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Archive for June, 2010

Article equates Qadianis with Baha’is

Monday, June 28th, 2010

Submitted by Rashid Jahangiri.

Fulfillment of a prediction of Maulana Muhammad Ali sahib.

Going through Raza Rumi blog, on PTH, I came across on an interesting comment by him:

“One of the biggest verdicts Montazeri passed was to call for the acceptance and recognition of the Baha’i (an offshoot similar to that of the Ahmedi faith which is seen as heretical by most mainstream Muslims) as Iranian citizens deserving of equal rights and responsibilities:”

He has equated “Ahmadi [Qadiani-ahmadis] Faith” in Pakistan to Baha’i faith in Iran.

Maulana Muhammad Ali sahib (of Lahore Ahmadiyya Movement) had warned Qadiani Jamaat Khalifa 2 Mirza Mahmud Ahmad (QK-2) from making changes in claims of Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad sahib (HMGA), and demanding from his followers to accept the changed belief regarding status of HMGA, (at time of split in Ahmadiyya Movement in 1914 and afterwards). Maulana Muhammad Ali sahib had warned QK-2 that with your attitude you people will end up like Baha’is in Iran. And today that time has come when even secular, and Sufi journalist/ and columnist like Raza Rumi has started equating Qadianis to Baha’is.
Indeed today is a sad day!

See link here.

Will LAM allow other muslims to use any of their mosques?

Sunday, June 27th, 2010

Islamic Knight sent me the above question (the first in a list), but first I must tell readers how it arose.

Islamic “Einstein” made a dazzling discovery from one of the biographies of our elders in the HOPE Bulletin, and e-mailed me that a brother of Maulana Muhammad Ali did not want to pray behind non-Ahmadis and that: “he even went to court and won a case which allowed him to read his prayers separately in a mosque.”

Please see the March 2009 issue of HOPE, p. 6, under heading “Issue of Masjid”.

To any normal person, what the above account conveys is that there was an abandoned, disused mosque in an area of a certain town. In 1907 or so, Ahmadis, led by Maulvi Aziz Bakhsh (Maulana Muhammad Ali’s brother), repaired it and started using it for prayers and other functions. Seeing this, the opponents brought their own maulvi to the mosque, and started disrupting the Ahmadi use of the mosque. This led to altercations between the two sides, and the district magistrate called both sides to his court. He asked each side if they objected to the other’s use of the mosque for prayer. Maulvi Aziz Bakhsh replied that Ahmadis had no objection. But the Sunnis replied that Ahmadis could not be allowed in as the mosque belonged to the Hanafis. The magistrate recognised that the Sunni side was the trouble-maker, and allowed Ahmadis to continue using the mosque.

Islamic Knight keeps on repeating the falsehood that Ahmadis “went to court”, as if they sued in court. They were called to court, like the Sunnis. It was not at all, as he represents, that Ahmadis were allowed by the Sunnis to pray behind them, but they went to court asking for the right of a separate service. The Sunnis wanted Ahmadis expelled. The Ahmadis told the magistrate that they didn’t want the Sunnis expelled, and that if they wish to pray separately they can do so.

Islamic Knight says that never mind that the mosque was derelict and disused. Because it was built by Sunnis, it belonged to them and they had the right to bar Ahmadis from it. This is why he has asked me the question: “Would the LAM allow other muslims to use any of their mosques and hold separate prayer services?”

Before giving further explanation, let me say that the answer is YES.

If praying is their objective, and not expelling us from our mosque, then they are most welcome. Note that our opponent Muslims don’t even consider that our mosques can be called mosques, and there is a law in Pakistan that Ahmadis can’t call their “places of worship” as mosques. So why would they want to come? But if any of them did wish to come and pray, then we would take that as a sign that they regard our mosques as mosques, and certainly by implication they regard us as Muslims.

Their reason for praying in our mosques could be that they regard them as providing an atmosphere more conducive to salaat than their own mosques!

By coming to pray in our mosques, they would at least see that we pray in the same way as they do. They would have to accept that the direction that our prayer area is facing is the correct direction.

We would say to them: why hold separate services? Hold one combined service with one of you as imam, and hold the next combined service with one of us as imam.

