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January 27th, 2008

Book Arya Dharm: What Hazrat Mirza sahib did or did not write in it

I am creating a separate topic for this. Our opponent has sent the following comment:


From pleeezing One:

ZAHID SAHAB, HERE IS THE PIECE OF WRITING FROM ARYA DHARAM:

REF: Arya dharam RK 10 page 73-74 pdf 75-76

” According to my suggestion, if I European hoers are provided for European soldiers, then, firstly there will be no risk of syphilis (VD) because perhaps these no such disease exists in Europe, secondly, they will be examined by desi doctors at the time of selection like any soldier. By this, there will be no need of medical exams anymore as both the parties will be free of disease and this will be a good arrangement to satisfy the soldiers’ sexual desires without the need of law of internal examination.

No one can deny the fact that, like in India there are prostitutes in England. Therefore, there will be no difficulty in arranging this. Rather, I am certain that European civilized prostitutes will gladly offer their services to keep the brave soldiers happy. And for the huge expenses that will incur on bringing them to and from India, the Indian citizens will feel no burden. When they pay huge amounts for military expenses, they will not disagree to pay this additional amount. Rather this will save the honor of Indian unfortunate women and brave British soldiers will stay happy and healthy.”

NEED I SAY MORE? CAN A NABI (OR MUHADDIS IN YIUR CASE) SAY SUCH THINGS?

35 Responses to “Book Arya Dharm: What Hazrat Mirza sahib did or did not write in it”

  1. If you have looked in the original book properly, then just translate the page preceding the whole section from which you have taken these words. That explains what this relates to.

    Are you sure that these words were written by Hazrat Mirza sahib? What would you say if a Muslim newspaper (of the general Muslim community) published exactly these words and supported them?

    In addition, I challenge you to translate the first one and a half pages of Arya Dharm. That is only about 22 lines.

    (P.S. While we concentrate on dealing with this allegation, I will hold your last comment about the Nishan-i Asmani.)


  2. January 28th, 2008 at 12:16 am
    From pleeezing One:

    Zahid sahab,

    I quoted from Arya Dharam and these are not my words, these are your “muhaddis” and Qadiani “Nabi’s” words which represent a very cheap thought, a gentleman will puke with the very thought of it, nevermind a Muhaddis. If you want to de3fend him, please show us what you have than asking me to translating other pages.

    I have read woth my own eyes full article starting from “qanoon-e-dikhai” and I am sorry to say that mirza shab is concerned about British soldiarts health and their secxual urges that resulted in an their raping an Indian woman.

    A “nabi”is offering a solution to the problem; suggestimng to import European whores that will keep the soldiars happy and healthy.

    And why are you holding my comments on Nishan-e-Asmani, tell me I will stop writing here if you can’t handle the truth anymore??

    Thanks


  3. I too await pleezing One’s response. After reading this accusation I went to the original book and it dawned upon me that none of these people (pleezing One et al) actually read Mirza Sahib’s work. It is mostly a copy and paste job from somewhere.

    It is my hope (maybe a foolish dream) that in just one instant (just one pleeez Mr. pleezing One!) these people come back and say “my bad, I was wrong and in this case I take back what I said about Mirza Sahib”). Maybe it is just a foolish dream. In reality they will just move on to the next “copy’n paste job” 🙁


  4. Dear Mr pleeezing One,

    Have you read the page of text immediately preceding the title “qanoon-e-dikhai”, and what does the sentence just before this title tell you about this section?

    You don’t need to translate word for word. Just give us the gist of what you understand from: (1) the first one and a half pages of this book, that’s only 22 lines, and (2) a page of text just before “qanoon-e-dikhai”?

    I am asking you because you will then be answering your own accusation with your own mouth.

    Are you even prepared to tell us in your own words what is stated at the above two points in the book Arya Dharm?

    Do you think that the replies given to the Arya Samaj in this book are correct? If you don’t, then please let us know some better answers to these Arya Samaj allegations against the Holy Prophet Muhammad.

    (PS. The reason why I have withheld your last comment on Nishan-i Asmani is to concentrate on this allegation, as this is a case of plain facts rather than interpretations and it is much easier to see your misrepresentations.)


  5. January 29th, 2008 at 7:41 am
    From Jamil Sultan:

    So basically you believe that Mirza was not a prophet because he wrote those things in his books. Don’t you believe in the finality of the prophethood? I mean who needs to read some books to find out if he’s a prophet or not. If there is indeed no prophet after Mohammad then it’s just stupid to read books to figure out “Oh! this guy can’t be a prophet. He wrote about prostitutes. No prophet can do that.” and “Oh, I spent all my life reading some false prophet’s books when I could have done something with my life.”


