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January 16th, 2012

Story of Sweet Water Well in Rabwah

Submitted by Rashid Jahangiri.


Story of Sweet Water Well in Qadianis Headquarter, Rabwah, Pakistan.

In journal ‘The Muslim World’ Volume 45, Issue 2, Pages 145-171, April 1955, an article by S.E.Brush ‘Ahmadiyyat in Pakistan’; author interviewed Qadiani Khalifa 2 (QK 2) Mirza Mahmud Ahmad. In this article couple of statements got my attention that I want to comment on.

Paragraph 4:
and support the government in power.6 Bashir-ud-Din took a similar stand, and criticized the important Ahmadi missionary to Great Britain, Kwaja Kamal-ud-Din, for becoming involved in these political issues. The result was that, after the election, Kamal-ud-Din and Muhammad Ali, the editor of the Ahmadi journal, The Review of Religions, left Qadian with a group of their own supporters, and established a new organization in Lahore.”

I would leave it to Dr. Zahid Aziz to comment on this preposterous feed given by Qadianis to Mr. Brush.

I would like to comment on another statement.

Paragraph 10:

“Since coming to Rabwah, one important vision dealt with the matter of water supply. The precise location of the only successful tube well in the town was revealed to him.”

I am going to share story that marhoom Abdul Manan Omar sahib, son of Maulana Noor-ud-Din sahib narrated to me in last year or so of his life. To establish veracity of my statement, I state it under oath, keeping Allah SWT as my witness. Per Abdul Manan Omar sahib:

“When land in Rabwah was acquired by [Qadiani] Jamaat, Khalifa sahib (QK 2) asked me to go there and make arrangements for upcoming annual Jalsa [annual gathering of Qadianis in month of December in Pakistan]. I asked Khalifa sahib that it is not feasible to hold such gathering as it is arid land and it will be difficult to find sweet water source there. Khalifa sahib said, “I don’t know just go and make arrangements”. [Manan Omar sahib was in charge of annual jalsa for many years since days in Qadian, so he had to perform his duty–RJ]. First thing was to find a suitable place for Langar-Khana (large size kitchen for attendees of jalsa). Tenets were placed. Then problem came up where to dig for well. Where I was standing, I asked well diggers to dig here. It just happened that by chance well was successful and water was sweet. This story reached Khalifa sahib, in Lahore and in his speech he (QK 2) made the whole story of his “revelation” of only sweet water well”.

Please remember: It was practice of QK 2 to make statements after the facts, and tell his audience that he had revelation regarding this event before it took place, and he told his vision/ revelation to his wife Murriam-Sadiqa. QK 2 never published his prophecy or announced in public before its fulfillment. He also knew no body will go and verify with QK 2 wife Murriam-Sadiqa, anyways.

QK 2 had resources to publish his side of ‘Sweet Water Well’ story. Qadianis believe in QK 2 version. At the same time many people, including myself, know very well that QK 2 was repeatedly accused of sexual immorality in his life time. Some victims accused him personally; others testified that QK 2’s biological daughters and sons have accused QK 2 in their presence. It is historical fact that QK 2 never made an effort to exonerate him from such extreme accusations. It is also historical fact that neither of QK 2 daughters and nor his sons have denied accusations made on him with reference to them. Given these realities, I would accept marhoom Abdul Manan Omar sahib’s version.

Footnote: Abdul Manan Omar sahib passed away in end of July 2006, and was buried in Lahore, Pakistan. His son Khalid Omar, Ph.D. was staying at their family home in J-block, Model Town, Lahore. People came to pay their condolences and offer Fatiah prayer. A group of bearded people from Al-Hadith Jamaat visited and offered Fatiah. Among them there was a person who was one of the well diggers, he narrated his first interaction with Manan sahib in Rabwah on occasion of well digging. He narrated the story there.

Ahmadiyyat In Pakistan

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1478-1913.1955.tb02219.x/abstract

http://files.qarchives.com/schbooks/SE-Brush-Paper.pdf

http://www.qern.org/wiki/display/qarchives/Ahmadiyyat+in+Pakistan

15 Responses to “Story of Sweet Water Well in Rabwah”

  1. Rashid Jahangiri has asked me to comment on the claim made in Mirza Mahmud Ahmad’s interview that he followed his father’s instructions on staying away from taking part in political activity and in supporting the (British) government, while those who later created the AAIIL did not follow these instructions.