When the Woking Mosque in England was under the management of imams of the LAM (1913 to mid 1960s), Muslims of all sects came to the mosque, and quite frequently on big occasions someone from another sect (including Shiahs) would lead the whole congregation. Conversely, many famous figures in the Muslim world prayed behind LAM imams at the Woking Mosque.

Since the Woking Mosque has been under Barelvi control in the past 40 years, any LAM member would be expelled from even being present in the mosque.

LAM articles on our critics blog

Saturday, June 26th, 2010

Submitted by Rashid Jahangiri.

Qadianis Declare Other Muslims as Kafir
In Anti Ahmadiies on June 21, 2010 at 5:58 am

During Goggling I found following piece from not any other place but from Lahori Ahmadiya Group website.

See link.

Hadith about kufr of calling a Muslim kafir

Saturday, June 26th, 2010

I quote below in full a post from Islamic Knight (may be it’s from Bashir, the style is exactly the same) on the reference he has been asking me for.


I spent an entire day searching for the reference point in terms of a statment by MGAQ. MGAQ stated over and over again that here was a hadith in which the HP (saw) said that if a muslim calls another muslim (who is really a good muslim) a Kafir, then the KUFR reverts to the reciter.

Muhammad Ali didnt reference this in his book “A refutation of calling a believer a Kafir”.

Muhammad Ali gives an entire page of references that are similiar, but he never found the reference that MGAq referred to.

here is where ALI refers to the statements:


Zahid Aziz, you appear to have purposely not answered my question because you knew that the reference in question was bogus. It just doesnt exist. That appears to be the reason why you didnt answer. Did i beat the best scholar from the LAM? And that was on accident…i actually really had never looked into this reference and statement by MGAQ.

FYI: Its a figure of speech. If a muslim steals he committed KUFR, it doesnt actually mean that he was a kafir for that time period. Its just a figure of speech. And i figured that out al on my own.


If I can’t answer this question, why have I published his e-mail!

Just read his last paragraph and laugh at his claim. Earlier he was ridiculing us for talking about “first type of kafir” and “seocnd type of kafir”, and now he has figured it out “on my own”. And it’s his own discovery, even though he read it in the above cited book by Maulana Muhammad Ali.

Mr Islamic Knight, Hazrat Mirza sahib asked his opponents to go to their Ulama and ask them if they deny holding the belief that kufr reflects back on a Muslim who calls another as kafir. The reference isn’t given by Hazrat Mirza sahib, or by Maulana Muhammad Ali in this particular book, because it is so widely accepted by Muslim ulama.

Therefore please read the article by Maulana Maudoodi at this link.

Can members of Lahore Ahmadiyya Movement perform Hajj?

Wednesday, June 23rd, 2010

An opponent of the Ahmadiyya Movement has been e-mailing me using the name “Islamic Knight”, and attacking the Lahore Ahmadiyya Movement. Some of his allegations are downright lies, because he studies our websites and refers to them, so he knows the true position.

He has told me now in an e-mail:

“LAM people can never perform HAJJ. All the imams of arabia call u people KUFR.”

In response I have offered to make a sworn statement that I personally know several prominent members of the Lahore Ahmadiyya Movement who have performed Hajj, including a head of the LAM, and three well-known missionaries of the LAM. Apart from these, there are many others whom I don’t know personally.

Those I knew personally include: Dr Saeed Ahmad Khan sahib (1947 and 1950), Maulana Abdul Haq Vidyarthi (1962), Mumtaz Ahmad Faruqui, Shaikh Muhammad Tufail (1966), Mrs Razia Madad Ali (1970), Mr Abdur Rahim Jaggoe (see below), many of our members in Holland, and our members in USA.

(One of our members in Holland gave me an Urdu translation of the Quran that he received there as a gift given by the Saudi government to pilgrims.)

Those I didn’t know personally would form a long list, starting with Khwaja Kamal-ud-Din (1914 and 1923), Khwaja Nazir Ahmad, and Maulana Sadr-ud-Din. Maulana Muhammad Ali had booked his passage for Hajj but fell ill and had to cancel.

