulana Muhammad Ali
    4) Khatam-e-Nabuwwat aur Allama Iqbal:
    by Dr. Khurshid Ahmad Tareen
    5) Tahreek-e Ahmadiyyat aur Allama Iqbal:
    by Syed Akhtar Hussain Gillani
    6) Dr. Muhammad Iqbal and Maulana Abul Kalam Azad on the Ahmadiyyah Movement: by Maulana Muhammad Ali
    7) Tributes Paid to the Lahore Ahmadiyya Movement in Islam and Maulana Muhammad Ali
    8 ) How I Became an Ahmadi,
    by Dr. Basharat Ahmad Sahib
    9) Miscellaneous:
    Different articles in different organs and newspapers affiliated with AAIIL and Woking mission.


  3. The article about Iqbal’s biographies states at the beginning:

    “Especially of late, there have been efforts to vandalise Iqbal legacy and many irrelevant questions raised about his life, philosophy and poetry. Sahi, a monthly published from Karachi, has in particular tried to blast Iqbal’s personality and image.”

    I wonder if the “irrelevant questions raised about his life” relate to certain events which people used to talk about widely.

    Is it only allowed to “blast” the personality and image of Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad?

    Iqbal was a fervent supporter of Kemal Attaturk and defended his policies. What do our Ulama think about that? You can read this in Iqbal’s booklet Islam and Ahmadism (see this link to the last sections of it). He writes:

    Pandit Jawahar Lal Nehru thinks that Turkey had ceased to be a Muslim country. He does not seem to realize that the question whether a person or a community has ceased to be a member of Islam is, from the Muslim point of view, a purely legal question and must be decided in view of the structural principles of Islam. As long as a person is loyal to the two basic principles of Islam, i.e., the Unity of God and Finality of the Holy Prophet, not even the strictest Mullah can turn him outside the pale of Islam even though his interpretations of the Law or of the text of the Quran are believed to be erroneous. But perhaps Pandi Jawahar Lal Nehru has in his mind the supposed or real innovations which the Ata-Turk has introduced. Let us for a moment examine these.

    He then goes on to defend all Ataturk’s measures, such as the abolition of polygamy and banning of the traditional dress as being measures that Islam allows a Muslim government to take (the traditional dress is the same garb which our Ulama today lay great stress on as compulsory for women).


  4. Reply from Dr. Rauf Parekh.

    Today I received following reply:

    “dear sir
    incidentally, I have read some books on Iqbal especially regarding his beliefs and recently a 600-page book has clearified all the mist.in the past too there have been such books. please face the fact.
    thanks
    Rauf”
     
    Following is my 2nd email to him:
     
    Respected Dr. Rauf Parekh:
    Aslam Alikum,
     
    My father passed away in 2005 at age of 98. He himself collected donations for Lahore Ahmadiyya Movement from Dr. Sir Muhammad Iqbal. Moreover he attended Salana Jalsa (annual gathering) of Lahore Ahmadiyya Movement, in which Dr. Muhammad Iqbal presided the speeches sessions. Actually, I have seen photos of those occasions in which Dr. M. Iqbal presided. Anyways, I wish you had read one article by Maulana Muhammad Ali of Lahore Ahmadiyya Movement:

    Dr Iqbal’s Statement re The Qadianis:
    by Maulana Muhammad Ali

    [Dr. Sir Muhammad Iqbal, who was once a great admirer of the Ahmadiyyah Movement, issued in 1936 a long statement re the Qadianis. It was motivated mainly by political reasons and the views of the extremist Qadiani section were made the basis of this statement. Maulana Muhammad ‘Ali replied to it and explained the Lahore Ahmadiyyah standpoint and threw light on the correct beliefs and mission of the Founder of the Ahmadiyyah Movement in Islam The reply first appeared in the weekly Light, Lahore, and later in the form of a booklet entitled Dr Sir Muhammad Iqbal’s Statement re the Qadianis. Another detailed commentary was made in Urdu by Syed Akhtar Husain Gilani entitled ‘Allama Iqbal aur Tahrik-i Ahmadiiyat. — Editor]

    Link to: Dr Sir Muhammad Iqbal’s Statement re The Qadianis
     
    Thank God. Every man has to be answerable for him; what he says and writes on the Day of Judgment to Allah SWT.
     