  6. I cannot fully understand the point that Jamil Sultan is trying to make.


  7. January 29th, 2008 at 1:29 pm
    From Jamil Sultan:

    Don’t you believe that Mohammad was the last prophet of God?


  8. Are you addressing this question to me or to our critic the “pleeezing One”?

    In case you are asking me, then as everyone knows the Lahore Ahmadiyya Jama’at believes the Holy Prophet Muhammad to be the last prophet, after whom no prophet, new or old, will come.


  9. January 29th, 2008 at 3:05 pm
    From Fazal Ahmadi:

    It is very shameful act to present some one’s writing according to your taste and desire and change the meaning of the sayings totally what the person actually said.

    Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad Qadiani Alihissalam (the promised Messiah and Mehdi)never and never wrote or said any thing which goes against the principle of Islam, Holy Quran and Muhammad Sallallaho Alihe Wasallam.

    If you are a Muslim and believe in Islam, Holy Quran and Muhammad Sallallaho Alaihe Wasallam then you should follow the word of Holy Quran “QULU QAULUN SADEEDA”.

    My humble request to you please present page number 72 of the said book (which you quoted here).

    But you will not and never present; this is my challenge. If you are a Muslim and believe in Holy Quran’s word “QULU QAULUN SADEEDA” then present it.
    If you are not presenting the above asked page of the said book in that case it will be understood that you people are simply “Ibn Iblees Mardood”; who want to create “Fitna”.

    Hope you will never reply me.


  10. January 29th, 2008 at 3:43 pm
    From Pleezing One:

    Dr Zahid Aziz and others,

    I came to this forum barely a week back with an impression that perhapes Lahoris are more sensible and honest than qadianis in quest for truth. I also had this false impression that Lahoris do not use deviation tactics and avoid the issues.
    To my utter disappointment, I must say that I find no difference between the two, both are equally hypocrite and blind followers.

    I have two examples,

    One I followed up on a Ilham of mirza sb where he told his folowers that he is the One who was appointed thriugh special Ilham to start preaching at 40 and will live for about 80 years. I proved from his own statement that, too bad for you, mirza sb is proven false on those Ilhamat…. Instead of answering and accepting the reality, all Zahid Aziz could do was to remove that thrad / my commnts. I assume Zahid Aziz reads URDU, I was expecting that after reading that Ilham with his own eyes he will show some honesty but boy.. no.

    On second issue, I translated from Mirza sb own book ” ARYA Dharam” a most shameful suggestion by mirza to import whores for the pleasures and health of British soldiers and to curb their sexual desires to avoid any mishaps, again, Zahid Aziz not only questioned if writing is by mirza, but also asked me to translate 2 pages preceeding that. I told him that I have read all from ” qanoon-e-dikhai” and that does not change anything. If he had a differnet view ( which cannopt be formed after reading Qanoon–edihkai), He must come back with his explainations / translations. But no.. he preferred to hide behind the lame excuse. Let me tell you sir, the cheap thougts and kissing / flattering Britisg sarkar’s @#% seems to be the part of the faith of Qadiani / Ahmediyya religion. If you read qanoon-e-dikhai, you will feel ashamed of your muhadis. ANOTHER ONE, DON’T FORGET TO READ THE POEM IMMEDIATELY AFTER QANOONE DIKHAI AND ALSO READ ABOUT EYE WITNESS ACCOUNT OF A SEX SCENE DESCRIBED BY MIRZA SAHAB WHEN DESCRIBING NIYOG….

    I waited for sometime and feel that Its cowardice on part of Zahid Aziz and and evidence that all followers of Mirza cannot face the truth or criticism. All thay can do is to withhold comments that expose their falsehood to the bones.

    Good for you… lakum Deenakum Walyadeen. I am done with you guys.


  11. Let me explain step by step for you:

    1. You asked a question about the words used in the section “qanoon-e-dikhai” of the book “Arya Dharm”.

    2. I told you that the answer lies in the page immediately before this section, and also the first one and a half pages of the book show why he wrote the book.

    3. From your post now, it appears that you must have read these pages. So tell us why these pages don’t satisfy you?

    4. Failing all else, just read the one sentence immediately before the title “qanoon-e-dikhai” and then tell us: Isn’t that sentence relevant to where these words come from? Just answer “yes” or “no”.

    I am concentrating on this point because it exposes your tactics of misrepresentation and you are completely discredited.

