MGAQ was so contradictory that it is hard to understand his doctrines.  In terms of the fire, whether Ibrahim (as) was thrown into it or not, MGAQ appears to give the same type of circumlocution based answers. 

The moral of the story is MGAQ was a quack-job, he was totally nuts.  That is the underlying truth.   In the same sense, I have asked Mr. Aziz to answer many of my questions which he has carefully avoided.  Instead, he focuses on technicalities and looks to use counter-arguments in this area. 

“It is established that the Holy Prophet had the same nature as Abraham. Just as Abraham, for the love of Tauheed, got himself placed in the fire and then was saved by the voice of “O fire, be coolness and peace”, similarly our Holy Prophet, for the love of Tauheed, got himself placed in the fire of that persecution which, after his coming, arose all over the world” (Tiryaq-ul-Qulub, p. 155).

“When a believer wishes to be a true believer, tribulations come upon him till he thinks he is going to die. Then the mercy of Allah comes into action and the order is given: O fire, be coolness and peace.” (Al-Hakam, December 1902).

Which fires are these, that the Holy Prophet and a believer faces?

Zafrullah hasn’t given any reference to Hazrat Mirza sahib’s words, but in an extract which is similar to the one in his book, it is stated:

“Let any opponent try, and start a fire and place me in it. The fire will not work and Allah will save me according to His promise. But this does not mean that I should myself jump into a fire. God says: Do not destroy yourselves by your own hands. I do not enter fire deliberately. It is a promise of protection against the enemies that if they try to burn me in fire I will not burn.” (Badr, December 1903)

He is talking about his opponents, not about us or Maulana Nur-ud-Din nor asking the Maulana to put him in a fire as a test!

In the extracts from the book “Nur-ud-Din” referred to by Zafrullah, the Maulana constantly mentions “opposition” as fire. And, as I quoted above, he writes that Allah will safeguard him as He safeguarded Abraham and our Holy Prophet”. Zafrullah stops at “Abraham”.

Bilal writes: “Why does it matter if Nur al Din changed his position?  WHAT ???”

I wrote this about the birth of Jesus: “Why does it matter to you…”

If he changed his position about the birth of Jesus then according to you that is an improvement and he got nearer to Islam! Strange that a person who is further away from Islam about the birth of Jesus is, according to you, brought closer to true Islam by Hazrat Mirza sahib!

It appears that I am the most action this blog has had in years.  My viewpoint must be tremendous for the 6-7 bloggers here.  lol. 

Zafrullah presented this information in a much different way than you are.  That is a problem in itself.  Then, you are pulling the technicalities out of the statement of Nur ud Din.  Stop it, stop behaving in this manner.  Deal with the issues, not the minor inconsistencies therein. 

Then you quote only a portion of the passage: 

“Those who are unable to comprehend how the fire was cooled for Abrahamas are welcome to throw me into the fire and see whether I emerge safe from it or not.” 

This is the whole sentence.  MGAQ was talking about YOU.  YOU and Ikram are unable to comprehend.  Your own leader disagrees with you on this entire topic.  And you guys called me the LIAR????  Are you kidding? 

Why does it matter if Nur al Din changed his position?  WHAT ???  This is paramount to the discussion.  We must establish facts that find conclusions based on facts.  You might not know how to do that. 

You must wonder…did I know ahead of time about the fire???  Did I set you guys up for failure??  Maybe I did…I warned you…im really smart.  lol. 

@ Ikram

You must think….did Bilal set me up??? Did Bilal know of what MGAQ had written about the fire before hand??? i warned you guys. Im not the Ulema of india. Im that new-age boy. I have the internet at my disposal, they didnt!!!!!!

Why dont you search the books of your founder and tell me what he wrote in terms of the fire.

And also, I hypothesize that Malik Ghulam Fareed/Mahmud Ahmad copied Muhammad Ali’s Quran in this case, any many others.

Immediately after “as he had safeguarded Abraham (as)”, Maulana Nur-ud-Din says in that reference: “and our Holy Prophet (saw)”.

From which fire was the Holy Prophet guarded and how? Then he goes on to write that the non-Muslim opponents of Mirza sahib started fires against him, the Muslim opponents started different types of fires but all were disappointed. Which fire is he talking about here?

Your quote from Zafrullah says: “are welcome to throw me into the fire”. Maulana Nur-ud-Din writes in that reference: “Abraham did not himself jump into the fire, nor do the believers or righteous or prophets themselves test Allah. They are commanded not to destroy themselves. … You foolishly say that he (HMGA) should himself enter into fire. Is this obedience to the example of prophets and messengers? The Quran says: Throw him. So you give this command to your followers and forces”.