    Regards,


  5. I had been following the blog of Mr. Shahid and got involved in discussions there to refute the accusation of the 1000 curses and give LAM position on certain matters. The full extent of the discussion that took place is there on the blog for those who are interested, but the end result has been quite interesting. After much posting and many accusations, I was asked to justify my beliefs on death of Jesus and I also offered to discuss the 1000 curses accusation.

    Regarding 1,000 curses, I reiterated Rashid’s demand that the accuser should show context. This they refused to do, while at the same time citing various reasons why this was a “lunatic” act. Someone posted a link to HMGA’s book “Noor ul Haq” where the 1000 curses occur. I argued that any accusation based on a quote by HMGA should be accompanied by the accused stating that he/she has himself/herself read the quote in context. This they did not seem agreeable to. Finally I said that ok regarding 1000 curses I will start from the beginning (meaning going back to the statement of the first person who made this accusation) to refute this allegation. I had earlier also said that I will discuss one allegation, and then only move on to the next after settling the first one.

    Regarding death of Jesus, I stated that I will argue from the Quran and Hadith, giving Quran the preference if there is a contradiction.

    This is the final reply I received.

    QUOTE

    “My offer of engaging in a debate with Osman is hereby withdrawn.
    He has done nothing but evaded questions, hid behind opinions of other people whilst witholding his own beliefs and opinions and continued with what Rashid has been doing in defending a charlatan and a liar,albeit in a more cunning and calculated manner.
    My sincere intention was to clear up some of his apparent confusion but alas I now get the feeling that no confusion exists and that he is indeed a staunch supporter of MGA. Allah knows best. If this is the case I pray Allah guides him to the truth.
    I end with the words of Allah most High most Great
    ‘Unto you your religion, and unto me my religion. ‘
    Al-Kafiroon verse 6”

    UNQUOTE

    The gentleman in his next post stated

    QUOTE

    “I advise all other Muslim brothers not to waste too much time on this cult.
    The first ten days of Dhu’l-Hijjah, which Allaah has preferred over all other days of the year are almost upon us and it will be a crying shame if we waste these best of days in refuting non-muslims……

    [For full quote, see this link.]

    UNQUOTE

    I don’t think I need to say anything as the quotes are self explanatory.


  6. i dont care what anyone says whether they are Qadiany or Lahories they are the same to me they follow the same leader and their aqida is the same the only diffrence is the Qadianies believe that Mrza was a subordinate prophet and the Lahories dont but again this is a lie coz Mirza did claim to prophethood in a book written circa 1901 the Lahories are not active as their Qadiany counterparts the split occoured after the death of nuruddin in 1914

    ———-

    after the outcome of Pakistans national asssembley of  1974 the Qadiany and the Lahories were both outcast out side of the pale of islam and now they are asking for sympathy from muslims this was the punishment from Allah if u follow a charlaton then the greater ummah will not accept your call i ask the Lahories to abandon your Mujadid [Mirza] and accept islam u have nothing to lose u are a minoroties of minoroties its better to join the manistream than be a outcast community


  7. In response to Shahin (“its better to join the mainstream than be a outcast community”), my personal experience is that people in Pakistan, and Pakistanis abroad, have often advised us that we should join the mainstream sunni Muslims because otherwise: we will not get invited to social functions, weddings, etc., we will suffer in our jobs, professions and businesses because of people’s opposition, etc.

    Just ponder over these reasons they give us! Are these reasons given in the Quran or Hadith for leaving your beliefs?

    Sunni Muslims of Pakistan have even advised us that it is all right if we continue to hold our Ahmadi beliefs within our hearts, but that outwardly we should declare that we don’t hold those beliefs. How “Islamic” this advice is, you can judge for yourselves.

    And how do we “join the mainstream”? Is it by acknowledging belief in the Kalima, practising the five pillars of Islam, believing in the Holy Quran? No, because we do that already. Perhaps you would care to tell us on what basis people recognise you as a mainstream Muslim.