    Here is some text from page 2 of this book. Do you agree with what Hazrat Mirza sahib has said below or not?

    Arya Dharm, p. 2


  12. January 29th, 2008 at 7:05 pm
    From Pleezing One:

    O my God… You shock me. You compltely disrgarded the two pages that he wrote, completly ignored his suggestion to British Government of the time with strong arguments and reasons in support of brining British prostiturtes for health and pleasure of British soldiers in India as the european prostitute are more civilised with no disease…..

    How can you not see this and how can close your eyes from the cheap and indcent thought presented by Mirza sahab?? Even a street molvi would not think so low……

    Now I know that we can insert images in the form, wait for more.

    And why have you removed my post on Nishan-e-Asmani?? Is this not a evidence that you are following a lie???

    In your heart Dr sahab, you know the truth, you know what I am saying and you know you have seen what I am talking about….. You can choose to ignore the truth… its upto you… But by deliberately ignoring you are only strengthening your false belief in Mirza sahab…..AND YOU KNOW THAT VERY WELL.


  13. As I said before, just read the one sentence immediately before the title “qanoon-e-dikhai”. Answer this question: Doesn’t this sentence tell you that this section is from a newspaper of the general Muslim community?

    You have not answered my question about the image from Arya Dharm that I posted. Do you think what Hazrat Mirza sahib says there about the Holy Prophet and Islam is correct or not?

    The fact that you haven’t answered it shows that you are an enemy of Islam and an enemy of the Holy Prophet Muhammad who cannot bear to express agreement with what Hazrat Mirza sahib has written there about the greatness of the Quran and the Holy Prophet. You have refused to endorse the prayer that Hazrat Mirza sahib has said in that extract for the Holy Prophet.

    What evidence is there that you are not in league with those detractors of the Holy Prophet that Hazrat Mirza sahib is refuting in this book? This would explain why you are so angry with Hazrat Mirza sahib, because he defended Islam and the Holy Prophet and you wish to degrade, defame and falsify Islam and the Holy Prophet, as Salman Rushdie did.


  14. January 29th, 2008 at 11:45 pm
    From Abdul Momin:

    Every time one of these Anti-Ahmadiyya nuts engages in a “discussion” with AAIIL, their pet argument is “Oh I thought you Lahoris were more reasonable than the Qadianis, but I know better now”. So to be forever “reasonable” in the eyes of these opponents, the AAIIL must AGREE with EVERYTHING they say, otherwise we risk losing our “CERTIFICATION” of being reasonable. We have heard this argument before.

    This guy is a prime example of what is wrong with the Muslim world today. A small minority of people with nothing but blind hatred for others based on ignorance and bigotry, all in the name of religion have hijacked the GREATEST OF ALL RELIGIONS.

    These ignoramuses present Ahmadiyya material out of context, just like the anti-Islam Evangelists in the Christain world present out of context passages from the Holy Quran. But like their Evangelist counterparts they have no shame. “Deaf, dumb and blind” would be the proper description for them.


  15. January 30th, 2008 at 4:58 am
    From pleeezing One:

    Zahid Aziz sb

    I have seen that page which you have been asking me to look at and in the process, out of your frusteration and anger, you called me ” you are an enemy of Islam and an enemy of the Holy Prophet Muhammad”. I would like to remind you that we Muslims never write holy prophet’s (pbuh) name with out obligatory salutation pbuh and which is very unusual for a so called “friend” of muhammed pbuh to forget.

    If you believe that Mirza sahab’s writings are devinely inspired like qadianis, then that whole essay should not have been there …He gave his blessingt by saying “WE DEEM IT APPROPRIATE TO write the geberal newpaper’s essay which is about this debate.” He did not condemn it, he ghave his blessings. My objection has been on the very thought that was put forwarded and sanctioned by mirtza sshab with his criminal silence on that essay.

    Let me quote here another incidenrt from the same book where there no doubts, that is:

    [URL=http://imageshack.us][IMG]http://img352.imageshack.us/img352/4846/eyewinessniyogaryadharamz0.png[/IMG][/URL]

    I hope you will give your views without calling me names, if you can. And I insist that the thread and my post on Nishan-e-Asmani must be restored, if not then what the use of writing on this forum if you cannot handle it?