    At the time this interview was published in 1955, there had been numerous instances of Mirza Mahmud Ahmad dabbling in politics.

    There was the Kashmir committee saga of 1931, about which it is stated in the Munir Report of 1954: “The subsequent conflict between the Ahrar and the Ahmadis was largely due to the mutual hostility arising from their having been in opposite camps during the period of the Kashmir agitation.”

    Then the Qadiani Jamaat claims that it was the Qadiani missionary, A.R. Dard, who persuaded Mr M.A. Jinnah to return to India to fight for Muslim independence after his decision to leave Indian politics and live in England. Yet they declare it as wrong for Khwaja Kamal-ud-Din to join the Muslim League!

    In 1940, when Britain was suffering the most severe military reverses at the hands of Germany in Europe, and the situation for Britain was very grave, Mirza Mahmud Ahmad declared in Qadian that this was a punishment sent by Allah on Britain because the Qadiani Jamaat had said heart-felt prayers to Allah complaining about some injustice done to them by two local British officials in Punjab. He presented this as an example that prayers of the Qadiani Jamaat are accepted by Allah.

    Whatever may be the rights or wrongs of the above actions, Mirza Mahmud Ahmad certainly took part in political activity and he criticised the British government when he considered it necessary. But if Maulana Muhammad Ali or Khwaja Kamal-ud-Din criticise the British government, it becomes against the teachings of Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad!


  2. It seems that you play a very active role in “Anti-Ahmadiyya-circles”.  Other than the verbal testimony given..do you have any hard evidence? 

    It seems that Mannan sahib was totally blind for 50+ years of his life as he lived side by side with his brother-in-law, i.e. Khalifa 2 (ra).  Then…all of a sudden he started calling him immoral and the worst of creatures.  Who helped pay for his upbrining and education by the way?? 


  3. January 17th, 2012 at 1:51 am
    From Rashid Jahangiri:

    @ Sultan:

    What hard evidence you’re looking for??

    Are you willing to accept what Qadiani Kahlifa 2 Mirza Mahmud Ahmad said after the well was dug???

    Do you consider Qadiani Khalifa 2 Mirza Mahmud Ahmad worth calling a decent person, whose biological offspring have made allegations about him of sexual misconduct against them?

    To answer your claim of Qadiani Khalifa 2 Mirza Mahmud Ahmad of so called upbringing and education of marhoom Abdul Manan Omar sahib, please read Abdul Manan Omar sahib’s interviews:
    http://ahmadiyya.org/WordPress/interview-of-late-abdul-manan-omar-sahib-by-rashid-jahangiri/

              


  4. January 17th, 2012 at 2:25 am
    From Rashid Jahangiri:

    @Dr. Zahid Aziz:

    As followup on your comments, i would like to add few comments here:

    Qadianis are so proud of their fellow Qadiani Chaudhry Zafrullah Khan whose rise to fame was his involvement in politics, and becoming Pakistan’s foreign minister….

    Qadianis should not forget their Qadiani Khalifa 3 Mirza Nasir Ahmad and later Qadiani Khalifa 4 Mirza Tahir Ahmad decision to involve their Qadiani Organization in 1970 General Elections of Pakistan and to become KING MAKER in Pakistani Politics. Qadianis should ask those Qadianis who were in Pakistan in 1970 how they helped Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto win elections and form PPP government. The same involvement in Pakistani Politics caused Qadianis declared non-Muslims and finally their Qadiani Khalifa 4, and 5 to run away from Pakistan to safety of UK, while leaving their poor followers in harms way in Pakistan.(Ref: Last 323 days of Zulfiqar Ali Bhutto by Col Rafi-ud-Din).

    Qadianis should also remember their Qadiani Khalifa 2 Mirza Mahmud Ahmad ambition to take political control of province of Baluchistan  in Pakistan.          


  5. Dear Lahori Ahmadis,

    First and foremost, the article by Brush and interview by Khalifa 2 (ra) was in terms of the Cawnpore mosque incident that the Pagham-e-Sulh magazine was involved in (1913).  The magazine supported Muslims and their agitation against the govt.  Whereas, Noorudin (ra) if I remember correctly, wrote to the effect that a bathroom forms no part of a mosque and he must have reprimanded Ahmadis from taking part in this incident.  Eventually, Noorudin called this newspaper as “pagham-e-jang”, or something like that.  Whatever his comments were, it is obvious that he was displeased.   

