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March 6th, 2011

Javed Ahmad Ghamidi sahib on Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad sahib

Submitted by Rashid Jahangiri.


Pakistani Islamic scholar Javed Ahmad Ghamidi sahib EXONERATES Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad sahib [HMGA] from making claim of prophethood. And holds Qadiani Khalifa 2 Mirza Mahmud Ahmad the so-called Qadiani’s “Musleh Mauood” for creating misunderstanding about HMGA.

Please listen to following 8 parts lecture of Ghamidi sahib on you tube.

Part 1:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FkBTTTRo8Fw

Part 2:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NbaYPWj1aJs&feature=related

Part 3:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mxzj0uoHV4Y&feature=related

Part 4:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OKqCN0Kmd9o&feature=related

Part 5:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zpCaBCPoRGg&feature=related

Part 6:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vTyUj0FmN6o&feature=related

Part 7:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Rm-Gy4reOs&feature=related

Part 8:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aU0oXR1B_aI&feature=related

20 Responses to “Javed Ahmad Ghamidi sahib on Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad sahib”

  1. Second constitutional amendment in Pakistani constitution is based on WRONG understanding that Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad sahib [HMGA] made claim of prophethood. Whereas Javed Ahmad Ghamidi sahib states that HMGA sahib NEVER made any such claim and it is all due to HMGA’s son Mirza Mahmud Ahmad that misunderstanding about HMGA is prevailing in Pakistani society, in particular.
     
    Currently Javed Ghamidi sahib is living in exile in Indonesia. I hope the time comes when he feels safe to return to Pakistan. It would be nice if someone in Pakistan could file a lawsuit against respected Javed Ghamidi sahib for stating which contradicts the basis on which 2nd constitutional amendment is based. This way respected Javed Ghamidi will testify in court of law that HMGA sahib NEVER made any claim of prophethood. And court can give judgment in favor of respected Javed Ghamidi sahib. This will establish the fact that bases of 2nd constitutional amendment is based on LIES.


  2. March 9th, 2011 at 5:43 am
    From Abid Aziz:

    1. I think his comments about making a claim of ‘Maseel e Masih’ after having consultations with Hazrat Molana Nur ud din needs some clarification from scholars of our jammat. This is kind of new allegation (if we consider it an allegation).

    2. If we accept his argument about the termination of Wahy and Ilham then how would we explain the writings and sayings of prominent saints of Muslim Ummah in which they have been claiming to have received revelation.
    Will we consider them as liars or mentally deranged persons? God forbid. What other logical explanation can be provided?


  3. March 9th, 2011 at 8:33 pm
    From Zahid Aziz:

    Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad’s claim of likeness to Jesus, and the likeness of the nature of his mission to that of Jesus’ mission, goes back to Barahin Ahmadiyya. See B.A., Part 4, page 499 of original edition. Then there are the two ishtihars right at the beginning of Majmua Ishtiharat (v. 1, p. 20 and p. 24 of Qadiani Jamaat edition of 1986) where he writes about his close likeness to the Messiah.

    The above writings were published in 1884/1885. Maulana Nur-ud-Din was attracted to come and find Hazrat Mirza when he read one of his announcements about Barahin Ahmadiyya in which Hazrat Mirza sahib declared that God spoke to him, and he then sent for the parts of B.A. so far published. The Maulana would have met him in 1884 most probably, and not before 1883. It seems unlikely that he met him before the writings mentioned above in which Hazrat Mirza had already strongly spoken of being the like of Jesus.

    Even supposing that he had met him before the above writings, we also find in B.A. Part 3, published 1882, that he wrote: “About ten years ago I saw the Messiah in a dream. The Messiah and I ate from the same dish. While eating, the two of us were as informal and loving as two blood brothers, or as two close friends and companions of very long standing.” (p. 253) He then mentions a Muslim saint in the same dream who was telling Jesus about the spiritual grades that Allah has destined for this Umma.

    This statement was published definitely before Hazrat Mirza sahib had met Maulana Nur-ud-Din, and obviously could not have “consulted” him.

    As to having consultations before making a claim, would anyone (any Muslim at any rate) put it this way about the Holy Prophet Muhammad that he had “consultations” with his wife Khadija and her relative Waraqa bin Naufil before claiming to be a prophet? Yet he did speak to them about his experience and they gave their opinion about what it meant.


  4. One kind of audience of HMGA was atheists. To convince them of existence-of-God and proof of living-God he published his ilhams and divine communications. And foretold future events. If Javed Ghamidi sahib doesn’t accept HMGA’s ilhams, then he has to come-up with some better arguments/ proofs to convince atheists.


