New area: Miracles, Myths, Mistakes and Matters — See Title Page and List of Contents
— latest, 11th November 2015: Flame, Fire, Shooting Star – or Shooting Down of the Nonsense with Quran?
Refuting the gross distortion and misrepresentation of the Quran, the Prophet Muhammad and Islam, made by the critics of Islam
Submitted by Rashid Jahangiri.
For purposes of law and administration Ahmadis are non-Muslim minority in Pakistan. Today Prime Minister of Pakistan Nawaz Sharif addressed a Hindus gathering on occasion of their religious festival of Diwali. His gesture was highly appreciated in news media. Commentators praised and used words such as this is what founder of Pakistan wanted, and today his speech reminds us of vision of Quaid-i-Azam Mohammad Ali Jinnah. At the same time comparison between NS and Narendra Modi were drawn. Comparisons were drawn to highlight how tolerant and caring for minorities Pakistani PM is versus Indian PM. Fine. I agree so far. But question is whether PM NS is himself a fair person and Pakistani society is fair society that gives PM confidence to speak fairly in his speech? PM NS while presenting himself as PM of ALL of Pakistanis mentioned names of all minorities in Pakistan i.e. Hindus, Sikhs, Christians, and Parsis EXCEPT Ahmadis. I don’t think PM was counting Ahmadis among Muslims, rather reality is that he could NOT even verbally say that he considers himself PM of Pakistani Ahmadis too. What a height of intolerance in Pakistan.
Please watch following video clip at 00:28:55
During the period of Headship of Hazrat Maulana Nur-ud-Din, when Mirza Mahmud Ahmad returned from performing the Hajj to Makkah, some welcome meetings were held for him in Qadian. One such meeting, attended by the Hazrat Maulana, was held on 14th January 1913, and was organized by the pupils of the Ahmadiyya religious school. At the request of the gathering Mirza Mahmud Ahmad made a speech about his journey. This event, along with the speech, is reported in Badr, 30 January 1913, pages 17-18.
In this speech he mentioned various questions and objections that he encountered from people during the journey and his answers to them. He relates one of these as follows:
"Then a man raised the objection that the Holy Prophet has said that in every century there will be a group in his Ummah who will receive salvation, but you (i.e., Ahmadis) say that after the Companions till today all Muslims have been kafir as they believed that Jesus is alive. I replied to him that we do not call non-Ahmadis as kafir because of their believing in Jesus to be alive. We call them kafir because they call the followers of Mirza sahib, who are Muslims, as kafir. Therefore, under the Holy Prophet's order, we call them kafir because they call Muslims as kafir." (p. 18, column 2)
This speech was, of course, made almost two years after his well-known article of April 1911, in which he declared all other Muslims to be kafir, all those who "decline to accept his claims", "even if they called him a righteous person with their tongues".
See the image of this part of the speech below.
The image of the complete report in Badr can be read in pdf format at this link. The report begins in the 3rd column of the first page (p. 17). I have marked appropriate points by red lines.
Earlier this month I received an e-mail sent by Mr Akber A. Choudhry to a list of people including me. It pointed us to his website (I say "his website" because the link he sent carries his personal copyright notice at the bottom) where a Qadiani Jamaat publication has been uploaded containing the proceedings of a debate between Qadiani Jamaat and Lahore Ahmadiyya representatives at Shimla (formerly spelt as Simla).
In this debate each party put forward its arguments before an impartial, non-Ahmadi Muslim arbitrator as to its interpretation of the claims of Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad. The arbitrator's verdict, printed in this book, is presented to show that he ruled that the Qadiani explanation of his claim, that he claimed to be a prophet, was correct.
I sent a preliminary reply to Mr Akber A. Choudhry's e-mail, but he gave no response. I have now compiled an article on the subject at this link.
I wonder if he will care to respond (I am sending him a link to this blog post).
His webpage says: "These proceedings represents the closest we will get to the original positions and it includes many very interesting references and interpretations."
