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June 23rd, 2010

Can members of Lahore Ahmadiyya Movement perform Hajj?

An opponent of the Ahmadiyya Movement has been e-mailing me using the name “Islamic Knight”, and attacking the Lahore Ahmadiyya Movement. Some of his allegations are downright lies, because he studies our websites and refers to them, so he knows the true position.

He has told me now in an e-mail:

“LAM people can never perform HAJJ. All the imams of arabia call u people KUFR.”

In response I have offered to make a sworn statement that I personally know several prominent members of the Lahore Ahmadiyya Movement who have performed Hajj, including a head of the LAM, and three well-known missionaries of the LAM. Apart from these, there are many others whom I don’t know personally.

Those I knew personally include: Dr Saeed Ahmad Khan sahib (1947 and 1950), Maulana Abdul Haq Vidyarthi (1962), Mumtaz Ahmad Faruqui, Shaikh Muhammad Tufail (1966), Mrs Razia Madad Ali (1970), Mr Abdur Rahim Jaggoe (see below), many of our members in Holland, and our members in USA.

(One of our members in Holland gave me an Urdu translation of the Quran that he received there as a gift given by the Saudi government to pilgrims.)

Those I didn’t know personally would form a long list, starting with Khwaja Kamal-ud-Din (1914 and 1923), Khwaja Nazir Ahmad, and Maulana Sadr-ud-Din. Maulana Muhammad Ali had booked his passage for Hajj but fell ill and had to cancel.

From Holland and Suriname in particular large numbers of LAM members go to perform Hajj. In the biography of our international, roving missionary, the late Mr Jaggoe (d. 2007) of Suriname and Holland, it is written:

“… he organised large groups to perform Hajj in Saudi Arabia for consecutive five years. During these trips he also took the groups to India and Pakistan. Impressed by his commendable service to his community in leading Hajj groups to Saudi Arabia, whereby more and more people became interested in the performance of Hajj, KLM arranged a chartered flight to Saudi Arabia and requested Maulana Jaggoe to lead this special Hajj flight. Afterwards he led several Umrahs [visting Makkah] groups to Makkah. In total he performed 2 Umrahs and seven Hajjs.” (See this link.)

Is this “Islamic Knight” prepared to make a sworn statement, under his real name and identity, to the effect that my statement above is false?

5 Responses to “Can members of Lahore Ahmadiyya Movement perform Hajj?”

  1. “Islamic Knight” forgot that he is more of a crusader than a jihadist, as “knight” is more of a Christian phenomenon than Muslim. I am not sure as to what side is he fighting for i.e for Islam or against Islam. How silly of him.

    “Islamic Knight” opinionates: “LAM people can never perform HAJJ. All the imams of arabia call u people KUFR.”

    Whereas, in the opinion of Allah:

    3:97. Therein are clear Memorials: (The first is) the Place where Abraham stood for prayers (- Maqâm Ibrahîm); (secondly,) whosoever enters it (- the valley of Bakkah) is in a state of peace and security; (thirdly,) Pilgrimage to the House (- Ka`bah) is due to Allâh from everyone of mankind who is (physically, financially and in many other ways) able and has the means to make the journey thereto. And whosoever disobeys (let him remember that) Allâh is Independent of the worlds.

    3:98. Say, `O you people of the Scripture! Why do you deny the Messages of Allâh, while Allâh is Witness to all that you do.’

    3:99. Say, `O people of the Scripture! Why do you hinder him who believes, from (following) the path of Allâh? You try to seek crookedness in it, while you yourselves are witnesses (to its truth). And Allâh is not at all unmindful of what you do.’

    The bottom line for Hajj:

    Pilgrimage to the House (- Ka`bah) is due to Allâh from everyone of mankind
    that includes everyone, and Mr. Islamic Knight, Why do you hinder him who believes, from (following) the path of Allâh to perform Hajj.

    As to the dogmatic knight riding the imbecility:

    Why do you deny the Messages of Allâh, while Allâh is Witness to all that you do.’
    It would be a mistake to expect wisdom from an arrogant that kisses the cover of the Book but is ignorant of the contents therein. He does not have the capacity to handle Messages of Allâh from Allah. But I have not lost hope. The same people, who denied early Muslims the Hajj, later became stalwarts of a progressive Islam.

    [The Holy Quran – Nooruddin] 

  2. June 24th, 2010 at 10:39 am
    From Zahid Aziz:

    Islamic Knight is willing to accept my statement in the post above, but as usual he doesn’t feel the least regret that he was factually wrong, he doesn’t reflect that he could be similarly wrong in his other assertions, but he deflects it to another point.

    He says:
    By the rules laid down by MGAQ, if muslims call u Kafir, u cannot pray behind them in any circumstance.  So why are your people even going to Mecca for Hajj.  All the imams there have declared you people as KAFIR of the first kind the second kind and every other type in existence.

    I agree, they performed the Hajj, but did they ask those imam’s as to what they thought about MGAQ?  Probabbly not!  Thats the point that you are overlooking. 