    I personally have known people in Pakistan who were told in their departments in which they worked: you have to accept/give bribes because the mainstream indulges in bribery. They were told: If you work honestly, you will be made an outcast by your colleagues. This is not a joke. These are actual incidents.


  8. ===========YOU HAVE TO ACCEPT/GIVE BRIBES==========
    brother Zahid Aziz i think u have met some corrupt minded muslims who have given u wrong advise now u think that all muslims are the same brother dont judge all of us with the same brush look there is no such thing as perfect muslim but your community is like a thorn sticking out from the side sorry to say that but that is the truth your co religionist [Qadianies] are even worst look i have no hatred towards u or your community but Mirza did make some ludacrise cliames which your community try to push to the side if u are honest then u wouldnt follow someone of that calabre u would rather run a mile than follow him brother if u truly love Allah and his Rassul[saw] then u would relise that following a charlaton like him will end up in hell fire brother Shahid K Ahmad was a Qadiany but now he relised that he was in a false islam and he reverted to the ummah of RassuAlllah[saw] and now i ask u and your community to do the same are u willing to take up the offer?


  9. I will ignore the fact that you misunderstood my statement about bribery.

    I note that you have addressed me as follows: “if you truly love Allah and His rasul [saw]…”

    This means that you regard me as a Muslim. It is only when you address a Muslim, who you think has gone wrong, that you can say to him: If you love Allah and the Rasul, please give up this wrong.

    A Muslim will never address a non-Muslim (e.g. Christian, Hindu etc.) and say: “If you love Allah and the Rasul,…”

    It is quite satisfactory for us if you regard us as Muslims, even though you may regard us as among those groups of Muslims who have gone astray.


  10. Zahid Aziz
    brother i did not misunderstand u infact i corrected your statements do i regard u as muslim well ?
    well  brother iam not a scholars in islam but i would consider as a brother in humanity and your community did consider us mislims when Mirzas son Bashiruddin declared us all non muslims but again why do u follow him when infact he made the claim to prophethood  
    dont u see that he was a charlaton and he did say in one of his books that he was SUPEROIR to RasuLALLAH [nawuzbillah] and he said islam was a CURSED religion & he was the reancarnated Jesus [A.S]ect ect thats why muslims still consider your community as outcast if only u can see the beauty of real islam and the teaching of rassuALLAH[saw] and leave aside a charlatan like Mirza and his idol talk this man and his Qadiany followers have tarnished the image of muslims and Islam they portray as VILLAINS when infact its the opposite look they do not even consider u as thier brethrens so which is bro ?


  11. I have seen that people like to make general, sweeping kind of statements.  And repeat the same accusations over and over again.  I think most of the time people read material from the many anti-ahmadi websites, and do not bother to actually try to learn the other side of the story.  This is quite evident from thier posts. 

    I have on a couple of occassions tried to engage persons on the anti-ahmadi sites to “discuss” the allegations that have been made on their web pages.  It usually starts with a lot of  “loose talk” and then once I manage to pinpoint the issue exactly and attempt to use the Quran to verify or refute it, I run into a wall of silence on the other end.

    Regarding the invitation by Shahin for us to join Islam, the response by Dr. ZA reminded me of a small incident:

    This was narrated by my late grandfather who ran into an elder of the Jamaat-e-Islami at a common friend’s residence.  The friend introduced my grandfather as from the Lahore Ahmadiyya Community.  As the Jammat-e-Islami person was well known, there was bit of awkwardness.  To diffuse this my grandfather offered his hand to the Jammat-e-Islami person and jokingly said, “I am ready to accept Islam at your hands today.”  The person just smiled and pushed his hand away saying ” Leave it (There is no need), these are just political matters.”  Reader can draw their own conclusion as to what this person meant!