    Furthermore, after 1914, Ahmadis as led by Khalifa 2 (ra) didnt play a role in supporting Muslim ambitions in the sub-continent, whereas the Lahoris were trying to build bridges with the Muslim community and were even satisfied by converting people to Islam and not Ahmadiyyat.  The tabligh work of Kamalludin sahib in England highlights that concept.  Khalifa 2 (ra) was more concerned with preserving the uniqueness of the Ahmadiyya movement. 

    Moreover, the political climate of the Punjaab and subsequent partition forced Khalifa 2 (ra) to enter the world of politics (1930) in an attempt to save Qadian and Kashmir.  The Lahoris didnt have to do anything since Lahore would end up on the Pakistani side of the Punjaab.  Kashmir was the key to India. 

    Finally, Sir Muhammad Zafrullah Khan wasnt the only Ahmadi involved in politics at a high level.  N. Faruqi was the personal secretary of the governer of the Punjaab and was very friendly with him.  He was very high ranking and had lots of friends in high places.  And this was the brother-in-law of Muhammad Ali sahib. 

    I hope that I have solved some of the hang ups here.  Thank you and Wassalam! 


  6. Mr Sultan writes: “The Lahoris didnt have to do anything since Lahore would end up on the Pakistani side of the Punjaab.”

    There wasn’t any certainty that Pakistan would be created  even as late as 1946, let alone that Lahore would be in Pakistan. Lahoris were supporting the Muslim League for years before it was known that Pakistan would be founded.

    “N. Faruqi was the personal secretary of the governer of the Punjaab and was very friendly with him.”

    Mr N.A. Faruqui was a civil servant, and not involved in political activity. He was very scrupulous and kept his official duties and position separate from promoting the Jamaat’s interests. Your statement about his office is also factually incorrect.

    Was the Cawnpore mosque controversy political, or a religious issue of demolishing part of a mosque?

    Again we have the double standards that it is considered wrong for Lahori elders to support a few Muslim causes now and then, even on a religious basis, but perfectly right for Qadiani khalifas to spend their entire lives in trying to acquire political influence and power.


  7. I’ll share one thing…after WW-2, the Brits were doing bad, it was 1945, if it wasnt for America…the Brits would have folded.  They were now cutting their investments.  They scheduled partition for Israel and India.  There is no exact date for this…it was probably the plan all along.  They were leaving these two areas in a state of seperation.  Why did they care anyway?  They had no feeling of remorse whatsoever that they were splitting up the Punjaab and favoring the Sikhs.  After all, the Sikhs had helped them and even got Kashmir as a gift, which is still under foreign rule by the way.  Anyhow….

    Here is what N. Faruqi has to say:  

    “In 1946 I was Deputy Commissioner of Karachi. The Governor of the Sindh was Sir Francis Mudie, one of the few British who, being fully aware of the machinations of the Hindus, was a great sympathiser of the Muslims and supporter of the Pakistan cause. As I had previously served as his secretary, he used to tell me his inner feelings, especially as he found me to agree with his views. Even after I became Deputy Commissioner of Karachi he used to have discussions with me in favour of the creation of Pakistan. His support of the Muslims being no secret, the Hindu press used to refer to his name sarcastically, from his initials F.M., as “Fateh Muhammad”, and send telegrams against him to the Viceroy Lord Wavell and the Secretary of State for India Lord Pethick-Lawrence. But Sir Francis Mudie, instead of being overawed or intimidated, was undeterred and used to fight these complaints.A British cabinet mission came to India in 1946, headed by Lord Pethick-Lawrence, to discuss the question of Indian independence, and on their way from London to New Delhi they stayed in Karachi for one night as guests of the Governor of the Sindh. The following morning it was my official duty, as District Magistrate, to be present at Karachi airport for their departure. After they left, the Governor beckoned me to accompany him in his car. As soon as the car moved off, he said to me: “Faruqui, they are not going to give us Pakistan”. This appeared to be the final, irrevocable decision of the British government….”(See: http://www.ahmadiyya.org/books/m-kabir/mjk4-4.htm under heading ‘Prediction of creation of Pakistan’).