This statement shows the gross ignorance which we have come to expect from anti-Ahmadiyya websites. The "references and interpretations" in these proceedings can be found extensively in Qadiani and LAM literature, including on the Qadiani and LAM websites, and were a matter of common discussion for decades.
Submitted by Rashid Jahangiri.
In life of HMGA, news of Marxist movement in Russia was reaching India. In that time HMGA had ilham (divine revelation) that Islam will spread in Russia, and its followers will be like grains of sand. On the surface it did not make sense, as Marxists were preaching against following of religion of any kind. Maulana Noor-ud-Din sahib asked HMGA, “You’re saying Islam will spread in Russia and events are progressing against it”. HMGA replied, “Don’t worry. Slate is being cleaned. Color [of Islam] will hold fast”. Anyways, history is witness Marxist movement culminated into a Bolshevik revolution in 1917, and then world saw the brutal communist rule for next 70 years. In this era all religions including Islam was suppressed with iron fist. New mosques were not allowed to be constructed. Except the few that could be counted on finger tips, mosques were closed. Muslim prayers and rituals were closely monitored. Today almost 100 years later, Russia’s powerful president Putin inaugurates the largest mosque in Europe. Allah-O-Akbar.
LIVE: Putin opens Moscow’s biggest mosque
On this inauguration congratulations to all Muslims of the world and especially to those who respect HMGA.
Eid Mubarak to all readers.
Submitted by Rashid Jahangiri
I read an interesting new statement by Pakistan’s Interior Minister Nisar Ali Khan:
“State will take action against those calling others infidels: Nisar”
Dawn online/ September 7, 2015:
ISLAMABAD: Federal Interior Minister Chaudhry Nisar Ali Khan on Monday said the state will now take action against those calling others kafir (non-Muslim), adding that the government had already tackled hate speech and glorification of terrorists in the first phase.
My question: Does interior minister have the courage to take action against Mehmudis (those qadianis who hold belief that QK2 Mirza Mehmud Ahmad was “Musleh Mahud”) and Pakistani Muslim opponents of Lahore Ahmadiyya Movment?
At the last Eid, the Eid-ul-Adha in October 2014, I said in my Eid Khutba that it was a tragedy that:
"on 24th and 25th September Muslims around the world tried to sight the new moon by human eye to determine the start of the present month of the Islamic calendar"
"On 21st September 2014 a US spacecraft reached the planet Mars and was placed into orbit around it. On 24th September a spacecraft built and launched by India reached Mars and was placed into orbit around it."
It has happened again and the tragedy is even worse this time.
While Muslims are wondering whether the new moon for Eid-ul-Fitr will be sighted on 16th July or 17th July 2015, NASA's New Horizons probe passed close to Pluto on 14th July, sending back photos of this minor planet. Pluto is at present about 3 billion miles from earth, which is about 12000 (twelve thousand) times the distance of the moon from the earth.
The tragedy is worse this time than at the last Eid because Pluto is much further away than Mars.
Submitted by Rashid Jahangiri.
In a recent article on ‘BBC online Urdu’ website on Malerkotla, a city in Indian Punjab state. The article tells this city is an exceptional case of religious tolerance, communal harmony and coexistence. Two daughters of Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad sahib were married to father and son in the Nawab family of city.
According to marhoom Abdul Mannan Omar sahib, Khwaja Kamal-ud-Din sahib on return from England, after split in Ahmadiyya Movement of HMGA, contacted one of the brother in-law of QK2 Mirza Mehmud Ahmad. I think his name was Nawab Muhammad Ali and was the younger of two son in-laws of HMGA. Khwaja sahib wanted to end the split and get both jamaats back together. Nawab said to Khwaja sahib, “The only issue is the money. The requirement of ba’it of Mirza Mehmud is NOT an issue. Iqida (tenet that HMGA was a prophet) NOT an issue. If you (LAM) people let him [QK2 Mirza Mehmud Ahmad] control all jamaat chanda, jamaat can be together again in a day”.