    He is referring here to Hazrat Mirza sahib’s advice that an Ahmadi should ask the non-Ahmadi imam what he thinks of Mirza sahib to decide if he can pray behind them.

    Before answering this, I note that his comments indicate that he has also left the religion of Islam (after leaving the Qadiani Jamaat; he says he is USA born in a Pakistani Qadiani family). He writes: ” I am a consientious objector.” If so, then he himself is a kafir and non-Muslim according to the very same Ulama who call us kafir!

    He ridicules the saying of the Holy Prophet Muhammad that if a Muslim calls another kafir, it reflects back on the caller. He asks me in which book of hadith it is. I told him, all Muslim Ulama accept this hadith. Let him ask them where it is. Let them do the reference finding work which he has been getting me to do!

    When he writes above “kafir of the first kind, second kind, every kind …” he is poking fun at the whole of Islamic jurisprudence and all those great jurists and ulama who wrote about the concept of primary and secondary kufr. Ask the Ulama if they haven’t heard of the principle of Islamic law: Al-kufru sanfaan. That’s just two simple words!

    As to his question about did our members ask the imams at the hajj before praying what they thought of Hazrat Mirza sahib, and then pray only if they called him a Muslim there are several points to be noted here.

    The vast majority of Muslims from Pakistan and India who go to the hajj belong to the non-Wahhabi Ahl-i Sunna, who have been long declaring Saudi Arab imams as kafir. Even before HMGA came on the scene, these hanafi Sunnis used to throw Wahhabis out of mosques and court cases in India (going up to London) between sunnis and wahhabis about who can pray in whose mosque were held long before Ahmadis came into existence.

    Conversely, the Wahhabis declare these Muslims of Indo-Pak as kafir. Their Urdu translation of the Quran by Ahmad Raza Khan is banned in Saudi Arabia. Often these Muslims have been deported by SA when they have tried to practise certain rituals at the Holy Prophet’s tomb which they do at shrines in Indo-Pak.

    If all these fatwas of kufr were taken into account, hardly any Muslims would be able to perform the hajj. Saudi rulers have always adopted the approach (as one of their kings put it in about 1950 specifically in connection with Ahmadis) that anyone who regards the hajj as their religious obligation in Islam cannot be prevented from performing the hajj.

    As we are allowed to go to perform hajj on the above basis, which is a de facto recognition of us as Muslims, we don’t need to question individual imams. Aren’t there other Muslims performing the hajj who are bitter religious or political opponents of Wahhabis, but are there for a religious obligation?

    Also, Hazrat Mirza sahib’s advice above is not a rigid rule, since Hazrat Maulana Nur-ud-Din suggested other ways of determining if prayer behind a certain imam is allowed to Ahmadis.

    When Islamic Knight claimed that “the entire muslim ummah calls ahmadis as kafirs”, I pointed out this was not the case and certain Muslim regarded and regard us as Muslims.

    He replied: “I have no idea why muslim x wouldnt call you people Kafir. Let me speak to him for a day and give him some crucial data and lets see if his opinion changes.”

    Islamic Knight is another one of our critics suffering from an inflated sense of their own grandeur. He claims that he can change the opinion of any Muslim who believes that Ahmadis are not kafir! Yes, so many of opponents send e-mails, send comments to this blog, claiming “I am the one”, “I am the one” who has got the unbeatable arguments which no one in a hundred years has come across.

    I think some anti-Ahmadiyya ulama should be asked to determine if Islamic Knight is Muslim or kafir, and if he is in their view an even worse kafir than we are!

    Let him try going for the hajj and claiming there that he is a conscientious objector to any form of military service for Muslims, and he is there to promote his ideas!

  3. Muslim Knight states “I have no idea why muslim x wouldnt call you people Kafir. Let me speak to him for a day and give him some crucial data and lets see if his opinion changes.”
    I think that foremost he should speak to all on this forum so that everyone is enlightened forever with his crucial data.

  4. June 24th, 2010 at 6:50 pm
    From Zahid Aziz:

    Islamic Knight has responded on the forum and sent me several e-mails containing the same responses. For our readers’ convenience I give here the link to that forum.

    I don’t respond in other forums, and here I will make just one comment about his most serious allegation.

    Regarding a letter by Hazrat Mirza sahib to Dr Abdul Hakim Khan, in which it is stated “…every person to whom my call is conveyed and who does not accept me is not a Muslim…”, Islamic Knight or Rationalist writes:

    “3.a. Again, Muhammad Ali totally denied that MGAQ ever wrote this letter, just like MGAQ. ”

    In his e-mail to me he says:

    “Muhamad Ali was such a liar that he denied that MGAQ ever wrote thsoe statements….”

    In another e-mail to me, he writes that HMGA having written this letter:

    “denied ever making this statement” and he quotes him from Haqiqatul Wahy(1907) p. 178 allegedly to this effect. He adds: “MGA must have forgot what he wrote in that letter to Dr. Hakeem Khan, a year after writing the letter he totally denied it.”

