Comments on: Qadiani Khalifa V Friday, June 10, 2011 sermon on subject of Mujaddid.

By: ikram

ikram — Sun, 23 Dec 2012 05:34:43 +0000

The quandry of this long thread of 142 posts has been answered by a book in Urdu by Amir Aziz, AAIIL, entitled - "Principles to Identify the Mujaddid of the Times, and Hadiths about Mujaddid." http://www.aaiil.org/urdu/books/others/amiraziz/mujadidwaqat/mujadidwaqtkeshanakhat.shtml

By: Adnan Meer

Adnan Meer — Sat, 17 Dec 2011 13:45:37 +0000

Dear M.Ali
Aoa,

You write to me in your post dated October 29th, 2011 at 7:01 pm that,

“On Mr. Abdul Ghaffar Jamba (claimant of being Musleh Maud) website you can also read dreams. So for me being a neutral person there are equal chances that both of them can be the people whom I must accept.”

Here are two links which contain the answer of your confusion.

http://al-ahmadiyyat.com/official/2011/12/12/invitation-respected-abdul-ghaffar-janbah/

http://al-ahmadiyyat.com/official/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/Letter-to-Abdul-Ghaffar-Janbah-Sb..pdf

wassalam

By: Zahid Aziz

Zahid Aziz — Sun, 11 Dec 2011 18:33:05 +0000

I have now translated that writing of the Promised Messiah mentioned above and created a document consisting of the translation and the image of the original page from Badr. Please read here. (Personal note: During this time the birth of a grandson, my first grand-child, has taken place!)

By: Adnan Meer

Adnan Meer — Sat, 10 Dec 2011 15:52:21 +0000

Aoa, Four questions for Lahore Ahamadiyyah Movement Jazakallah http://al-ahmadiyyat.com/official/2011/11/25/1571/

By: Zahid Aziz

Zahid Aziz — Wed, 07 Dec 2011 20:16:07 +0000

Mr Adnan Meer, you have asked me why I haven't published your comment which you sent just prior to the one above by you. I didn't publish it because all you did in it was to quote my comment of October 23rd, 2011 at 7:24 pm and then your recent comment of December 4th, 2011 at 6:45 pm, and asked readers to compare the two. Both these can already be read above on this page and need not be repeated again to avoid lengthening this page unnecessarily. However, I can give links to both of those comments for convenience: Zahid Aziz's comment of October 23rd, 2011 at 7:24 pm Adnan Meer's comment of December 4th, 2011 at 6:45 pm

By: Zahid Aziz

Zahid Aziz — Tue, 06 Dec 2011 07:37:20 +0000

1. I had quoted, in English translation, a couple of sentences from that published letter.

2. Adnan Meer claimed that I had quoted the Promised Messiah out of context. He wrote: the references presented by you were just one side of the picture as one can say that Quran orders to its followers ”La Takrabuss salat”.

3. So I said I will translate and publish here the whole of the letter in English. After all, this discussion is taking place in English. Many of our readers cannot read Urdu. Even many of those who can read Urdu might still have difficulty in clearly understanding the small print or some of the words.

By: Adnan Meer

Adnan Meer — Tue, 06 Dec 2011 03:13:04 +0000

Mr.Zahid Aziz writes "I intend inshallah to translate it into English so that readers can see how forcefully he has expressed himself and that my brief quotations from the letter (“It is not for a man to wish to receive revelation, nor does it give him any kind of merit”) represent his views correctly." I could not understand that instead of referring the posts from both of us for comparison to judge the reality,why he is intending to translate the the Letter published in Badr, 21 November 1907 in english...Amazing

By: Zahid Aziz

Zahid Aziz — Mon, 05 Dec 2011 21:52:29 +0000

Anyone who reads the Letter published in Badr, 21 November 1907 that I referred to, as mentioned by Adnan Meer in his comment above, will easily see that I have not presented "one side of the picture" or quoted Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad out of context. I intend inshallah to translate it into English so that readers can see how forcefully he has expressed himself and that my brief quotations from the letter (“It is not for a man to wish to receive revelation, nor does it give him any kind of merit”) represent his views correctly.

By: Adnan Meer

Adnan Meer — Sun, 04 Dec 2011 20:32:41 +0000

I forgot to add the complete reference of the following extracts in my above post so I am adding here.Jazakallah

By: Adnan Meer

Adnan Meer — Sun, 04 Dec 2011 18:45:43 +0000

A heart which has no desire to receive a certain Divine communion is dead;

A religion which cannot lead its followers to this perfection and fails to grant them communion with God, does not possess the spirit of truth and does not come from God;

A prophet who does not lead his people on the path where they crave for Divine communion and God-realization, is not from Him

My dear and most respected Mr.Zahid Aziz sahib
Aoa,
You write to Mujadid of 15th Islamic Century, Hazrat Nasir Ahamad Sultani r.a in your previous post dated October 23rd, 2011 at 7:24 pm

“Dear Sultani sahib, assalamu alaikum.

