The Lahore Ahmadiyya Movement Blog

For our blog discussion relating to this, see this link.

The article below is a local copy on this blog of this link.

Response To A Lahori

On Sunday 16/10/2011 I received no less than 12 emails all containing the same message from a Mr Rashid Jahangiri. Mr Jahangiri is a member of the Lahori Mirzay Cult who call themselves ‘Lahore Ahmadiyya Movement’.In bold are the statements of the Lahori Cult member and beneath is my reply.

Opponents of Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad (HMGA) keep challenging Lahore Ahmadiyya Movement (LAM) members to provide reference from the Holy Quran to the point which he referred. And if we can provide proofs we will get so much monetary reward.
If you actually made an effort to read the page you would notice that nowhere have Lahori Cult members been mentioned. The challenge is for the Qadiani cult and it clearly states on the page ‘Challenge For Qadianis’ not ‘Challenge For Lahori Mirzays’. You Lahoris also refer to them as Qadianis, completely dissociate yourselves from them and regularly stress ‘we have nothing to do with Qadianis’ yet on this occasion (most likely for publicity reasons) you jump on the same bandwagon!

Other times these opponents allege that HMGA wrote such and such statement, and this is what he meant by his statement. They accuse LAM members to distort meaning of HMGA statement.
Nothing has been alleged, all quotes are from the books of Mirza Ghulam Qadiani, if you accept those books or not, it’s not our problem. Also once again there was no mention of LAM.

For many years i use to debate with these opponents after reading few pages before and after the quote to better understand the context of HMGA quotes. Many times those quotes were not from HMGA books. They were either from writings of HMGA opponent, or were from Malfoozat (NOT writings of HMGA), Tazkara (NOT a book written by HMGA), newspapers articles (reported by listeners in Badar, Al Hakam). After I spent many hours these opponents without acknowledging their mistake would just vanish and then reappear under different usernames on internet forums and again start making allegations. It was obvious these opponents are not sincere in opposition and not honest enough to admit their misunderstanding. Finally I came up with following strategy:
When you don’t accept those books to be authentic then why are you getting involved? There has been no mention of your Lahori Cult for you to become involved. Strangely enough I hear the same nonsensical lame replies from all types of Mirzays, whether Qadiani or Lahori, ‘read the pages before and after’ yet you people never seem to do the same with the Quran which is the WORD of Allah SWT. You people give more importance to Mirza Qadiani and hold is word as final authority by claiming reading several pages before and after would explain the depth of understanding within a ridiculous quote of his! When all types of Mirzays quote from the Quran they will use one verse and completely twist the meaning to suit their own agenda, instead of reading the verses before and after just like the enemies of Islam do.
These examples can be found for the false claims made by both Mirzay Cults that Prophet Isa AS has died (4:157/158), the allegation that Surah Al-Qiyamah (75:7/8/9) contains a prophecy of a solar& lunar eclipse which occurred during the life of Mirza Qadiani.

If opponents of HMGA want me to answer their allegation then they must provide HMGA quotes from his published books that he himself authored.
Where is your name or the name of your Lahori Cult mentioned on that page? When you do not accept those books to be authentic then why are you wasting our time? The Questions were for those who believe in those books!

Before making allegation opponent should read ten pages before and after the HMGA quote under discussion.
We do thanks.

Opponent should state under oath with invitation of Allah’s wrath on his children, family and himself, that whatever objection/ allegation he is making, he is convinced in his heart after reading the ten pages before and after the HMGA quote to fully understand the context, and he is writing with all honesty what he believes in his heart.
I will take a bigger step: I swear by Allah as my witness, that Mirza Ghulam Ahmad of Qadian who claimed to be a Mujaddid, Mahdi, The Promised Messiah and (according to the Qadiani Cult) a Prophet, was nothing but a Liar, Fraud & Charlatan. He died as a Kafir and those who accept his claims are also Kafirs, whether Qadiani or Lahori. May Allah give guidance to you but if guidance is not your destiny then may Allah curse the liar, Aameen.

All I wanted was to hold opponents words against themselves. If they were honest in their assertion then they should have no problem stating their statement under oath that they were making otherwise.
Already done.

As it became clear that either these opponents were making false statement or after reading the context of quote they were convinced that it does not mean what they previously thought. Instead of accepting their mistakes they like JEWS OF JESUS TIME, keep on repeating their false statements, without taking oath and inviting Allah’s writ to punish liars.
We will come back to this shortly.

Many times these opponents of HMGA are also “moderators” of the anti-HMGA forum, and blogs. But instead of showing the honesty and bravery by clearly stating that poster and moderator is the same person, they use different user names. These moderators keep deleting my posts and banning me on their forums and blogs.
Probably because of your arrogant tone/abuse or because of your ignorance they do not want to waste time with you. Lahoris are desperately attempting to gain attention by jumping onto any post that mentions the Qadiani Cult.

When I remind them that Allah SWT says in Holy Quran when there is no witness or judge to decide between the two parties then take oath and invite Allah to decide between them and punish the liars. These opponents delete my posts and ban me.
I suggest you remember this statement well of yours.