From Holland and Suriname in particular large numbers of LAM members go to perform Hajj. In the biography of our international, roving missionary, the late Mr Jaggoe (d. 2007) of Suriname and Holland, it is written:

“… he organised large groups to perform Hajj in Saudi Arabia for consecutive five years. During these trips he also took the groups to India and Pakistan. Impressed by his commendable service to his community in leading Hajj groups to Saudi Arabia, whereby more and more people became interested in the performance of Hajj, KLM arranged a chartered flight to Saudi Arabia and requested Maulana Jaggoe to lead this special Hajj flight. Afterwards he led several Umrahs [visting Makkah] groups to Makkah. In total he performed 2 Umrahs and seven Hajjs.” (See this link.)

Is this “Islamic Knight” prepared to make a sworn statement, under his real name and identity, to the effect that my statement above is false?

Front page of ‘Mashriq’ (8th) September 1974

Monday, June 21st, 2010

At this link you can view a pdf file of the front page coverage in the Pakistani Urdu newspaper Mashriq on the day after Ahmadis were declared non-Muslim on 7 September 1974. I remember such front pages from that time.

(Acknowledgements to a Qadiani Jamaat member who has circulated this.)

The small print is faily readable on magnification.

Listen to Bhutto’s statement in the Assembly:

“Amidst the echo of fervent applause by members of the Assembly, the Prime Minister said: Islam is our faith. As far as the People’s Party is concerned, it considers Islam as above all else.”

and then only two lines later he said:

“The People’s Party has pledged to adopt the economic principles of Socialism.”

The same party which “considers Islam as above all”!

The news states that the National Assembly, and also the Senate, passed this resolution unanimously. Is there any other example from any country of the world where a measure was passed unanimously? Even tyrants and dictators claim to win in their countries by, say 95%, but never 100%.

Another Express TV program on Qadianis and Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad sahib

Saturday, June 19th, 2010

Submitted by Rashid Jahangiri.

Express News TV, Program: Point Blank, Host: Mubashir Lucman
Guests: Ulema from Majlis Tahafuz-e-Khatma-e-Nabuwat; Jamaat-e-Ulema-e-islam (Noorant group); Jamaat Ahle-Hadith.
Date: June 16, 2010
Host email address:

Click on link to watch the program
If link does not work check it on

After watching the TV program I sent following email to Mubashir Lucman sahib:

Dear brother Mubashir Lucman sahib:
Aslam Alikum,

Today I watched your TV show Point Blank aired on June 16, 2010 on the subject of Qadiani beliefs. I think it’s a great idea to hold public debate in your program, as you have put it very aptly “to do unlimited number of shows on this subject”.

I am member of Lahore Ahmadiyya Movement (aka Lahori-Ahmadis or Lahori-group). I am sure you must be aware that there are two factions of Ahmadis. In 1914 Ahmadiyya Jammat split and its members that moved to Lahore are called Lahori-Ahmadis, and those who remained in Qadian, India are called Qadiani-Ahmadis. Later Qadiani-Ahmadis moved to Rabwah (now Chenab Nagar), Pakistan. And since mid 1980s their Khalifa is residing in London. I don’t know if you‘re aware about the differences between these two factions. Anyways, there are very fundamental differences between the two factions.
Briefly, Lahori-Ahmadis hold beliefs:
1-All reciters of Kalima-Shahada are Muslims.
2- Holy Prophet Muhammad (SAWS) is the LAST prophet/ messenger of Allah (SWT).
No new or old prophet can come after him.
3- Mirza Ghulam Ahmad sahib of Qadian was only a Mujaddid (reformer) of 14th Islamic Hijra century.
4- It is NOT must to believe in Mirza Ghulam Ahmad sahib for a Muslim.
5- Lahore Ahmadiyya Movement is only an organization for propagation of rational, tolerant, peaceful, inspiring, non-sectarian message of Islam. Mostly focused on taking its mission of service to Islam to Christian countries of Europe and Americas.
6- If some Muslim brother/ sister wants to join our organization they are expected to volunteer their time, energies and finances as much as they can afford comfortably for propagation of Islam.
7- Every Muslim and non-Muslim is welcome to read, benefit and propagate message of Islam published by Lahore Ahmadiyya Movement (LAM) literature. LAM literature is available online and in print. There websites:
8- Like Pakistani Islamic scholar Javed Ahmad Ghamdi and other Islamic Scholars in countries outside Pakistan, Lahori-Ahmadis hold belief that Hazrat Isa AS (Jesus) has died and will NOT return to this earth in physical form.