Later statements of QK2 in Munir-Kiyani commission, in which he retracted his cardinal beliefs that differentiates Mehmudis from LAM and rest of Muslim Ummah, give credence to goal of QK2. For him only important thing was money, and beliefs and requirement of his ba’it was only a means to force people, who later joined Lahore Ahmadiyya Movement, out. He wanted to consolidate his control on Jamaat income. No doubt he definitely succeeded, but has damaged HMGA mission and 100 years are lost.
Imagine if in last 100 years HMGA message had reached to Muslim world, we would not be seeing dictators in Muslim world, and their reaction in form of Jihadists and ISIS. Muslim world would be progressive, peaceful and tolerant. And message of Islam would have gained deep and strong roots in Europe and North America. We would not be seeing Islamophobia and Islam bashers on television screens and internet in USA and Europe.
Submitted by Rashid Jahangiri.
Inaccuracies in ‘The Ahmadis and the Politics of Religious Exclusion in Pakistan’ by Ali Usmani Qasmi
Note to readers: As I read through this book, I will point out inaccuracies in it, from Lahore Ahmadiyya Movement perspective. I will myself provide correct information. Others are also welcome to provide correct information from LAM stand point. This thread is NOT to discuss whether LAM interpretation is correct or not. It is only to provide LAM perspective. Upon completion, I will make efforts to contact author Ali Usmani Qasmi, and invite him to justify his statements that LAM considers inaccurate. As I wrote elsewhere I feel author lacked knowledge about Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad sahib, and it is not fair for him to base his knowledge on writing of someone else who himself lacks knowledge about HMGA. Here I mean Yohanan Friedman’s ‘The Prophecy Continues: Aspects of Ahmadi Religious Thought and its Medieval Background’ (New Delhi: Oxford University Press, 2003). In my opinion approach by Ali Usmani Qasmi is NOT justified.
In Notes, Chapter II, page 231, author writes:
2. For an overview of the theological and other religious views of Mirza Ghulam Ahmad, I have relied heavily on Yohanan Friedman’s ‘The Prophecy Continues: Aspects of Ahmadi Religious Thought and its Medieval Background’ (New Delhi: Oxford University Press, 2003).
Page 37: Mirza Ghulam Ahmad held the belief that the second coming of the Christ nullified the notion of Muhammad’s finality of prophethood as understood by the ulema opposed to him. Such a belief was also in contradiction to Ghulam Ahmad’s theory of prophethood, where by Prophet Muhammad was to be considered the last of the law-bearing prophets and owner of the seal of prophethood.
Page 37: The reason Mirza Ghulam Ahmad’s writings led to widespread resentment against him was his additional claim of prophethood, not just that of messianic authority.
Page 37: Mirza Ghulam Ahmad’s “heterodoxy” lay in arguing not only for continuation of prophecies but prophethood as well. This meant reinterpreting the term khatam-i-nabuwwat – largely understood as “finality of prophethood” – as “seal of prophethood”.
Page 37: In addition, according to him, the phrase “seal of prophethood” indicates that no prophet can be true without being confirmed by the seal of Prophet Muhammad.
Page 37: But it was almost a decade before Mirza Ghulam Ahmad gave definite shape to his ideas about prophethood and his own prophetic status. Even after he had made various statements in this regard, his views remained ambiguous and purposefully nuanced to afford any possible interpretation, as evidenced by divergence of his followers after his death.
Page 37: It was only in light of the growing strength of his followers and the spiritual experience he claimed to have undergone that he made claims to prophethood. He claimed to be a reflective (zilli) and manifestational (buruzi) prophet who was approved by the seal of Muhammad on account of his spiritual excellence and services for Islam.
Page 38: A succinct summation of Mirza Ghulam Ahmad’s view on Muhammad’s prophethood, the term khatam-i-nabuwwat and his own prophethood is expressed in the following text, translated by Yohanan Friedman:
No law-bearing prophet can [ever] come [again]. A non-legislative prophet can come only if he is a member of the [Muslim] community. Accordingly, I am both a member of the [Muslim] community and a prophet. And my prophethood – this is to say the divine discourse [with me] – is a shadow of the prophethood of Muhammad. […] My prophethood is nothing except that. It is the muhammadi prophethood which became manifested in me.