  8. January 18th, 2012 at 2:19 am
    From Rashid Jahangiri:

    @ Sultan:
    You wrote:
    “Furthermore, after 1914, Ahmadis as led by Khalifa 2 (ra) didnt play a role in supporting Muslim ambitions in the sub-continent, whereas the Lahoris were trying to build bridges with the Muslim community and were even satisfied by converting people to Islam and not Ahmadiyyat.  The tabligh work of Kamalludin sahib in England highlights that concept.  Khalifa 2 (ra) was more concerned with preserving the uniqueness of the Ahmadiyya movement.”
    I agree with you when you say that Khawaja Kamal-ud-Din sahib did tabligh (propagation) of Islam. Reason was simple: Khawaja sahib and other Lahori elders held belief that their religion is Islam and mission of HMGA was to defend and propagate Islam, and NOT to start some new religion. Whereas Qadiani Khalifa 2 Mirza Mahmud Ahmad held belief that HMGA founded some NEW religion (nauzubilah). QK2 not only held this belief, he also propagated it.
    In 1924 or so there was Conference of Religions in England. Organizers invited Khawaja sahib as REPRESENTATIVE OF MUSLIMS AND ONLY SPEAKER ON ISLAM. QK2 realized that he stands NO chance to make speech in that conference, if he tells organizers that he is Muslim and he would like to speak on Islam. So, he put into practice what he believed. He told organizers that his “Ahmadiyyat” is NOT Islam and a different religion, so he needs independent time to represent his religion. He convinced organizers and he succeeded in getting permission to represent his religion i.e. Qadianis Religion (which is NOT Islam). QK2 did not stop there. In conference he got few minutes to make his speech, but after he returned to India he published his “speech” in about 250 pages book. Of course in his book he wrote much more than what was possible in his few minutes’ speech at the Conference. Thus he succeeded in fooling his many followers that “Hazoor made a great speech to English men”.
    Mr. Sultan:
    You did NOT answer my earlier question: “Do you consider Qadiani Khalifa 2 Mirza Mahmud Ahmad worth calling a decent person, whose biological offspring have made allegations about him of sexual misconduct against them?”
    So I take that you ACCEPT that Qadiani Khalifa 2 Mirza Mahmud Ahmad was NOT worth calling a decent person. And he was far from being considered an honest and Amean person.


  9. Dear Rashid, my brother in Ahmadiyyat:

    You are missing the fact that HMGA (as) initiated Ahmadiyyat in 1900 in lieu of a census.  He wanted Ahmadis to check a box seperate from Muslim.  I’m not sure as to what other options were available on the form.  However, Ahmadiyyat was an option, Christianity, Hindu, Sikh and Jain may have been others.  In the end it was HMGA (as) himself who wanted to preserve the uniqueness of his doctrine.  For clarification to the Muslim world, we have been calling ourselved Islam-Ahmadiyyat.  This clears up the wrangling on the matter.  If anyone thought we were other than Islam, the correction should suffice.   

    Kamaluddin sahib was the lawyer of HMGA (as) and very well respected by all.  His vision of Ahmadiyyat was at variance with that of the general body of Ahmadis and the family of HMGA (as).  His strategy proved disastrous as the Woking mission was snatched from Lahori management roughly 50 years ago.  Even the LAM mosque in Berlin is in danger of closing if it wasnt for govt. funding.  His strategies on propogation of Islam and not Ahmadiyyat were at the forefront of the split.  I think the doctrinal dispute was a counter-reaction to this political wedge that was created between the intelligentsia of Ahmadis vs. the general body+the family of HMGA (as).  After losing the management of Woking, the LAM has failed to establish a mosque in the region.  To my knowledge, they are holding meetings in someones house which is semi-converted.

    When discussing the charachter of Khalifa 2 (ra), we have to take into consideration the fact that Muhammad Ali and Noorudin vindicated him of accusations of illicit behavior in 1907.  Muhammad Ali sahib faced the same type of accusations and was similiarily vindicated.  Muhammad Ali was accused of misappropriation of funds or some type of fraud.  In fact, Maulvi Ghulam Hasan Khan was so disgusted that he came back to us and repented for 40 years of deceit.  If we go down the road of discussing charachter, then we must address these issues.  I feel that both were wrongly accused and then vindicated. 

    Finally, you mentioned 1924, this was the same year that the Brits gave us the approval to build the first ever mosque in London.  Maybe it was the strategy of Khalifa 2 (ra) that proved effective. 


  10. Sultan writes: “Muhammad Ali sahib faced the same type of accusations and was similiarily vindicated.” This is completely false. He never faced such allegations as Mirza Mahmud Ahmad did in 1907 and later.