Mubashir Lucman sahib you’re this effort will go a long way in service of Islam and Pakistan. I can start answering to accusations made by your guests; actually they are as old as Ahmadiyya Movement started by Mirza Ghulam Ahmad Qadiani sahib. They have been answered zillion times by LAM and available on their websites referred above. Instead I want to request you and bring some information to your knowledge:

1- It will be highly appreciated if in one of your TV program you can mention about LAM and their beliefs, as given above.

2- If you can raise issue on your TV program that Government of Pakistan should officially make public 1974 National Assembly sessions proceedings (including the first TWO days when LAM representative testified) that passed 2nd amendment to 1973 constitution declaring both groups i.e. Lahori-Ahmadis and Qadiani-Ahmadis as non-Muslim (Kafir). After all it has been more than 35 years, and under Pakistani law confidential documents can be made public after 25 years. Record of 2nd amendment does not contain any national security issue. Especially when it has been many years since Hamud-ur-Rehman inquiry commission report on fall of Dacca has been made public. And that report dealt with national security issues.

3- It might be information for you that in early to mid 1980s there was a court case between LAM and Muslim Ulema in South Africa. Muslim Ulema were supported by all the prominent ulema from Pakistan and other countries. This case was tried in an impartial court and an impartial judge gave the decision. The decision was in favour of LAM. Interestingly Muslim Ulema from Pakistan decided not to defend their case saying that, “a non-Muslim court can not decide a case of Muslim”. They forgot Pakistan also had famous non-Muslim Supreme Court judges from Justice Alvin Robert Cornelius to as recent as Justice Rana Bhagwandas. Anyways, the South African court case was published in Pakistani Law book: Pakistan Supreme Court Cases, March, 1986, Vol V, Part 3
(Chief Editor: Malik Muhammad Qayyum, Advocate Supreme Court)
The judgment said:

(a) Ahmadis (Lahori)
— Held: Ahmadis are Muslims. (Para 67, 68, 83)
(b) Ahmadis
— Mirza Ghulam Ahmad – Founder of Ahmadis sect of Muslim —
Held:Mirza Ghulam Ahmad was “Wali” or “Mujadid” and not the prophet.
(Para 27)
(c ) Ahmadis (Lahori)
— Muslim Mosque – Admittance of –Entitlement of – Ahmadis (Lahori)
— Held: Ahmadis (Lahori) are entitled to admittance to Muslim mosque held under dead of transfer dated 11-2-1881 (Para 83)
(d) Ahmadis (Lahori)
— Muslim cemetery –Burial – Right of –Ahmadi (Lahori)
— Held: Ahmadi (Lahori) has right of burial in Muslim cemetery as another Muslims have. (Para 83)
(e) Ahmadis (Lahori)
— Muslims – Right of propagation against Ahmadis – Muslims restrained from disseminating, Publishing or otherwise Propagating false, harmful malicious and defamatory matter of and concerning members of the Ahmadiyya Anjuman Ashati Islam Lahore South Africa to wit, that such members are non-Muslims disbelievers “Kafir, apostates, murtads” that they are non-believers. (Para 83)
(f) Ahmadis
— Founder of Ahmadi Sect – Claims of – Stated:-
(i) He denied receiving wahy nubuwwat (prophethood) and affirmed receiving wahy wilayat (sainthood).
(ii) He denied the use of Prophet (nabi) in its technical sense and affirmed the use of this term in its literal sense.
(iii) He denied that the term muhaddas could be applied to him in its literal sense and affirmed that he was a muhaddas in the technical sense.
(iv) He denied being an actual or real prophet and affirmed being a metaphorical prophet.

The SCANNED PAGES of Pakistan Supreme Court cases are available on Lahori-Ahmadis websites. See the link: (Scroll to bottom of the link).

To read it in text form please visit:

It is very unfortunate that Lahori-Ahmadis are bundled together with Qadiani-Ahmadis. And Pakistani masses, politicians and Ulema wrongly think since Lahori-Ahmadis also hold belief that Mirza Ghulam Ahmad Qadiani was a truthful person, so they “must” hold the same belief as Qadiani-Ahmadis.