This statement was made towards the end of his life. For those statements dating back to an earlier period of his life when he had denied being a prophet, he and his followers argued that he was only denying prophethood in the sense of being a law-bearing prophet or conveyer of new shari’at.
Instead of individually correcting each inaccuracy, I would ask author to please read through different links provided in following link:
Page 38: After Mirza Ghulam Ahmad’s death, Hakim Nur-ud-Din (d. 1914) – his close aide and friend for many decades – was appointed as successor. He titled himself as a Caliph.
Hakim Nur-ud-Din is on record of saying, “I never wrote with my hand word Caliph for myself”.
Page 38: The nascent community of followers was split into two different groups even during Nur-ud-Din’s lifetime. One group was led by Maulana Muhammad Ali (1974—1951), […]. He was of the opinion that the Ahmadi missionary groups within India or abroad, must only emphasize the unanimous tenets of Islam. The writings of Mirza Ghulam Ahmad or the Ahmadi-specific aspects of religious doctrine should not be the main concern in such endeavors. Ghulam Ahmad son Mirza Bashir-ud-Din Mehmud (1889—1965), who lead the other group, insisted that excluding Ghulam Ahmad from missionary efforts would be disastrous to the nascent Ahmadi community, as it would efface all the distinctive features of Ahmadis and non-Ahmadis. He said that Ahmadi preachers were hesitant to even mention the name of Ghulam Ahmad lest it would incite hatred. Nur-ud-Din’s death brought these differences into the open. Muhammad Ali insisted that the election of a new caliph should be postponed until certain modalities could be sorted out. This was opposed by Mirza Bashir-ud-Din Mehmud, who had ample support among the members of the community to get himself elected as the caliph.
Had Ali Usmani Qasmi read ‘Split in Ahmadiyya Movment’ by Maulana Muhammad Ali, his understanding of reasons would be different that what he wrote. All he needed to following link:
Page 39: According to Friedmann, there must have been reasons of personal ambition for the split as well, and not just disagreement on organizational issues. Muhammad Ali had MA in English and had been associated with the Ahmadiyya since 1892. He could not possibly recognize the leadership of a person who was 15 years his junior and did not even have a proper secondary education.
Although Ali Usmani Qasmi quotes Friedmann, had he read articles in following link under Discussion of the Qadiani Jama’at Beliefs, he would not be writing such demeaning comment:
Late Abdul Mannan Omar sahib (son of Hakim Nur-ud-Din) testified on behalf of Lahore Ahmadiyya Movement, in 1974 Trial of Ahmadis in Pakistan National Assembly. According him, this he told me personally, Pakistan’s Attorney General Yahya Bakhtiar in his effort to prove that both Qadiani-group and Lahori-group have same belief and split between them was not based on doctrinal differences and was merely a political. He wanted to prove that there were two contenders for post of head of Ahmadiyya Movement one was Mirza Bashir-ud-Din Mahmud and other was Maulana Muhammad Ali. So, AG Yahya Bakhtiar posed a question: How many candidates were there for position of head of Ahmadiyya Jama’at? To this late Abdul Mannan Omar sahib replied: There was only one candidate and it was Mirza Bashir-ud-Din Mehmud.
I reproduce below verbatim a series of e-mail exchanges between an enquirer, who contacted our website e-mail address, and myself which took place from 19th March to 27th March. In place of his name I am only showing his initials.
Dear Dr. Zahid Aziz
Please tell me about the official Status of Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad, in your belief system.
Thank you for writing to us. Please see the following link for the answer to your question:
The link does not specify the STATUS. I already know that your Jamaat do not believe that he was a Prophet. What do you call him? "Promised Messiah"?