My answer to all these questions (right path, goal, etc.) can be found in the three lengthy statements of Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad that I have already uploaded in the original and given links to in my comments above.

Letter published in Badr, 21 November 1907.
Statements in Badr, 14th February and 3 October 1907.
Now I have added a fourth statement: Statement in Al-Badr, May 1904.”

According to the above refferneces presented by you from the writtngs of HMGA,the summary of these refferences can be described in the following lines.

“God has not asked you to pray that you may receive revelation, but rather that you attain the right path, the path of those who, in the end, receive the favour of God.”
“It is not for a man to wish to receive revelation, nor does it give him any kind of merit”
(Letter published in Badr, 21 November 1907)

“The real aim and purpose is to establish a true and sincere connection with Allah, with devotion and fidelity, which cannot be attained by mere dreams …”

” This is what a man ought to attain. Without these, there is nothing to be gained by having dreams and revelations. A believer always keeps his eye on good deeds ”

( Al-Badr, 8-16 May 1904 (Malfuzat, v. 6, p. 434-436)):

” My experience with all such persons is that in the end they are destroyed. They don’t think about their deeds, they don’t look at what kind of connection their hearts have with Allah, but they are embroiled in these revelations. …”

(Badr, 14th February 1907)

Now in response I want to present some extracts from “Lecture Lahore” to draw your attention and make you realize that the refferences presented by you were just one side of the picture as one can say that Quran orders to its followers”La Takrabuss salat”. But I don’t blame that you did so consiouly.

Although,by reading only the refferences presented by you it becomes very clear to a reader that what actually HMGA a.s wants to say but for convenience I would like to present some extracts here from “Lecture Lahore,pages 159,160,161,162″ to show the both sides of pictures .

Now please read carefully the following extarcts

Hazrat Promised Massiah a.s says by explaining the following verse of Quran.
“And when My servants ask thee concerning Me,…………………..so they should hear My call and believe in Me that they may walk in the right way.(Al-Baqarah, 2:187)
If My servants ask you that how His existence is proved and why it ought to believe that God realy exists.So its answer is that i am very near. I answer the pryer of the suppliant when he calls on me. And when ever he calls on Me I hear his voice and speak to him.
So they must make themselves as, so I can speak with them.”

Further he explains the following verse at page
“And be with the truthful ( Al-Taubah, 9:119)
if you wish to see God, then pray and strive, and another requirement is that you should keep the company of
the righteous. ”

This is the stage where the labours of a spiritual wayfarer culminate, and man’s baser self is annihilated, and God’s
grace grants him a new life through His living word and
shining light, and honours him with His sweet converse.

Further he explains
“He has also accepted the following prayer which He has
taught us in the Holy Quran:
Guide us on the right path,
The path of those upon whom Thou hast bestowed favours
Not those upon whom wrath is brought down,nor those who go astray.”

i.e., show us the path of the righteous ones, whom You
favoured with every bounty, i.e., those who received
every kind of blessing from You, who were honoured
with Your converse, whose prayers were accepted, and
who were accompanied by Your help and guidance; and
save us from the path of those who incurred Your displeasure and forsook Your path.

A heart which has no desire to receive Divine communion is dead;

a religion which cannot lead its followers to this perfection and fails to grant them communion with God, does not possess the spirit of truth and does not come from God;

a prophet who does not lead his people on the path where they crave for Divine communion and God-realization, is not from Him

and only attributes falsehood to Him; for the ultimate purpose
of religion, which can rid man of sin, is to attain certainty

about God and the Day of Reckoning.
But how can one attain this certainty unless one hears the voice of God—
Now the summary from extracts presented by you can be found only in one sentence that is
“”It is not for a man to wish to receive revelation”(translated by you)
“what concern has a man about it that he may become desireous of revelation.(translated by me)

And the summary from extracts presented by me can be found only in one sentence that is
“A heart which has no desire to receive a certain Divine communion is dead;”
Now a reader can feel a contradiction here after reading both kinds of extracts so I want to make it clear as both of us have a firm believe that there is no contradiction in the writings of HMGA a.s.

So by combining the both kind of refferences and reading them according to their context we can say that

“A heart which has no desire to receive a certain Divine communion is dead but the desire must be pure of egoism, because for the ultimate purpose of religion, which can rid man of sin, is to attain certainty about God and the Day of Reckoning.
But how can one attain this certainty unless one hears the voice of God—
;”

wassalam,