  12. In 1999, and 2000 I had a few email exchanges with Dr. Rashid of ‘Anti-Ahmadiyya Movement’ owner/ creator of first anti-ahmadiyya website on internet alhafeez.org
     
    Of course he invited me to Islam. So I asked him 2 questions:
    1)      You have used and quoted literature of Haqiqat Passand Party (you call them Realists) in your articles on your website. Can you tell me, why these HPP people, who were GREAT ENEMIES of Mirza Mahmud Ahmad, Qadianis Khalifa 2, were STAUNCH FOLLOWERS of Mujaddid of 14th Islamic century i.e. Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad sahib?
     
    2)      You want me/us i.e. members of Lahore Ahmadiyya Movement to become Muslim. My question is what i/ we have to do to become Muslim? You know they all are reciters of Kalima-I-Shahada, they offers prayers, they fast, they pay Zakat, they do Hajj of Khana-Kabbah when ever it is possible for them.
     
    Needless to say Dr. Rashid NEVER answered my questions. But when I insisted, he replied, ‘Salam to those who accept Hiddaya’. Period.

    Funny thing is that Dr. Rashid continues to invite Ahmadis (I suppose he means both Lahori Ahmadis and Qadianis) towards Islam. This invitation he extended in a recently uploaded youtube video by former Qadiani Shahid Kamal Ahmad (who has now become “Muslim”. I wonder what rituals he went through to become Muslim):
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cf1pChIgR6s
     
    It is height of dishonesty of anti-ahmadiyya people, that they keep inviting us i.e. those who consider HMGA a Mujaddid of 14th Islamic century, towards “Islam”, but can’t tell us what we have to do, which we have not been doing, to become a “Muslim”.


  13. Shahin,
    I am confused and need your help in understanding just one point, and I am sorry if you have already said it but I am unable to find an exact answer from your post above.

    Do you consider us (members of the Lahore Ahmadiyya community) as Muslims?
    Can you give a simple yes or no answer.

    Thanks.


  14. @Usman

    Could you please tell us name of that Jamaat-e-Islami well known person? He must be a political and public figure. Thanks.


  15.  Tariq
    brother look iam not a scholar of the Deen so i cant give u a  fatwa to say if  u are a muslim or not but i did make it clear that your community is close with the mainstream islam u do not recognise Mirza as a subordinate prophet but a MUJADDID which is ok but then again Mirza did make the claimant to prophethood which is buffling to muslims coz ur community deny that he did when it is evident in his writings from 1901 what i want to find out is that did he make the claim or not ?  if he did then it is CLEAR that he was a CHARLATON and a LAIR coz the Quran clearly says Muhammad [SAW] was the Last Seal of the prophet [Q .33.40] and no new prophet is to come and did he say that he was superior than RasuALLAH and do u accept such ludacrise statements brother ? and was islam a CURSED religion coz thats what he really said about islam look sorry if i sound a bit negative but i want to hear ur side of the story


  16. @Rashid

    I don’t know the name of the person as I was not told.  As my grandfather is no longer alive, there is no way to find out either.

    @Shahin

    It is our belief that HMGA did not claim prophethood: before, during, or after 1901 uptil his death.  This, and all other things that you have said are not new accusations.  Can you tell me if you got this information after reading a few of HMGA’s books or from an anti-ahmadi website.  And a scanned image of a page does not constitute reading a book. 

    Your answer would make it easier to know the level of your knowledge or ignorance about HMGA.

    To know what the author of any book is saying it is not enough to quote a sentence without due reference to the context (And context for a religious personality who has authored over 80 publications is both to the immediate text, as well as to the related text of his other books)  and pass a verditct.  This is what the enemies of Islam do to defame our religion. You need to have read the book, or at least a chapter, or at the very least the entire relevant section of the quoted book to find out the actual intent of the author before labeling him a charlatan, liar etc. Have you done any of this?


  17. March 2nd, 2010 at 1:42 pm
    From Zahid Aziz:

    To Rashid, Usman:

    I was given to understand that it was Mian Tufail Muhammad, deputy Ameer of the Jamaat-i-Islami, to whom the late Mian Fazl-i-Ahmad sahib (Usman’s maternal grandfather), said: “Please make me a Muslim”, and he replied: “Let it go, Mian sahib; all these are political matters”.


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