Kindly go to the links within that link. For example:
His status, as believed by us, is clearly stated on these two very short pages.
I should also have added that these two short pages contain further links where the topic about his claims and status is dealt with in detail.
Thank you very much Dr. Zahid Aziz. From the links it is also clear that the title " Promised Messiah" is shared by both branches of Ahmadiyyat. If possible please tell me who is the Promiser ?
"Promised Messiah" means the Messiah whose coming was promised to the Muslims. The promise was made implicitly in the Quran (24:55) and explicitly by the Holy Prophet Muhammad. They are the promisers.
Many thanks. Regards.
Please direct me to the link or place where I can find the relevant Hadees.
I am attaching here the scanned image of a chapter from the book 'The Ahmadiyya Movement', which quotes and explains those hadith reports.
There is no "Promised Messiah" in the Holy Quran.
But you asked: "Please direct me to the link or place where I can find the relevant Hadees." So I answered the question which you asked. I could not answer a question which you did not ask. Maybe you possess that magical power, to answer questions that you haven't been asked!
The question of Promised Messiah in the Quran has been discussed by Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad in a book which is available at the following link:
But where does the Quran mention the coming back of Jesus (Isa), which is believed in by most Muslims?
My original question was very simple and straight forward. I wanted to know the status of …… The links do not answer the question. In my belief system, the writer of these links has no credibility.
The question was not asked by most Muslims. There no coming back of any prophet in the Holy Quran as far as I know.
Your original question was: "Please tell me about the official Status of Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad, in your belief system."
I answered it five days ago as follows:
Kindly go to the links within that link. For example:
His status, as believed by us, is clearly stated on these two very short pages.
So the issue of discussion now is: Do the above links mention what we believe or do they not?
You say: "In my belief system, the writer of these links has no credibility."
I could say the same about you! Exactly what credibility does your belief system have? Presumably your belief system was taught to you directly by Allah, and therefore it is the standard of truth by which everyone else's beliefs should be judged!
At least my belief system has not made me arrogant.
Dear Dr. Zahid Aziz,
The reason I asked the question was that I was not very clear about the difference between the two branches of Ahmadiyyat.
There was no issue involved.
I have not used any offensive word in my message. If you feel that I have offended you, I apologise most sincerely.
If calling me arrogant makes you happy, be my guest.
I have no reason to get involved in any discussion about yours or mine beliefs. There is no Prophet/ Promised Messiah after Prophet Muhammad SAW , in Islam that I know.
That's fine. Thank you, and sorry for any offence caused by me.
It seems that you also agree with us in one important respect where we disagree with most Muslims. They believe that Jesus will return to this world, something we don't accept at all. So at least in this one respect you consider us as right and most Muslims as wrong.
Dear Dr. Zahid Aziz,
There are more than one issues on which I do not agree with Muslims but I do not call them WRONG. I do not have the credentials or evidence to pronounce judgement on any issue. I can easily discussed the Return of Jesus issue with you. Go ahead .
You said: "There is no Prophet/ Promised Messiah after Prophet Muhammad SAW , in Islam that I know."
I conclude from this that you believe that Jesus cannot return.
On the general issue of whether we can call other Muslims (note: I have said "other Muslims" here, not "Muslims") as wrong, if they are bringing Islam into disrepute by their interpretation of, for example, jihad, then unless we call them wrong on those issues the general world will continue to think that their interpretation has some foundation.
Muslims who believe that Islam teaches that a Muslim who leaves Islam must be executed are wrong and are defaming Islam.
Muslims who believe that Islam teaches them to kill anyone who mocks the Prophet Muhammad are again wrong.
Muslims who believe that girls should not be given education are wrong and acting against Islam.
Anyone can be *wrong* on some issue. I can be wrong, you can be wrong, and likewise most Muslims can be wrong.
Please don't hesitate to call me wrong when you consider me to be wrong. It will do me good!
 There is no second coming of any prophet named in the Holy Quran. That is my belief.