  16. January 30th, 2008 at 6:18 am
    From Fazal Ahmadi:

    Mr.Zahid Aziz Sahib:

    You will never get answer from those people who present Hazrat Mirza Sahib’s writing from the middle of the pages and stimulate the before and after portion of the books which they refer according to their will and desire.
    Reason is very simple in your words which you refer to “Pleezing One”:

    Quote
    “This would explain why you are so angry with Hazrat Mirza sahib, because he defended Islam and the Holy Prophet and you wish to degrade, defame and falsify Islam and the Holy Prophet, as Salman Rushdie did”
    end quote.


  17. Pleeezing One, at long last you have now been forced to admit that those words are not written by Hazrat Mirza sahib. The allegation you made repeatedly is now proved to be false by your own reluctant admission.

    When did you first find out that these were not the words of Hazrat Mirza sahib? Or did you know it all the time but falsely pretended not to know?

    You are so shameless that instead of withdrawing your false allegation you now turn it into another allegation:

    Quote
    He gave his blessing by saying “WE DEEM IT APPROPRIATE TO write the general newspaper’s essay which is about this debate.”
    Unquote

    Through ignorance you have translated the name of the newspaper as “the general newspaper”. It is the name of the newspaper Akhbar-i-`Am which was a newspaper of the general Muslim community.

    Before quoting this article from the newspaper, Hazrat Mirza sahib wrote on the previous page that these problems would not arise if the teachings of Islam were followed:

    “But because in the Christian religion a second (polygamous) marriage is unlawful even at the time of dire necessity, therefore when the great thinkers of the Christian nations face these problems they do not consider polygamous marriage as a solution but with very great enthusiasm adopt immoral solutions. Those people who have read the Cantonment Act of 1889 can testify that it is because of these restrictions of the Christian religion that our thoughtful government faces these problems.”

    Hazrat Mirza is saying: you are facing the problems of soldiers using prostitutes because your religion rejects our Islamic teaching of polygamy.

    Do you admit that this is what he wrote?

    I am trying to prove that you are deliberately misrepresenting and distorting his writings. Once you are proved to be deceitful, a fraud and a liar, then the same applies to all your allegations. This is why we are concentrating on exposing you on this allegation.


  18. January 30th, 2008 at 5:16 pm
    From Abdul Momin:

    Quote:
    “I hope you will give your views without calling me names, if you can.”

    I think the poor guy’s feelings have been hurt. Typical of people of this kind who lack in basic etiquette, they think that only they have feelings. Those they oppose have hearts made of stone.

    This is what he said in an earlier post regarding the two Ahmadi jammaats:

    Quote:
    “To my utter disappointment, I must say that I find no difference between the two, both are equally hypocrite and blind followers.”

    It is all right for him to call others “hypocrite” but his feelings get hurt when the mirror is shown to him. AAINA UON KO DIKHAYA TU BURA MAAN GAYE.


  19. January 30th, 2008 at 5:52 pm
    From Pleezing One:

    Zahid Aziz Sahab,

    The problem with the followers of mirza jee is that they knowingly close their eyes from whatever filth he wrote and gave it a twist to fool people like you. I am being honest and straightforward and expect the same from you. You have been avoiing the issues all along. I asked you, ” If you believe that Mirza sahab’s writings are devinely inspired like qadianis, then that whole essay should not have been there …He gave his blessingt by saying “WE DEEM IT APPROPRIATE TO write the geberal newpaper’s essay which is about this debate.”

    Why did he ‘silently’ gave a seal of approval by writing it in his DIVINELY inspired book? Can such idea be a part of a devine message?

    Seconly, because you found a reason to hide behind avoid my objection, I gave mirza sahab describing an eyewitness accountan of a sex scene on page 31 of the same book. This one is very clear statement / writing of Mirza sahab which he did not copy from any other source, what do you think of that? The honesty demands that if mirza sb can write what is there on page 31 with “divine” help, he can write anything.

    I hope you will give your comments on what he wrote on pag 31.

    Also, I have been asking you to restore the other thread about Nishan-easmaani but you are ignoring it, why? tell everyone what that mirza has been proven a liar and a fabricateor of false ilhams and attributed them to God in Nishan-e-Asmani. Will you?

    If you don’t agree, then tell us why not?


  20. Perhaps Pleezing One can explain why it is that in Pakistan the Sunnis have forced the government to ban publication of Lahore Ahmadiyya literature before accusing Zahid of censorship


  21. January 30th, 2008 at 8:30 pm
    From Pleezing One:

    Shahid

    I don’t know what exactly happened and why Lahore Ahmadiyya literature is banned in Pakistan, ask the Pakistani government.

    But if you read page 31 of Aarya Dharam and many other pages including a poem about Niyog by Mirza ghulam qadiani, you will definately ban it from your household. If you don’t believe me, let Zahid Aziz poduce the scanned image here for your reading pleasures.


