Translation of Qadiani Jamaat Indonesia statement
Our friend from Indonesia, Erwan Hamdani, has sent us a clearer English translation of the 12-point statement by the Qadiani Jama`at in Indonesia. It is as follows:
1. We, Jemaat Ahmadiyya members, since the beginning, have believed and said kalimah shahadat as taught by His Majesty Muhammad Rasulullah the Prophet (PBUH), i.e. Ashhadu anlaa-ilaaha illallahu wa ashhadu anna Muhammadar Rasullulah, meaning: I witness that there is no God besides Allah and I witness that surely Muhammad is Rasulullah.
2. Since the beginning, we, Jemaat Ahmadiyya members, have believed that Muhammad Rasulullah is Khatamun Nabiyyin (end of prophet).
3. Among our beliefs, Hadhrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad was a teacher, murshid, bearer of good news and warnings, and bearer of mubashshirat, founder and leader of jamaat Ahmadiyat, whose mission was to strengthen dawah and propagation of Islam which was brought by Muhammad (PBUH) the Prophet.
4. To clarify that the word Rasulullah in the 10 points of bai’at that have to read by candidates of jamaat Ahmadiyya is Muhammad (PBUH) the Prophet, we put the word Muhammad in front of the word Rasulullah.
5. We, Ahmadiyya members, believe that there is no wahyu shariat after Al-Quranul Karim brought to Muhammad the Prophet. Al Quran and sunnah of Muhammad (PBUH) the Prophet is the source of Islamic teaching that we follow.
6. Book of Tadzkirah is not Ahmadiyya’s holy book, but it is a record of spiritual experiences of Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad that were collected into a book that is called Tadzkirah by his followers in 1935, that was 27 after his demise.
7. We, Jemaat Ahmadiyya members, have never and will never consider other Muslims outside Ahmadiyya kafir, either by words nor by acts.
8. We, Jemaat Ahmadiyya members, have never and will never call the mosques that we built with a name called Ahmadiyya’s mosque.
9. We declare that every mosque that was built and administered by Jemaat Ahmadiyya is always open for all Muslims from all groups.
10. We, Jemaat Ahmadiyya members, as muslims register (our) marriages at the Religious Affairs Offices and register (our) divorces and other matters related to it to Religious Court Offices in accordance to the law.
11. We, Jamaat Ahmadiyya members, will keep increasing the silaturaim and cooperate with all muslim groups and the public in public social khidmad for Islamic, people and national progress.
12. With this explanation, we, the executive of Jemaat Ahmadiyah Indonesia, expect that Jemaat Ahmadiyya members specifically, and Muslim ummah in general, can understand this matters with ukhuwah Islamiyah and national unity spirit.
Erwan has added the following comments on this:
HMGA being Mahdi or Messiah is not an essential issue here. The Goverment is only concerned about prophethood after the Holy Prophet Muhammad as Qadiani Jama`at believes, because this wrong believe can cause riots.
All of Qadiani publishing in Indonesia will be monitor by the government. This 12-point statement is regarded by Indonesian Goverment as a “massive repentance” by the Qadiani Jama`at of Indonesia.
From Tahir Ijaz:
Erwan, this should not be a Lahori vs Qadiani issue. the sad commentary here is your country is turning into a basketcase nation with government interference in religious liberties.
From Erwan:
This is not about what you called religious liberties, it is about the unity of Muslims especially in Indonesia. Qadiyanis believe that all other Muslims are kafir and outside pale of Islam, and this belief makes the Qadiyani Jamaat an exclusive organization. All of this disunity is based on their belief that there is a prophet after Holy Prophet. If you ask the Indonesian goverment about religious liberties, please remember that it is also not religious liberty by the Qadiani Jamaat that they regard other Muslims as a kafir and outside pale of Islam.
From Abdul Momin:
I think to clarify this situation whether the Qadiani jamaat in Indonesia believes HMGA to be a prophet or not, a copy of the press release from London by the Qadiani jamaat should be sent to the Indonesian government, who then should in turn forward it to the concerned Qadiani jamaat leaders for their comments. I think this would make the situation very clear.
From Tahir Ijaz:
Erwan, the issue is the government threatening religious liberty of its own citizens due to influence of narrow minded Mullah -ism. Please recognize the disease.
Today it may be us, tomorrow they may come after you for not believing the literal descent of Hazrat Isa (fatwas on this already exist) and for your belief the non-Ahmadis are ‘fasiq’ for rejecting a mujaddid.
From Zahid Aziz:
The Lahore Ahmadiyya Movement has always held very strongly that anyone who recites the kalima must be regarded as a Muslim by any Muslim governments or organisations. On this basis, it has specifically held that the Qadiani Jamaat is Muslim and cannot be declared as non-Muslim on the grounds of believing in Hazrat Mirza sahib as prophet. Moreover, it has also been our view that if the Qadiani Jamaat is declared non-Muslim on these grounds then the Sunni Muslims don’t remain Muslims either because of their belief in a prophet (Jesus) coming after the Holy Prophet. In fact, a pandora’s box will be opened of each Muslim sect complaining about some other as being non-Muslim.
We are not discussing the Qadiani Jamaat statement from the point of view that they should deny their belief in the prophethood of Hazrat Mirza sahib in order to remain Muslims in someone’s eyes. They should be regarded as Muslims in any case on the basis of the first point in their statement. What we are discussing is whether the beliefs they presented in this statement are a full and accurate reflection of their beliefs on the controversial points.