  5. Salam! Will anyone please refute Mr Ghamidi’s arguments about the termination of divine inspiration from Quran or Hadith? & brother Rashid, Ghamdi’s videos for atheists can be seen here: 
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3eg54LevVFM&feature=BFa&list=PL7FE8FA71F369F70A&lf=results_video
    etc.


  6. Dear brother Nabeel:
     
    Welcome to the forum. One mission of HMGA was to prove to atheist ‘Existence of Allah’. His one major argument in this regard was that Allah communicates with humans, more frequently with His chosen ones i.e. pious Muslims, but also with others whom He decides to guide. In this regard MGA mentioned his own experiences. He wrote extensively on this subject and in many of his books. I personally have not read all of his books and none recently. I am sure others have read more of HMGA works. I will suggest you to please post Ghamdi sahib’s arguments, in termination of divine inspiration, individually. This will help you in understanding his arguments and help us in understanding his arguments. This way it will be easier for everyone to stay focused.
     


  7. In view of Ghamidi sahib’s eminent scholarship and his obvious integrity and sincerity, I wouldn’t like to use the term “refute” in expressing disagreement with him on this issue. For our position on the continuity of revelation, please refer to the following two sections of evidence that we presented in the Cape Town court case in 1985:

    Revelation in Islam
    and supplementary material on this issue (not in the evidence).

    Revelation and Hazrat Mirza’s claim
    and supplementary material on this issue (not in the evidence).


  8. Ghamidi sahab ko TV par regular daikha laiken un ki yeh baat kahen na daikhi na sunee. aap k khayaal say wo kon si sab say bari wajah hai k tamam dosray muslims mil k aap k sakht khilaaf hein?


  9. Lahore attack may 2010 say phehlay mujahay to yeh bhi nahi maloom tha k Lahori jammat bhi mojood hai. Mera taaluq aik sunni deobandi family say hai jahan yeh sakhti hai k doosray firqay ya mazhab ki katab khod say na parho balkay jo ulema bataen sirf wohi suno. mein 2010 say aap k khamosh qari hon balkay aap ka blog chup kar read karta hn. kuch samjah aata hai aur kuch nahi. laiken itna zaroor lagta hai k aap log buhat educated aur wasee mutala kartay hein.


  10. October 7th, 2013 at 5:12 am
    From Rashid Jahangiri:

    Azizam Arif bhai,

    Issi liay katay hein Allah SWT bazzahir mukhalifeen kay buray ikdam mein bhee musbat phelou nikal datay hein. May 2010 mein Qadianinion kay katal-e-aam mein Allah SWT nay aap ko Lahori-Ahmadiyyon ka baray mein mutala farmaya.

     


  11. apni koi urdu website bataye?

     


  12. October 7th, 2013 at 7:09 pm
    From Rashid Jahangiri:

    Azizam Arif,

    Maloom nahein, aap Pakistan mein Lahori-Ahmadiyyon ki website jis mein Urdu aur Arbi mein kutab aur akhbarat hein par sakatay hein kay nahein. Nechay deay howay link per jaaeay:

    http://aaiil.org/urdu/books/mainbook.shtml

    http://aaiil.org/text/hq/hqmain.shtml

    http://aaiil.org/text/articles/artmain.shtml

    Sukaria.


  13. kia aap pakistan say bahar hein?

    links open nahi ho rahay.

    فرقہ بندی ہے کہیں اور کہیں ذاتیں ہیں
    کیا زمانے میں پنپنے کی یہی باتیں ہیں

    Laiken youtube kholnay k tareqay say website complete open nahi hoi hai. agar aap munasib samjhein to book"Aaeen-e-Pakistan aur Musalmaan Firqa Ahmadiyya" , "Ahmadi Musalmaan Hein — Janoobee Africa kee Supreme Court ka Faisila" mujhay email kar dein.

    میرے اوپر کے سوال کا جواب نہیں آیا؟

    aap k khayaal say wo kon si sab say bari wajah hai k tamam dosray muslims mil k aap k sakht khilaaf hein? 


  14. October 9th, 2013 at 3:29 am
    From Rashid Jahangiri:

    Arif bhai,

    The reason Pakistani Muslims oppose us because Lahori-Ahmadis as a Jamaat are the ONLY Muslims in the world who believe in absolute finality of prophethood on Holy Prophet Muhammad SAWS.

    Lahori Muslims believe that NO NEW OR OLD PROPHET can come after Holy Prophet Muhammad SAWS.

    Pakistani Muslims do NOT like Lahori Muslims,  because they [Pakistani Muslims] do NOT believe in absolute finality of prophethood on Holy Prophet Muhammad SAWS. Pakistani Muslims believe Isa AS will come after Holy Prophet Muhammad SAWS.