  22. Pleezing One, answer this question: When you were alleging that Hazrat Mirza sahib had himself written the section qanoon-e-dikhai, did you know at that point that he was quoting a newspaper? It seems you did know. If you didn’t know, please tell us. Otherwise it is proved that you deliberately deceived and lied, and you are convicted as a fraudster.

    You say: Why did he ’silently’ gave a seal of approval by writing it in his DIVINELY inspired book? Can such idea be a part of a devine message?

    Well, please tell us from where do you get this rule that a Divinely-inspired book should not quote other people’s wrong beliefs or immoral practices in order to condemn them. Where is this teaching given?

    I have called your bluff by making available page 31 at this link.

    Hazrat Mirza sahib is condemning the immoral act and those who committed it. Nowhere has he graphically described the sexual act in an objectionable way.

    The only people who can object to that page are the Arya Samaj opponents of Islam. This is why I said earlier that you are an opponent of Islam exactly like the foul-mouthed Aryas. Under the “Tauheen-i rasul” law in some Muslim countries you should be on trial.


  23. It is the same script with different characters. These anti-ahmadis come to our forums and blogs, copy and paste false charges against Mirza Sahib and when we press them on specific, they make their exit. The only act left in this drama is for pleezing one to make his exit: most probably by saying how disappointed he is with us and how we have not answered all of the allegation that he has posted/will post.

    I guess my dream of having one of these people admit wrong will remain a dream for now 🙁


  24. January 30th, 2008 at 10:21 pm
    From Abdul Momin:

    Since this poster (who pleases no one except perhaps his own ego and his Anti-Ahmadiyya brigands) has included this “objectionable” material so many times in his own posts, could it be the case that he also agrees with the contents of that newspaper article? If he did not agree with it, why does he repeats it again and again?


  25. January 30th, 2008 at 11:52 pm
    From Rashid Jahangiri:

    Reason behind early exit of “Pleeezing One”: About four years ago, on the forum of Canadian based website their moderator “Muslim” who was also participant in the discussion with another user name of “Sadiq” and many others user names made allegation that “Mirza Ji [HMGA] endorsed Muta [temporary marriage] in his writings”, and condemned him for writing such thing. Interestingly, he never gave the reference and asked me to find the reference and contact the (late) Mannan Omar sahib to find the reference. When ever I tried to corner him to expose his false allegations, by acting as a moderator he use to interject and DELETE my posts. It is quite possible that here “Pleeezing One” could be the same person. As this so called “Pleezing One” could not exercise his old craft on the forum, he looked for an early exit.
    Anyways, when I read book Arya Darham, it was clear that what HMGA sahib had written was diametrically opposite to the allegation. Briefly, HMGA sahib said that although we condemn practice of Muta, but given the prevalence of sexually transmitted disease among the British Army it would have been better if they had practiced Muta. Chances are they would be healthier.


  26. January 31st, 2008 at 12:50 am
    From pleeezing One:

    Zahid,

    I if I were you, I would also not post the image, instead I would give a link, its too graphic for kids to read it, and too bad to be posted as an image.

    If I were, I would keep avoiding and ignoring the continuous reminders about producing the thread Nishan-e-Asmani, it would prove mirza sahab a fraud and fabricator without a doubt.

    Look at the blind followers, singing the same mantra, not realizing that the eye winess account of a Hindu inviting a stranger to have sex with his wife by Mirza sahab is most disgusting thought one can present, and look, he did not forget to mention that Hindu was witnessing all that through the cracks of the doors!!!!! Is he a Muslim sscholor or a porno writer??

    If you do not restore the Nishann asmani thread, this will be an evidence that you know that Mirza sb was a liar and therefore, you cannot show that.

    I will wait and see when you restorte that thread then I will comment further.


  27. January 31st, 2008 at 1:44 pm
    From Abdul Momin:

    I wonder which Madressah this guy graduated from. Clearly his reasoning powers are not any better than a “street maulvi.”


  28. Pleezing One, you are not answering my questions.

    My first question is: On this forum when you started accusing Hazrat Mirza sahib of writing that section about the law of inspection, did you already know that it was actually a newspaper article he was quoting?

    Now my second question. If a book claiming to be from God talks about a prophet and his wife both losing their clothes so as to be made completely naked by a third party, and even the word “stripping” is used in this connection by some translators of that book, would you accept that book as a scripture from God?