    “Muhammad Ali was accused of misappropriation of funds or some type of fraud.”

    This is also completely and absolutely false. His critics objected to his receiving royalty on the sales of the translation of the Quran. Maulvi Ghulam Hasan Khan had no objection to the Maulana receiving royalty on any books other than the Quran translation.

    This criticism was openly and freely aired in the meetings of the Anjuman, and the Maulana answered it in detail.

    Were allegations against Mirza Mahmud Ahmad allowed to be presented before him in official meetings by his critics? On the contrary, a prominent critic and former confidant of his, Fakhr-ud-Din Multani, was murdered in broad daylight by a disciple of Mirza Mahmud Ahmad after becoming inflammed by a khutba of the Khalifa.

    As to our losing the Woking Mission, you lost Qadian and bahishti maqbara! Separating yourself from other Muslims didn’t stop Sikhs and Hindus from attacking you just like they attacked other Muslims when partition took place. Mirza Mahmud Ahmad had to run from Qadian, not because of being an Ahmadi, but for the same reason as other Muslims had to run. So his hijrat was for exactly the same reason as the hijrat of those whom he called kafir!


  11. January 19th, 2012 at 2:25 am
    From Rashid Jahangiri:

    @ Sultan:

    Please don’t call me “my brother in Ahmadiyyat”. Because your Ahmadiyyat is DIFFERENT than mine. I consider your “Ahmadiyyat” an extreme form of Qadianiyyat i.e. MAHUDIYYAT. Please keep in mind. Thanks.

    Your: “You are missing the fact that HMGA (as) initiated Ahmadiyyat in 1900 in lieu of a census.  He wanted Ahmadis to check a box seperate from Muslim.  I’m not sure as to what other options were available on the form.  However, Ahmadiyyat was an option, Christianity, Hindu, Sikh and Jain may have been others.  In the end it was HMGA (as) himself who wanted to preserve the uniqueness of his doctrine.  For clarification to the Muslim world, we have been calling ourselved Islam-Ahmadiyyat.  This clears up the wrangling on the matter.  If anyone thought we were other than Islam, the correction should suffice.”.

    You need to learn historical details. British Raj with the aim of creating rifts and to encourage sectarianism among Muslims required Muslims to write their Firqa (Sect) under Religion i.e. Islam. HMGA belonged to Hanfi branch of Ahle-Sunnat Wal Jamaat, but he also held belief that Jesus (AS) is dead. This was not belief held by Hanfi sect people at that time. So, likening his time to Makkah life of Holy Prophet Muhammad SAWS he named his movement as Ahmadiyya. Other than this one exception HMGA followed Hanfi School of Thought, and accepted Hanfi interpretation of Islamic Laws.  On form there was no such thing as check boxes, that we see on forms in USA and European countries. It was a blank line and census taker had to write sect on it. Now you followers of Qadinai Khalifa 2 due to backlash and public relations call yourself “Islam-Ahmadiyyat”, BUT THIS WAS NOT THE CASE WITH QK2 WHEN HE REPRESENTED HIS RELIGION IN CONFERENCE. HE PRESENTED HIS RELIGION AS SOME THING DIFFERENT THAN ISLAM!!! Get this clear please.

    Your: “Finally, you mentioned 1924, this was the same year that the Brits gave us the approval to build the first ever mosque in London.  Maybe it was the strategy of Khalifa 2 (ra) that proved effective.”

    I think Qadianis should be ashamed of their QK2 behavior. If QK2 followers accept his strategy of presenting his religion different than Islam, then you should also name your ‘Place of Worship’ something other than a Mosque. As this word denotes Muslims place of worship.

    Woking Mosque was not property of Lahore Ahmadiyya Movement, although Khawaja Kamal ud Din sahib managed to save it from being sold and chance of conversion for other purpose. God knows what it would have converted to. Yes, It was negligence and oversight of LAM leaders that they made Shaikh Bashir Ahmad Misri, although a temporary Imam, as permanent Imam had to come to Pakistan, and Bashir Ahmad Misri handed the mosque management to Mulla community. As a result, the place where intellectuals and great Muslim minds use to gather, now people with green turbans gather and shake their head in unison.

    After losing Woking management LAM purchased another building in Wembley which houses mosque and mission house.