    Qadianis do NOT like Lahori Ahmadis, beacuse they [Qadianis] do NOT believe in absolute finality of prophethood on Holy Prophet Muhammad SAWS. Qadianis believe Mirza Ghulam Ahmad sahib was a prophet who came after Holy Prophet Muhammad SAWS.


  15. October 9th, 2013 at 6:25 am
    From Zahid Aziz:

    Janab Arif sahib, jin kitabon ka ap ne zikar kia hai, meharbani se zail ke link try karain:

    Aaeen-e-Pakistan aur Musalmaan Firqa Ahmadiyya

    Ahmadi Musalmaan Hein — Janoobee Africa kee Supreme Court ka Faisila

    Mundarja bala links se ap in kitabon ki pdf files hasil kar saktay hain.

    Ap ne sawal poochha: aap k khayaal say wo kon si sab say bari wajah hai k tamam dosray muslims mil k aap k sakht khilaaf hein? 

    Sab say bari wajah to yeh hai kay hamaray mutallaq jhoota propaganda kia jata hai, jis ka jawab danay ki hamain Pakistan main qanooni tor per ijazat nahin. Jhootay propaganda ki ayk misal to ap isi blog per meray ayk hal kay comment main parh saktay hain, dekhain yeh link.

    Us link per ap Urdu main mera khat dekh saktay hain jo main ne Jang (London) ko likha. Jaisa main ne wahan zikar kia hai, Jang ne mera khat nahin chhapa jab tak main nain akhbarat kay shikayat kay idara main (Press Complaints Commission of UK) unkay khilaf shikayat nahin ki. Ap sochain ke agar UK main Pakistani akhbarat kay ta`sub (prejudice) ka yeh hal hai to Pakistan main kya hal ho ga.

    Ayk aur Pakistani akhbarat main jhoota propaganda ki misal is link per dekhain.

    In do misaloon main haqaiq (yani facts) kay mutallaq jhoot hai.

    Ap kay sawal main ilfaz hain "tamam dosray Muslims". Pakistan ka qanoon "tamam Muslims" ko majboor karta hai kay wo official form per sign karain kay "main Ahmadion ko ghair musalmaan samajta hoon". Is statement ko aisay logon nay bhi majboor ho kar sign kia hoa hai jo Ahmadion ko musalmaan samajtay hain.


  16. aaiil.org بلاک ہے

    صرف ahmadiyya.org open ہو رہی ہے جو مجھےwikipedia سے ملی 


  17. Is blocking se to ap per meri bat sabat ho gai ho gi kay hamain Pakistan main jawab danay ki ijazat nahin.

    Main ne woh kitabain ahmadiyya.org per copy kar de hain. Try ki jeeay:

    Aaeen-e-Pakistan aur Musalmaan Firqa Ahmadiyya

    Ahmadi Musalmaan Hein — Janoobee Africa kee Supreme Court ka Faisila

    English version of my comment above:

    Dear Arif sahib, the fact that you say aaiil.org is blocked only proves what I said in my earlier comment that in Pakistan we are not allowed by law to reply to false propaganda against us.

    Since, fortunately, you have found that ahmadiyya.org is not blocked, I have copied the books which you wanted from aaiil.org to ahmadiyya.org.


  18. Aaeen-e-Pakistan aur Musalmaan Firqa Ahmadiyya

    کتاب کے صفحہ43،44 پرمولاناجوہر ،مولاناسراراحمد ،مولانا مودودئ ،کے اقتباسات کے حوالےتحریرکردیں؟

     


  19. I am delighted to help you with these references.

    Maudoodi:

    Read here (yahan parhain) the letter written by Maudoodi in which he wrote: "From among the followers of Mirza Ghulam Ahmad sahib, I also do not consider Qadianis and Ahmadis to be in the same category. In my opinion the Qadiani group is excluded from Islam, but the Ahmadi group is included within Islam".

    The image of his original letter (unkay khat ka aks) is at this link.

    Dr Israr Ahmad:

    The reference for the writing of Dr Israr Ahmad is: Tehreek Jamaat-i Islami, Ayk Tahqiqi Mutalia, published by Darul Isha‘at Islamia, Lahore, 1966, pages 186 – 187.

    I have extracted these pages, along with the title pages of this book, from a later edition (2008), into a pdf file, and marked the relevant text with red lines. See this link.

     


  20. The continuation of revelation is established by the following:

    Those who say "our Lord is Allah" and then they remain steadfast, the angels descend on them, saying "Fear not, nor grieve, and rejoice in the Garden which you were promised". [Qur'an, Surah 41, aya 30]

    Furthermore, countless saints of Islam have vouchsafed revelations from Allah. Philosophers and jurists can make academic studies of religion, but they never created religion and they have little qualification to make pronouncements on the spiritual experience.


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