    My third question

    Have you heard of the Masnavi by Maulana Jalal-ud-Din Rumi? When the British scholar R.A. Nicholson translated it into English from Persian he translated some sentences into Latin, not English, because they were so sexually explicit that ordinary readers in the West would have been shocked! Then in the 1960s a Pakistani Dr Afzal Iqbal wrote a book “The Life and Work of Jalaluddin Rumi” in which he translated them into English. This is what a reviewer of Afzal Iqbal’s book says:

    “The last chapter comprises of commentary and analysis regarding some 133 lines of Mathnavi which were latinised by the esteemed Professor Nicholson for its alleged eroticism and bestiality. Dr Afzal has analysed these assertions of the Professor where he has drawn similitude between Rumi and the likes of Apuleius and Petronius. Moreover the objectionable parts are rendered by the author into English for a wider audience to judge for themselves. The author has dicussed in sufficient detail the morals behind these graphical anecdotes and suggested that Rumi is no pedlar in pornography.”

    So my third question is: what do you think of the Masnavi of Rumi, which is so highly regarded by Muslims that it is known as “the Quran in the Persian language”.

    Please answer my three questions.


  29. January 31st, 2008 at 9:06 pm
    From Pleezing One:

    Zahid Aziz

    quote:

    My first question is: On this forum when you started accusing Hazrat Mirza sahib of writing that section about the law of inspection, did you already know that it was actually a newspaper article he was quoting?”

    Unquote:

    The answer is no, But I maintained that if Mirza sb’s writings are devinely inspired, then that piece of indecent writing should not have been there. My question is ” why Mirza deemed it appropriate to put such a writing and such an idea in a devilnely guided book? You fail to see the low taste of mirza shab when he gave a ” silent approval” to the suggestion. Otherwise what is the purpose of that piece?

    Quote:

    Now my second question. If a book claiming to be from God talks about a prophet and his wife both losing their clothes so as to be made completely naked by a third party, and even the word “stripping” is used in this connection by some translators of that book, would you accept that book as a scripture from God?

    Unquote:

    What you are trying here comparing mirza’s porno writings with some ” islamic ” writing. I want o see your refernce before commenting further. I can only say that its a common disease with both qadiani and now Lahoris, that they are ready to attack sanctity of holy personalities of Islam to defend a liar.

    Quote:

    My third question

    Have you heard of the Masnavi by Maulana Jalal-ud-Din Rumi? When the British scholar R.A. Nicholson translated it into English from Persian he translated some sentences into Latin, not English, because they were so sexually explicit that ordinary readers in the West would have been shocked! Then in the 1960s a Pakistani Dr Afzal Iqbal wrote a book “The Life and Work of Jalaluddin Rumi” in which he translated

    Unquote:

    Again, molana Runmi is not an authority for Muslims and Islam. I don’t know what are you talking but I can tell you that whatever he wrote is not an auithority for us nor is he a claiment of mamoor mina Allah, or nabi ot Muhadis… You mirza sahab is an authority for you… If you are saying that if molana rumi wrote filth and so did Mirza sab… then you are admiting that Mirza did write filtht……..If Molanai Rumi wrote something as you suggested, I can in one stroke reject his writings… can you do that for mirza’s writings? Here is the litmus test to know a follower of truth from a blind follower….

    Now answer my questions if you have the courage:

    Why Mirz sahab described in details the eye witness account of sex scene in his devinely inspired book? Can you read that to any decent person or to your household? Why you chose to keep that piece hiden behind a link and not on the page?

    My second question is:

    Why you continue to avoid the thread about Nishan e asmani? Are you too embarressed showing that? Mirza was not writing that… he is proven a liar and fabricator of false Ilham in that thread. Show me some courage and honesty and bring that thread….

    If not I will know that you believe in your heart that mirza sab is a liar and you cannot do anything about it…..
    I will not write further untill I see that thread because there is no point if you are going to hide behind your ” moderation” to avoid the truth..

    Good luck


  30. If you didn’t know beforehand, how was that possible? You had access to the book. You have been quoting other places from it.

    So what do you think now of the websites who have been circulating this allegation, that Mirza sahib wrote this, which you now know is false? Are you prepared to say that they are lying?

    You should be withdrawing your allegation. Instead you changed your allegation to “silent approval”. I am amazed you are now asking: “what is the purpose of that piece?” I have told you in a post above that before quoting this article from the newspaper, Hazrat Mirza sahib wrote on the previous page that these problems would not arise if the teachings of Islam were followed. He is saying: you are having to have such discussions because you reject the teachings of Islam.