Birth of Jesus:

Why does it matter to you whether M. Nur-ud-Din sahib changed his view or not? In either case he remains a kafir according to you. If he didn’t change, as we say (i.e. continued believing Jesus had a father), he is an even worse kafir according to you.

It seems that your founder disagreed with Mahmud Ahmad (the Qadianis)as well as Muhammad Ali and the LAM.  Read it:

“He had also opined that the fire mentioned in 21:70 was the fire of opposition; but the Promised Messiahas observed: “There is no need to have recourse to such a construction. I too have been called Abrahamas by God. Those who are unable to comprehend how the fire was cooled for Abrahamas are welcome to throw me into the fire and see whether I emerge safe from it or not.” So Maulawi Sahibra, in refutation of Dharampal’s objection, wrote in Nur-ud-Din: “You can throw our Leader into the fire, and youwill see that Allah, the Exalted, will, according to His promise, safeguard him against the fire as He had safeguarded Abrahamas.”30

30= Nuruddin p.146.

From:http://www.alislam.org/library/books/HazratMaulviNooruddeen.pdf

Page 100, the other reference as posted above is the same. 

Im still not done with you and Muhammad Ali in terms of his response to that letter.  More to come on that. 

Question 1:  When did Noorudin write this book entitled Nur al Din?  What year? 

Question 2: Is Zafrullah Khan a liar? 

I read this, from his book entitled, “Noorudin”

“The birth of Jesusas without a father had been a somewhat controversial question. Maulawi Nur-ud- Dinra had held the view that Jesus had a father. The Promised Messiahas, in his book Mawahibur Rahman.”

Then, I actually bumped into a good reference about the fire of Abraham (as).  I will post that data into the proper thread. 

You need to solved yet another contradiction in Ahmadiyyat thought. 

, announced that it was part of his doctrine that Jesusas had been born without a father. On reading this Maulawi Sahibra  discarded his view and fell into line with the view propounded by the Promised Messiah as He frankly confessed this change of view in his book Nur-ud-Din

Maulana Nur-ud-Din wrote a book entitled Nur-ud-Din in refutation of the arguments of a Muslim who had become an Arya and published a book Tark-i Islam, raising a large number of objections against the Quran which were the reasons for his leaving Islam.

Question: Why did Maulana Nur-ud-Din write this book to defend Islam and the Quran if he himself is a non-Muslim who is against Islam (as Bilal Roberts alleges about us)?

One reason for leaving Islam (no. 74) given by the apostate was that Islam teaches that a woman can become pregnant without a man, as happened in case of the birth of Jesus.

The Maulana replied:

“i. The Islam taught to us by that Divine Scripture, the Holy Quran, does not say anywhere that to become a Muslim you need to believe that Jesus had no father.
“ii. The Holy Prophet has not told us that a part of Islam is to believe that Jesus had no father.
“iii. Our beloved holy Companions, our four leaders of jurisprudence, and other great Imams, have nowhere instructed us that it is necessary to believe that Jesus was born without a father.
“iv. Our respected Sufi saints have not exhorted us anywhere in their teachings that to attain the ranks of Divine nearness, to accomplish self-reform, and to acquire noble morals, it is necessary to believe that Jesus had no father.
“v. Besides Jesus, how many prophets, messengers and appointed ones of Allah, have there been! Is the genealogy of any one of them recorded in the Holy Quran? In fact, Allah says, ‘None knows the hosts of thy Lord, save He’. So it is not necessary to know of the existence of everyone, let alone how they were born.
 
“Then in the Christian religion, the birth of Jesus without a father is not an evidence of his Divinity, because they believe that Melchizedek and Adam were also born without a father. Again, this teaching is not a part of Islam, so how did this teaching make you leave Islam? This is one of those issues which are matters of general investigation.”

(p. 181-182).

(On p. 184, in connection with something else, he writes: “Today is 11th December 1903″. The book has 258 pages.)

Years later Maulana Nur-ud-Din said:

“There is another debate, as to whether the Messiah was born without father or not. I say: Did 124,000 prophets have fathers or not? The Shariah has not laid upon us the obligation to make investigation about the mothers, fathers, sisters and brothers of prophets. These matters are not a part of your spiritual progress.” (Badr, 24th August 1911)

You didnt even answer my questions. 

1.  Why did MGAQ issue a fatwa on the birth of Esa (as) in 1903?  Why did he wait sooo long?  He waited 12 years.  Why doesnt the LAM follow the fatwa of MGAQ?  Didnt Noorudin change his views in 1903? 

I talk about all things, people, events and ideas.  I discuss and think about all 3.  I am well schooled in Ahmadiyya psychology mate.  I know more than you can imagine. 

You appear to be a liberal, you want Islam to have boundaries in terms of science.  Science has no boundaries!!!!!!  The speed of light is a starting point, not a boundary.  You put boundaries on Allah.