    Your: “When discussing the charachter of Khalifa 2 (ra), we have to take into consideration the fact that Muhammad Ali and Noorudin vindicated him of accusations of illicit behavior in 1907.”  Muhammad Ali sahib faced the same type of accusations and was similiarily vindicated.”

    Remember: Maulana Noor ud Din and Maulana Muhammad Ali NEVER vindicated Qadiani Khalifa 2 Mirza Mahmud Ahmad’s ILLICIT BEHAVIOR IN 1907. On advice of HMGA followers, the MAIN  ACCUSER/ WITNESS to the incidence of QK2’s ILLICIT behavior left Qadian (and probably went to Delhi) for some time as in absence of main accuser/ witness, proceedings of inquiry committee could not proceed and the issue will be forgotten. People who encouraged Main accuser/ Witness to leave Qadian knew that if proceedings of inquiry committee go forward, CHARGES ON QK2 WILL BE PROVED. And HMGA will not only kick his son out of family, but in addition news will spread and Christian and Hindu opponents living in Qadian will propagate it to damage the image of HMGA movement and mission. IT WAS THE BIGGEST MISTAKE OF HMGA FOLLOWERS. If at that time QK2 the BLACKSHEEP was kicked out, he would not have damaged HMGA mission that he did in 1914 onwards and his Mahmudi followers continue to do it today. I think it was also mistake of members of inquiry committee  Maulana Noor ud Din, Muhammad Ahsan Amrohi sahib, Maulana Muhammad Ali and Khawaja Kamal ud Din sahib for not following  the case to the end and insisting on calling main accuser/ witness. Mistake of all these elders have done irreparable loss to mission of HMGA, and we all are paying the price today and future generation will pay it too.  May be this was the will of Allah SWT.

    Your: “Muhammad Ali sahib faced the same type of accusations and was similiarily vindicated.”

    Remember: Maulana Muhammad Ali sahib NEVER faced the same type of accusations. God forbid, if there was even one accusation on him, the way many dozens were on Qadiani Khalifa 2 Mirza Mahmud Ahmad, Maulana would have presented himself for inquiry and he would not have done anything until he was exonerated publically in a public inquiry of any such charges. Just because you qadianis instead of thinking why QK2 was repeated accused by dozens all through his life but he never even once tried to exonerate himself, you Qadianis start making counter accusations!!!

    Qadiani Khalifa 2 committed worse immoral crimes than even the famous Rasputin of Russia.

    Don’t forget your QK 2 claimed to be Mamur-min-Allah (appointee of Allah SWT) and made claim of “Musleh Mahud”. And Maulana Muhammad Ali NEVER made any such claim.

    Your: “  Muhammad Ali was accused of misappropriation of funds or some type of fraud.”

    Maulana Muhammad Ali was NEVER accused of misappropriation of funds or some type of fraud. The issue was royalty of Holy Quran English Translation. FYI Maulana Muhammad Ali was NOT taking salary for his appointment and holding of office. And he had run out of his saving. There was starvation in his home. So, on suggestion of (perhaps) Khawaja Kamal ud Din sahib he was given royalty.

    Your: “ In fact, Maulvi Ghulam Hasan Khan was so disgusted that he came back to us and repented for 40 years of deceit. “

    Ghulam Hasan Khan sahib was of man of strong personality and anger. He did NOT do bait of Maulana Noor ud Din either, as in his opinion it was not required. Still he remained member of Sadar Anjuman, Qadian. He developed differences with other LAM elders due to management issues, and NOT because of beliefs. His daughter was married to QK2 and he moved to Qadian. Remember: there were many other people in Qadiani Jamaat who did NOT held Qadiani beliefs e.g. Mufti Sadiq sahib, Maulvi Sher Ali sahib, Malik Ghulam Farid sahib. In fact Malik Ghulam Farid sahib on his sick bed said he NEVER accepted QK2 Mirza Mahmud Ahmad as “Musleh Mahud”. His words were: Mein Nay Mirza Mahmud Ko Kabi Musleh Mahud Nahein Maana.

    Your: “ If we go down the road of discussing charachter, then we must address these issues.”

    You should go down the road of discussing character and make an effort to find the truth. I welcome you to do that. Bring everything to table and let’s dissect it and find the truth.

    Your: “ I feel that both were wrongly accused and then vindicated.”

    No you are WRONG in your feeling. Truth is: Qadiani Khalifa 2 Mirza Mahmud Ahmad was NEVER vindicated. And Maulana Muhammad Ali sahib was NEVER accused.    