Did Qadiani Jamaat support creation of Pakistan?

Saturday, June 19th, 2010

Submitted by Rashid Jahangiri.

These days on secular forums, blogs (e.g. Pak Tea House) and in some newspaper columns an impression is being created that Qadianis at their organizational level under command of their leader Qadiani Jamaat Khalifa 2 Mirza Mahmud Ahmad (QK2) were great supporters of Pakistan, and worked for it.

Apparently, it appears to be the case. But when we look little deeper into historical facts and events things don’t remain as black and white, rather they turn into gray and further research highlights ulterior motives of Qadianis and their QK2.

Qadianis claim that it was their missionary in England Mr. Abdul Rahim Dard who convinced Quaid-I-Azam Muhammad Ali Jinnah to return to India and work for independent homeland for Muslims. It is also true Sir Zafarullah Khan authored the Pakistan Resolution. Represented Muslims in Redcliff boundary commission. And later became first foreign minister of Pakistan.

When we see little deep into the matter we see that Qadiani Missionary Abdul Rahim Dard did NOT consider non-Qadiani Muslims in India as Muslims. (Reference: Lord Headley while answering a set of questions posed to him, wrote in “Islam, The Guide to Modern Religious Thought” – Islamic Review, June 1929, pg 201-204, Vol XVII, No. 6, pub. The Mosque, Woking, England.). So there was no point in doing efforts for Muslims.

QK2 always boasted of his “spirituality” over Lahori-Ahmadiyya elders (who he declared Murtad {heretics}). He supported his claim by staying in Qadian where Ahmadiyya Movement of Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad (HMGA) originated. HMGA founded the Bahishti Muqbarah (Heavenly Graveyard) there. And HMGA was buried there along with others such as Maulana Noor Ud Din sahib.

QK2 had instructed his followers to stay put in Qadian. Reference: The paper Al-Fazl (Note: The Official Organ of the Rabwah Jama’at), Qadian of 12th September 1947 carried the following news on page 3: “On the night between 10th and 11th September, the news was broadcast from Radio Pakistan that the respected Imam of the Ahmadiyya Jamaat, Qadian, after consulting representatives of his Jamaat has decided that all Ahmadis of East Punjab, particularly those of the Qadian Jamaat, should stay where ever they are. They should not leave their stations under any circumstances. Women and children should be evacuated to Western Punjab. They can be brought back as soon as conditions improve.” (It is different point that immediately after issuing these instructions to his followers, Mirza Bashiruddin Mahmood Ahmad fled from Qadian and took refuge in Lahore.).

Even after QK2 and his followers had immigrated to Pakistan they had plans to move back to Qadian, India. His intentions were supported by the fact that he prohibited his followers to file claims for evacuee property in Pakistan. (Although his family did file and got evacuee property allotted in their favor. Reference: Haqqiqat Passand Party literature).

Now question is what QK2 actually wanted:
QK2 wanted a temporal power in a region where he could rule and have administrative powers. He was hoping that just like descendants of Messiah of Nazareth i.e. Jesus became rulers, may be he a descedant of Messiah of Muhammad could also become some sort of ruler.
QK2 efforts and statements before and after creation of Pakistan in 1947 support his real intentions.

1- QK2 was in negotiation with Nehru to get some sort of Special Status for Qadian after India wins freedom. Where QK2 can have some sort of temporal powers, like princely states in British raj. (I have read to this effect, just can’t recall the reference at the moment).

2- QK2 while chairman of Kashmir Committee was supplying reports of its confidential meetings to Viceroy. As poet Sir Muhammad Iqbal, himself a member of Kashmir Committee, came to know about it, turned against QK2, and from that point his opposition to Qadianis started. (I was orally told about QK2 reports to viceroy, by a person who had detail knowledge of Qadiani Jamaat and QK2. I don’t have any written reference).

3- QK2 continued to dream about temporal power even after he had migrated to Pakistan. He expressed his plans to settle his Qadiani followers in Quetta, Baluchistan. There by sheer number of Qadiani population he would gain temporal powers. (Reference: Haqqiqat Passand Party literature).