    Then he says that Mirza Mahmud Ahmad discovered the letter and mentioned it in his 1911 article.

    I wish to clarify his allegation before answering it.

    Is he saying that Maulana Muhammad Ali, in the book whose link he gives (Heresy in Islam), denied that Hazrat Mirza sahib “ever wrote those words”?

    Is he saying that Hazrat Mirza sahib, in Haqiqat-ul-Wahy, never mentioned that he wrote the words of that letter?

    He also writes, regarding “some hadith by Muhammad (saw) that states that if a muslim calls another true muslim a Kafir, then he himself becomes a KAFIR”, that:

    “2.b. I also asked Zahid for a reference to this alleged hadith of Muhammad (saw) I even told Zahid that this tradition better be in Bukhari or muslim, if this tradition was in Kanzul-ummul he would never hear the last of it from me.”

    Why is he asking me for a reference? He claims to have been studying Ahmadiyyat for ten years, to know the inns and outs of it. My reply is: You very well know the reference, you know I am not referring to Kanzul-ummal, you have read our books containing the reference.

    Finally, I thank him for clearing up what he meant by being a “conscientious objector”. He says he refuses to fight for the United States but will be “the first to grab a sword” to fight for Muslims, many of whom are at present claiming to be fighting a jihad against the United States. This topic is not relevant to our discussion, but I feel that if he is sincere in his views he should make his stand absolutely clear to the people of the US, namely, that at the first opportunity available he will fight a jihad by arms for Muslims against the US. If he doesn’t make it clear, then he is a hypocrite and a conspirator.

  5. June 25th, 2010 at 5:56 pm
    From Zahid Aziz:

    Islamic Knight has provided the following clarification of his allegation that I asked for.

    … I never wrote that MGAQ claimed to have never written the letter. MGAQ claimed to have never made the statement that all those who hadnt accepted him were kafir, irregardless if they heard his name or not. He even challenged Dr Abdul Hakim Khan to publish an article or poster where this is written.

    4.a. Obviously, MGAQ could have never dreamed that Mahmud Ahmad would have found the letter and began to give it publicity in 1911. This letter was probably the main reason that Mahmud Ahmad started calling musllims as Kafirs.

    4.b. ALI said the same thing as MGAQ, that is, he totally denied ever writing such and such a statement, when the reality was that he had in fact done so.

    He still hasn’t made clear whether he is alleging that Hazrat Mirza sahib concealed the fact that he had written the words in a letter “…every person to whom my call is conveyed and who does not accept me is not a Muslim…”.

    Is he also alleging that Maulana Muhammad Ali never mentioned and commented upon these words?

    I am asking for clarification because of past dealings with Islamic Knight and Bashir.

    They first make an allegation, then when it is totally refuted they alter the allegation that was being discussed. In this case, if (and it is only an if) it were shown that both Hazrat Mirza sahib and Maulana Muhammad Ali had clearly quoted the above words and had given an explanation of what they mean, then Islamic Knight, Rationalist and Bashir will immediately start criticising that explanation. They will divert away from the fact that their allegation (about no mention of these words) has been proved false.

    It is a game to them, not pursuit of truth. They engineer it so that if their allegation is right, of course they are proved right; and if their allegation is totally false, they are still right by raising a different allegation.

    Islamic Knight has also clarified his position on fighting a jihad by arms against the US. He writes:

    4. I advise muslims to use meccan philosophy during the next 50 years. We need to rebuild, but not forget what these white people have done to us. Muslims should focus on education and sports, we need to re-build everything before fight back. Allah didnt allow muslims to fight back in mecca, probably because muslims would have lost the war. Allah waited muslims were strong enough for battle. Now, im not saying lets attack america…we need to educate our children..we need to teach them the history of the white man and christianinty.

    Someone more than a hundred years ago told Muslims to use the Meccan philosophy. He also said, if Allah meant Muslims to fight, He would have created the Madina period conditions. He also countered the tenets of Christianity, but he suggested not hating the “white man” but guiding him towards Islam.

    I don’t think Islamic Knight reads properly because he writes about me:

    You [ZA] wrote:

    “Before answering this, I note that his comments indicate that he has also left the religion of Islam (after leaving the Qadiani Jamaat; he says he is USA born in a Pakistani Qadiani family). He writes: ” I am a consientious objector.” If so, then he himself is a kafir and non-Muslim according to the very same Ulama who call us kafir!”

    Without even asking me what religion i was, u assumed that i was a Kafir. That is just sad.

    I never suggested that he was a kafir. What I clearly wrote and meant is that if he is a cons. obj. then according to the Ulama (who call us kafir) he will be a kafir. They will call him kafir, as they call us kafir. Why? Because “cons. obj.” means a person who objects on moral grounds to taking part in a war, any war. It doesn’t mean someone who refuses to fight for one side but will “grab a sword” to fight for another side! So what will the Ulama declare a person who says he finds it morally repugnant to fight in any war, past, present or future?

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