  12. Sultan wrote: “He wanted Ahmadis to check a box seperate from Muslim.”

    This is false. Just read his ishtihar, dated 4 November 1900. He writes that he has chosen the name “Musalmaan Firqa Ahmadiyya” to be entered by his followers, and that this should be the name recognised by the government. The words “Musalmaan Firqa Ahmadiyya” are written by him in large bold letters in this ishtihar.

    Accroding to Sultan, the term “Muslims of the Ahmadiyya sect” means such people are not from among Muslims! 
      
    At the beginning he writes: “On the occasion of this census  it has been officially arranged that every sect which is distinguished by its beliefs from other sects should be entered separately, and whatever name it chooses for itself, that should be its name in government papers…”
     


  13. January 19th, 2012 at 5:47 pm
    From Muhammad Ali:

    @Sultan: You write in a previous post:

    “His strategy proved disastrous as the Woking mission was snatched from Lahori management roughly 50 years ago.  Even the LAM mosque in Berlin is in danger of closing if it wasnt for govt. funding.”

    I think this single line about Berlin mosque tells that how well informed you are about all the different things which you are discussing here.

    There was never a danger of Berlin mosque closure for funding reasons. We are not getting any government funding to run our mosque. The Berlin mosque is run by the money of Ahmadiyya Anjuman Lahore. As our mosque is the oldest functioning mosque in Germany, so it is included in the list of historical buildings which should be preserved across Germany. So for its renovation we get grants like all other buildings in Germany. But these grants do not cover the 100% renovations costs. Still a large portion of the money for renovation is contributed by our Anjuman.

    I hope that next time before you write something related to some issue, you are going to double check your sources. 


  14. DR Zahid Aziz –  Rashid Jahangiri 
    Don’t Stop … until you got …

    For you just one word  ……. JEALOUS ……

    Pitty LAM …..


  15. Abu Tahir and others from Qadiani Jamaat:
     
    5:104. …They say, `Sufficient for us is that (tradition) whereon we have found our forefathers.’ What! (would they follow them blindly) even though their forefathers had no knowledge whatsoever and had no guidance? [Nooruddin]
     
    We can slice and dice till eternity the words and works of HMGA, Nooruddin, QK-2,3,4, Muhammad Ali and so on and still differ. The fundamental question to Qadiani Jamaat is that at least you claim that your Rabwah Khilafat-chain is God ordained. This nonsense of Divine ordainment within only a bloodline even brings into question the nature and sense of fairness of God Himself. According to your doctrine then Mirza Masroor too is appointed by God and not by humans. Does it not beget the “God Appointee” to be out in public forum? He should be giving public speeches. He should be on internet blogs answering and clarifying any ambiguities, making global case for Islam on mass media and not confined to  Ahmadiyyat or pidram-sultan-bood. He should be addressing not a rent-a-crowd of his Jamaat, but people who have critical questions about Islam and even Ahmadiyyat.
     
    I personally had a chance to attend late Mirza Tahir’s sitting in a Qadiani Mosque. To my disappointment, any question that was asked of him was of such a low intellect that I wondered if this is the enlightenment that HMGA’s gave to his followers. It only diminished HMGA for me. But, with time, I realized that such questions were from coattail followers who admire the person and not the ideas. Further disappointment was the admonishing tone of the Khalifa who nipped the ideas in the bud. For example, one of the audiences asked about possibility of Mujaddids. His response was not only furious but firm as to how can a Mujaddid appear while Khalifat is still there. He did not back up his answer with any logic. Clearly he was defending his turf. The poor guy, who asked this question, sheepishly withdrew from the session.
     
    In my assessment, the Qadiani Jamaat is more of a culture and a following, rather than any enlightenment or meeting place of ideas. These kinds of cults devoid of reason and originality are all pervasive both within and without Islam. To this Quran states:
     
    43:22.  Nay, but they say, “Behold, We found our forefathers agreed on what to believe – and, verily, it is in their footsteps that we find our guidance!” [Nooruddin]
     
    7:179. …They have hearts that they use not to understand. They have eyes with which they see not, and ears with which they hear not. They are like cattle. Nay, they are even worse. Such are the people who have chosen to live through life in total darkness of ignorance. [Shabbir Ahmed]
     
    8:22. Verily, the vilest of all creatures in the sight of God are those deaf, those dumb ones who do not use their reason. [Muhammad Asad]


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