CONCLUSION: In my conclusion QK2 had ulterior motives to gain temporal powers in some region, as it became obvious that British rulers will sooner or later quit India. To gain temporal powers QK2 first tried in India and then in Pakistan. Those who know Qadiani jamaat will agree that no one in important positions in their jamaat does anything without the approval of their Qadiani Khalifas. So, I’m inclined to accept that Abdul Rahim Dard’s contact with Quaid-I-Azam Muhammad Ali Jinnah must be on instructions of QK2. As far as Sir Zafarullah Khan was concerned Quaid-I-Azam would have terminated ZK services in a minute if ZK had deviated from Quaid-I-Azam instructions.

ON THE OTHER HAND we see elders of Lahore Ahmadiyya Movement whole-heartedly supported creation of Pakistan, and prayed for Pakistan. Even Quaid-I-Azam stayed in touch with LAM elders and forwarded mails to them regarding Islam.
Few references:

Mujib-ur-Rahman’s statement on MTA about janaza prayers

Monday, June 14th, 2010

Submitted by Rashid Jahangiri.

Qadiani Jamaat Khalifa 4 and now 5 and others in the leadership and important positions in their jamaat have started to violate and reject beliefs and instructions of their Qadiani Jamaat Khalifa 2 and his younger brother Mirza Bashir Ahmad. Mirza Mahmud Ahmad has written and said in his numerous writings that all those who have not accepted Promised Messiah Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad as prophet are Kafir (non-Muslim) and even their young children are non-Muslims and it is not permitted to offer their Janazah (funeral prayer).

And now their Spokesman Mr. Mujib-ur-Rehman has made absolutely 180 degree turn.

On their TV channel MTA there was a live programme on Saturday 12th June called “Raah-i Huda”. Mr Mujib-ur-Rahman was interviewed from Pakistan by telephone at just before 6.00 p.m. UK time.

In regard to the allegation that the Qadiani Jamaat does not hold janaza prayers of non-Ahmadi Muslims, Mr Mujib-ur-Rahman stated most forcefully that saying janaza prayers is a “fard-i kifaya” in Islam, and that this means that if any other Muslims have held the janaza prayers of a non-Ahmadi then there is no requirement for the Qadiani Jamaat to hold them as well. He added that in the case where there were no other Muslims who could hold the janaza prayers of a non-Ahmadi (for example, in a foreign country with few Muslims), then the Qadiani Jamaat does hold janaza prayers for that non-Ahmadi. He was proud that if there are no other Muslims to hold the janaza prayers for a non-Ahmadi, then the Qadiani Jamaat holds it.

He also stated that if non-Ahmadi Muslims started saying janaza prayers for deceased members of the Qadiani Jamaat, then they would start holding them for non-Ahmadis deceased persons.

He also stated that in the time of the Promised Messiah, before he was declared kafir, Ahmadis used to pray behind non-Ahmadi imams and join janaza prayers behind non-Ahmadi imams. But after he was declared kafir, then according to Hadith this declaration of takfir reflected back upon his opponents. Mr Mujib-ur-Rahman stated that this was the only reason why his Jamaat members do not say janaza prayers of a non-Ahmadi behind a non-Ahmadi imam.

For comparison with these statements of Mr Mujib-ur-Rahman, please see attached statements of Mirza Mahmud Ahmad from books which are on the Qadiani Jamaat website

For additional references, see the following on

Musalman Wohi Hay Jo Saab Mamoron Ko Maany by Mirza Mahmud Ahmad
Page 3 and 4 of pdf format online edition: See book no. 9 on this page

Kalima-Tul-Fasal by Mirza Bashir Ahmad. Just read the first few pages of this book:

Nawaz Sharif calls Ahmadis “brethren” and “asset for Pakistan”

Monday, June 7th, 2010

I am grateful to a member of our Jamaat in Trinidad for sending me this news item:

“… He [Nawaz Sharif] also termed terrorists attack at the worship places of Ahmadis in model town and Ghari Shahu condemnable adding that Ahmadis are our brethren and asset for the country. He also informed that the elements involved in firing at Ahmadis worship places have been arrested and law enforcement agencies have been carrying out investigations with them.

Tehreek-e-Khatme-Nabuwat has meanwhile warned Nawaz Sharif against making such statements if he still wants to stay popular with his voters.”

See this link.