    You have refused to answer my second question because you want to know which writing I am referring to. You should answer it as a matter of principle and not on the basis of which writing it is. Read the question again:

    If a book claims to be from God and it talks about a prophet and his wife reaching a state of nakedness in front of a third party who “stripped” them of their clothing, would you say that this is an indecent story and that book cannot be from God?

    (Hint: Think about “book from God”.)

    I never said Maulana Rumi wrote filth. I said a Pakistani scholar has proved that what people thought was filth was not so but had a moral message in the stories! Maulana Rumi has a huge following in Turkey, Iran, Pakistan and India. He is regarded as a spiritual guide by millions of Muslims.

    You say: “Why Mirz sahab described in details the eye witness account of sex scene in his devinely inspired book? Can you read that to any decent person or to your household? Why you chose to keep that piece hiden behind a link and not on the page?”

    There is no account of a sex scene. All he says is: “All night she was disgraced by him and that filthy man, overcome by lust, carried on doing highly shameful things with her.”

    To say I have hidden it behind a link is the most stupid statement ever made on the world-wide web. Everything is hidden behind a link until you click on it! You could say even this blog is hidden behind a link.

    So in answer to your challenge I repeat the link below:

    Here is the link.

    Here is the link for stupid people.

    Here is the link for even more stupid people.

    Is it hidden now?

    Your trick is to move from one allegation to another. When defeated here, instead of admitting that you were wrong, you want to move on to your Nishan-i Asmani allegation. If defeated there, you will move on to a third one. That is why I will keep you trapped here.


  31. I may not be able to operate this Weblog over the coming weekend, in which case any submissions from now on may just stay in a queue till late Sunday or early Monday. However, if possible I will try to keep it operational.


  32. February 1st, 2008 at 4:47 pm
    From Pleezing One:

    Tariq Aziz

    Quote:

    I can tell you that whatever he wrote is not an auithority for us nor is he a claiment of mamoor mina Allah, or nabi ot Muhadis… You mirza sahab is an authority for you… If you are saying that if molana rumi wrote filth and so did Mirza sab… then you are admiting that Mirza did write filth……..If Molana Rumi wrote something as you suggested, I can in one stroke reject his writings… can you do that for mirza’s writings? Here is the litmus test to know a follower of truth from a blind follower….

    Unquote:

    Yo have failed the test miserably .

    Quote:

    There is no account of a sex scene. All he says is: “All night she was disgraced by him and that filthy man, overcome by lust, carried on doing highly shameful things with her.”

    Unquote:

    You failed again, and resorted to lies.. which is expected. You guys lack moral courage to say the truth.. thats fine and you deserve that.

    And you look even more silly when you gave links marked ” link for stupid people etc….” again that shows the power of ” moderation” that keeps you hide behind these stupid acts. If you have have truth on your side, come clean and show the thread like it was …..don’r give answes like mirzs sahab used to do… always twist , change and stupi congregation of sincere ” goats” accpeted everything hje said.


  33. February 2nd, 2008 at 5:33 pm
    From Abdul Momin:

    ISLAMABAD, Feb 1: Scholar on religions Karen Armstrong has advised Muslims to use the pluralism and inclusiveness in Islam to overcome the intolerance prevailing in today’s world.

    “We are living in a world full of strife and intolerance which is pushing peoples into ideological ghettos,” she said in a lecture as guest of the Aga Khan Foundation and the International Islamic University Islamabad on Friday.

    Alongside the intolerance, however, existed the desire for understanding. She said the post-modern mind in the West was trying to reach out to old religious traditions and suggested Muslims should respond to it.

    Her next book on how the West came to atheism may be called “The Case for God”, she said.

    Ms Armstrong, who is world-renowned for her scholarship and books on religions, said, “intolerance hinders spiritual quest and leads to atrocities not compassion — the true test of religiosity”.

    She told her huge audience of university students and others that her books on Islam were meant to clear the minds of “my own people” about Islam. She has given to the revised edition of her popular biography of the Prophet of Islam the title Muhammad — the Prophet of our Times.

    “That’s my jihad against West’s Islamophobia,” she said about her literary works.

    Intolerance grows out of ignorance or bloated ego and can be conquered “by stepping out of self”, she observed.

    She quoted from Islamic history and the works of Rumi and Ibn al-Arabi to illustrate the pluralism in Islam and said the Christians in Al-Quds had such love for Salah ad-Din Ayyubi when he ejected the Crusaders from the holy city that they believed he was a Christian sent by God to free them of the Crusaders’ tyranny.

    “I have no idea but there is hope out there,” Ms Armstrong said to a question at the end of her lecture whether intolerance would be overcome.