I keep reminding these opponents, as there is no court and judge on internet with temporal powers to punish the liars, as was the case in South African courts in 1980s between LAM and anti-HMGA people. There Judgments were issued in favour of LAM and anti-HMGA people were punished. Unfortunately, anti-HMGA posters on internet are not willing to invite Allah SWT to judge between them and LAM member. The most notorious in this regard are Akbar Ahmad Chaudhry (spokesman for Khatam-e-Nabuwat Academy, UK) he acts as poster and moderator under different names on ahmedi.org, and Shahid Ahmad Kamal (speaker of Khatam-e-Nabuwat Academy, UK) poster and moderator of thecult.info. Now these opponents of HMGA have adopted another strategy, of announcing a monetary reward to those who can provide proof and/or answer their questions. These anti-HMGA people understand very well that unless there is judge with temporal powers in this world there is no way to extract monetary reward from them nor they can be punished for making false accusations. So they can make as much false statements as they wish, and nobody in this world is there to stop them. Again they are not willing to invite Allah SWT to act as a judge.
Referring to statements 5 & 7. I request you to take oath that the two individuals you have mentioned hold the positions within the Khatme Nubuwat Academy, UK that you stated. Moreover you have suggested that both individuals are responsible for the five challenges, you have been bold in your previous statements so I request you to take oath with Allah SWT as judge, that these statements you have mentioned are 100% correct. Once again I must stress there was no mention of your Lahori Cult. I understand how small your Lahori Cult membership is and that you don’t even make half the amount of the chanda that the Qadiani cult does, so money is a big factor for you! When the enemies of Islam come forward waving their swords attempting to attack the character of the beloved Last Prophet of Islam, Muhammad Sallallahu Alahi Wassallam, We the Muslims jump at the chance to defend him and ask for nothing in return.

But there is limit to Allah’s patience and signs of Allah’s patience running out are evident. It is evident from the statement at the bottom of home page of anti-HMGA website based in UK. These opponents of HMGA who are willing to murder follower of HMGA on the drop of the hat in Pakistan are forced to write on ‘Second Hand Islam’: “We, at Secondhand Islam, reject all forms of violence that may be directed towards innocent members of the Qadiani Cult. As Muslims we believe that no individual/organisation has the right to take the law into their own hands and harm another creation of Allah.”
The statement you have made is a serious and severe accusation against the team at Secondhand Islam. With all your previous claims of us being too afraid to take oaths with Allah as witness, I request you re-type the above statement but this time invite the wrath of Allah upon the liar. Alleging that we at Secondhand Islam would not hesitate to murder the followers of Mirza Ghulam Qadiani is not a minor issue but it is extremely serious and severe accusation. We will give you the opportunity to issue a public apology to us on your blog for your accusation or if you believe that your statement is correct then re-write it by taking an oath in the name of Allah SWT.

These ‘Second Hand Islam’ people have given ‘Five Challenges’. Being member of LAM, I am willing to take their challenge, ONLY IF they can point out the judge with temporal powers who can extract money from them and reward it to me.
When you don’t even accept those books to be authentic, why should we waste our time with you?

I am emailing this post to ‘Second Hand Islam’ people through their‘Contact Us’.
Thanks, we received the same message no less than 12 times. A desperate sign of seeking attention

Final words:
The Lahoris just like the Qadianis are also non-Muslims (Kafirs). The Lahoris split from the Qadianis in 1914 after the death of the first successor to Mirza Ghulam Qadiani, Hakeem Nooruddin. The Lahori Mirzays state that Mirza Ghulam Qadiani never claimed to be a Prophet and all this was invented by his son, Mirza Basheer Uddin Mahmud. The real reason that the founder of the Lahori Cult (Muhammad Ali) split from the Qadianis was because he believed he should have been the 2ndsuccessor to Mirza instead of the son of Mirza. He realised that the religion of Qadianiat is a great business opportunity and wanted to make an easy living. The easiest excuse given to him by the devil was, ‘he never claimed to be a prophet’.

I sometimes wonder who are more ignorant, those who believe Mirza Qadiani to be a Prophet or those who state he never claimed Prophet-hood?

For Muslims the statements of our pious elders such as, Shaykh Pir Mehr Ali Shah Gilani r.a (14 April 1859 – May 1937), Maulana Anwar Shah Kashmiri r.a (November 26, 1875 – May 28, 1933), who were both witnesses to the claim of prophet-hood by Mirza Qadiani, are sufficient.

The reason for the Lahori Cult sticking its nose into the challenges is because they are also in fear (just like the Qadiani Cult) over how many Qadianis are leaving to accept Islam. The Lahoris yearn for the Qadianis to join them so that they can increase their chanda collection. The Lahoris are angered by the great work that our brothers at thecult.info and our secret sister findings have been doing of late, opening paths for Qadianis to see the reality of Mirza Ghulam Qadiani!

In future we will not be wasting our time with the Lahori Mirzay Cult.

May Allah Give Guidance To Those Who Seek It!