From Ibnay Adam:
The fact is that if Jamat Ahmadiyah Indoneshia stated that Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad al-Qadiani (as) is a teacher – he is correct – nowhere in the article does he say that ‘he is not a prophet of any sort’.
One of the Indonashain molvi (by the name of Ma’ruf) stated:
And this is true. the Prophet (saw) was also a teacher, as was ‘Isa (as). And they were all Prophets!!
Many a time, the Prophet (saw) referred to himself as a teacher. In a famous and well-known hadith the Prophet saw stated:
“Innama bu’ith-tu mu’alliman” – ‘I have not been sent, except as a teacher’
Where did the Prophet mention that he was a Prophet in this hadith?? nowhere – but we KNOW that he was a Prophet, and that fact does not have to be SHOUTED out LOUD at every place and in every sentence!!
Thus, if what Jamat Ahmadiyya Indoneshia has said something to the effect of ‘he was a teacher’ this is not incorrect – and neither is it a complete understanding of his status.
Did u forget the waqayah of Sulah Hudaibyah in which Holy Prophet(SAW) status as a prophet was not mentioned because kufar did not believed in the prophethood of Holy Prophet(SAW) and same is the case here!!!!!!!!!!
And please donot call us Qadyanis because we donot call us Qadyanis!!!If u like to be called us Lahori Ahmadi Muslim its your choice we only like to be called as Ahmadi Muslims!!!!!
And about u said that we did not consider other muslisms as muslims is totally False!We consider every one as Muslims whoever resite Kalima!!!!!!!!Just as Jamat Ahmadiyah Indoneshia has shown!!!!!!!!!!!
From Zahid Aziz:
My last comment (although made a long time ago) immediately above Ibnay Adam’s statement was:
“What we are discussing is whether the beliefs they presented in this statement are a full and accurate reflection of their beliefs on the controversial points.”
Please note “full and accurate”. Is it a full and accurate statement of a follower of Hazrat Mirza sahib to say that he believes him to be a teacher? Is it a full and accurate statement by a Muslim to say that he believes the Holy Prophet Muhammad to be a teacher?
You have also mentioned Jesus as a teacher. A Christian and a Muslim could both say that they believe Jesus to be a teacher. But the basic belief of one is that he was son of God, and the basic belief of the other is that he was not son of God but a prophet.
When you are accused of believing that Hazrat Mirza sahib was a prophet, and in reply you say “we believe him to be a teacher”, what does your reply mean in that context?
We do shout loud at every place that the Holy Prophet was prophet, simply because we call him Messenger of Allah, Holy Prophet, rasul-ullah, even without adding his name Muhammad. Whenever any Ahmadi of any kind says “Messenger of Allah, Holy Prophet, rasul-ullah”, he, like every other Muslim, means only Muhammad, saw.
You know very well that if a Lahori said “I believe Hazrat Mirza sahib to be my teacher”, you would accuse him of cowardice and of trying to hide that he believes him to be a mujaddid.
At Sulah Hudaibiyya the discussion and the treaty were not about the claim and status of the Holy Prophet. It was the unbelievers who refused to sign a document in which he was called Messenger of Allah. Everyone knew that that was his claim and that was what Muslims believed. The unbelievers were not asking Muslims to write down what the claim of Muhammad (saw) was. In your case, you said you were writing down what your founder’s claim was.
From Ibnay Adam:
So atleast u donot talked and insisted about calling us Qadianis.It means u admit the point.Well I respect that.Thank u brother.
As far as your above statement the point is that they just did not want to know about what we consider Hazrat Messih Maud(AS) they wanted to know all,some 12 points of which Indoneshia Jammat have given them answer the most important was whether we consider Huzoor(SAW) as Khatum Nabeyeen and they had said yes we belive Huzoor(SAW) as Khatum Nabeyeen.And as far as your point that they have not written in that,that Hazrat Messih Maud(AS) was a Prophet then probably u should look again the 3 point in which it is written that we consider him as “bearer of good news and warnings, and bearer of mubashshirat” Now if u would had known the defination of a Messenger or a Prophet u would not have faced this problem.Quran has given the defination in 6:49 ““And We send not the Messengers
but as bearers of glad tidings and as
warners. So those who believe and
reform themselves, on them shall
come no fear nor shall they grieve.”
Now I think that should make the point clear That we have given the defination of Messenger.After which there is no need to write the word Messenger just like when Quran is full with the topic of Toheed but u donot find the word Toheed in Quran.
And as far as we are conserned Jammat Indonesia have clearifed more then once there position on this even infront of parlimentarians and ulema and media and they know that we belive Hazrat Messih Maud(AS) as a Messenger because perhaps they know the defination of a Messanger which u will also know after reading this.
Allah Hafiz brother.
From Rashid:
@Ibnay Adam,
““bearer of good news and warnings, and bearer of mubashshirat””
I am shocked to realize that you Qadianis think LAM members are stupid like brainwashed Qadianis!
Do you honestly believe that LAM members think that your above quote is only meant for Messengers of Allah SWT, and above quote can not be applied on HMGA, a Mujaddid?
Have you heard the famous Ilham of HMGA, in which he was called ‘Nazeer’ (Warner to the world)?