    “We (the older generation) are stuck in our own ideas but you are not. You have clear, clean minds and have youthful energy to embrace the new,” she said addressing the university students filling the galleries of the Jinnah Convention Centre, the venue of her lecture.

    “Use technology to spread the compassion and respect for others that Islam teaches. You can save the world,” she said to great applause.

    It was the second lecture in a series of five that the Aga Khan Foundation has invited her to deliver in Pakistan on the pluralistic and intellectual traditions of Islam to mark the Golden Jubilee of Prince Karim Aga Khan, the spiritual leader of the Ismail Muslims.

    The Golden Jubilee year will see a number of endeavours aimed at building bridges within and outside the Muslim Ummah and also to catalyse new socio-economic, cultural and human development initiatives to realise the social conscience of Islam, and improve the quality of life of the less fortunate in society.

    END OF NEWSREPORT.

    THE ABOVE IS QUOTED FROM A PAKISTANI NEWSPAPER, DAWN dated February 2, 2008. The author quotes RUMI and Ibn-e-Arabi.

    So who needs the opinion of some BELOW AVERAGE INTELLIGENCE Madressah student whether Rumi wrote filth or he was a beacon of enlightenment? This guy needs to have his head examined.


  34. As an anonymous writer, it is easy for you to say: “If Molana Rumi wrote something as you suggested, I can in one stroke reject his writings”.

    It is very doubtful if you would dare reject his writings using your real name whereby other Muslims would know that you had done it. Other Muslims would condemn you or ridicule you as just an isolated crank.

    Want to know about the great repute of Rumi? Only two days ago it was reported in Pakistani newspapers about the religious scholar Karen Armstrong’s visit to Pakistan that:

    “She quoted from Islamic history and the works of Rumi and Ibn al-Arabi to illustrate the pluralism in Islam” (The Dawn, 1 February).

    You could never afford to antagonise the many Muslims who admire Rumi because the whole basis of the anti-Ahmadiyya organisations is to gain popularity with Muslims.

    You have once again refused to answer my question that if a book talks about a prophet and his wife reaching a state of nakedness in front of a third party who “stripped” them of their clothing, would you say that this is an indecent story and that book cannot be from God?

    Now let me quote two stories from another book which is accepted by the vast majority of Muslims:

    “Once Solomon, son of David said, ‘(By Allah) Tonight I will have sexual intercourse with one hundred (or ninety-nine) women each of whom will give birth to a knight who will fight in Allah’s Cause.’ … but he did not say, ‘Allah willing.’ Therefore only one of those women conceived and gave birth to a half-man. … if he had said, ‘Allah willing’, he would have begotten sons all of whom would have been knights striving in Allah’s Cause.”

    Let me ask you the same question which you asked me above: Can you read that to any decent person or to your household?

    Here is another story from the same book:

    “(people of) Bani Israel used to take bath naked (all together) looking at each other. The Prophet Moses used to take a bath alone. They said, ‘By Allah! Nothing prevents Moses from taking a bath with us except that he has a scrotal hernia.’ So once Moses went out to take a bath and put his clothes over a stone and then that stone ran away with his clothes. Moses followed that stone saying, “My clothes, O stone! My clothes, O stone! till the people of Bani Israel saw him and said, ‘By Allah, Moses has got no defect in his body. Moses took his clothes and began to beat the stone.”

    Apparently, this miracle was made to happen so that Moses would appear naked before his people.

    So, do you also “in one stroke” reject the book containing these two stories? The words used in the above English translation of these stories are not mine but those of a Sunni scholar who translated the book.


  35. April 8th, 2017 at 6:50 pm
    From Akif hadeed:

     jis rat mirza ki mma us k bap k sath soi the agar us rat wo kisi soor ya kuttay sy chudwa laiti to yakeenun mirza laeen sy acha result ata. nae yakeen ata to aj b koi qadiyani larrki yeh ker k daikh lay. sary qadiyanun sy acha bacha paida hoga.

    (Note by Admin: I have published this comment to show the calibre of the anti-Ahmadiyya activists. Translated this reads as follows: "On the night when Mirza's mother slept with his father, if that night she had had intercourse with a pig or a dog then certainly the result would have been better than the accursed Mirza. If you don't believe this, then even today a Qadiani girl can try this. A child better than all Qadianis will be born."

    This correspondent is recommending people to perform a highly immoral act, which is also a criminal act even in non-Muslim countries, i.e. bestiality, and says that the result will be better than through a natural and moral act!)


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