 Only a small minority of Muslims harbour the beliefs you have stated above. The majority of Muslims does not advocate killing any one.
 That is also our belief. But a very large number of Muslims believe that Jesus will return to this world, so much so that they claim that it is almost unanimous. This means that anyone who doesn't hold this belief needs to show arguments and evidence from Islamic teachings that this belief is not correct. As Muslims, we can't just differ from a widely prevailing belief of Muslims without giving reasons.
 Really? The law of Pakistan, passed by its elected government, prescribes the death penalty, and only the death penalty, for "insulting the Holy Prophet". And in actual cases where people have been charged with this crime, "insulting the Holy Prophet" is given such a wide definition that almost any statement can be alleged to be an insult.
People in Pakistan, including Muslims, have been actually killed by lynch mobs for this alleged crime. The police and government could not protect them because of the very strong feeling in the public that such people should be killed.
Have you heard of the Mumtaz Qadri case, and how he is hailed as a hero in Pakistan for killing governor Salman Taseer?
It is a very widely held belief among Muslims that any Muslim who leaves the religion of Islam (apostasy) must be executed. The laws of some Muslim countries, including Saudi Arabia, prescribe the death penalty for this.
It will be helpful if we deal with one issue at a time. Also this dialogue is between two individuals. Please do not drag "muslims" into it. There are not present here and cannot be included.
Shall we start with the return of Jesus as the first issue? I can assure you that I have the ability and knowledge to deal with all the issues that you have raised after we have finished with Jesus.
Your original questions to me were:
"Please tell me about the official Status of Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad, in your belief system."
"I already know that your Jamaat do not believe that he was a Prophet. What do you call him?"
So you can "drag" our Jamaat into it, but I can't drag your fellow Muslims into it!
Let us then discuss the return of Jesus. You have already said:
"There is no second coming of any prophet named in the Holy Quran. That is my belief."
So what is your opinion about the reports in Hadith that Jesus will return?
You say: "I can assure you that I have the ability and knowledge to deal with all the issues that you have raised after we have finished with Jesus."
Well, I am not that confident of my own ability and knowledge vis-a-vis yours, since I don't know who you are, whether you are a novice or the greatest Islamic scholar on earth.
Can you provide some evidence of your ability and knowledge? The evidence of my limited ability and knowledge (on those other issues) is here: www.ahmadiyya.org/islam/islam-pt.htm
Dear Dr.Zahid Aziz,
I know what was my original question and your response and I can say with 100% honesty that my objective was to know the views of your Jamaat. I addressed you by name. I did not address your Jamaat at all. Other Muslims are not involved in this dialogue . Why mention them?
Read my previous message again. I stated clearly that I will deal with these issues one at a time, lumping them leads to confusion and sadly you have already created it. I will ignore your comments about my knowledge etc. because they have no value and only expose petty mindedness. I have no time to waste on any links.
Here is my response to "so what is your opinion [about the reports in Hadith]…………":
The beliefs of other Muslims are certainly relevant because the very reason for your enquiry is that we differ from other Muslims in accepting Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad. The underlying theme from you towards me is: Why are your beliefs different from other Muslims?
I asked about "the reports in Hadith that Jesus will return". But you respond: Which Hadith?
Are you unaware of the existence of such reports in Hadith books (e.g. Sahih Bukhari and Sahih Muslim)? If you have never heard of, or read about, or know of such hadith, then what does that say about your level of knowledge?
Dear Dr. Zahid Aziz,
Had great respect for you but the last three messages have completely destroyed it. In that kind of environment we cannot achieve anything. I will not bother you again.
No hard feelings. May Allah bless you with peace.
To readers of this blog:
People have the right to judge if my replies above should lead to respect for me being "completely destroyed".
Submitted by Abid Aziz.
The Islamic council of Gambia declares Ahmadies as Non-Muslim. The beliefs which they mention as Ahmadiyya beliefs are not our beliefs. Some of those beliefs are of qadiani jammat and the rest of them are baseless. You can read the news at this link.