The “Why”
Submitted by Ikram. Discussion of old topic from a different point of view.
Recently I had been exchanging emails with a friend from Rabwah Jamaat where the latter by using various links from aaiil magazines is emphasizing this question: “It appears that the top leadership of Jama’at Lahore (including Maulana Muhammad Ali sb and Khawaja Kamal-ud-Din sb) were clearly of the view up until December 1913 that HMGA was a prophet (Nabi) appointed by God…The belief subsequently changed. Why?”
In summary such line of questions have been answered at: http://www.ahmadiyya.org/qadis/reply.htm
Irrespective of the garb of discussion the underlying obsequiousness of the question is hidden in “Why?”
My general understanding is that Rabwah (Qadiani) Jamaat attributes the split of Ahmadiyya Jamaat into Qadiani and Lahori (aaiil) factions based on selfish desire of Muhammad Ali who could not find himself a leadership role after death of Nooruddin, the successor of Mirza Ghulam Ahmad. Hence he separated to form Lahori faction and became its head.
It is the “Why” which ultimately is at the core of the current topic of discussion. It is this “Why” which maliciously implies the perks and privileges that others “won” and pity on Muhammad Ali, who lost. Now think for a moment, the Rabwah Jamaat members have to self reflect that there are certain persons in their Jamaat who have a generational claim on perks and privileges that none can enjoy except the famous Khandan. I am surprised how willingly their Jamaat historically relents whereas the real deal Khalifa Umar (king of Muslim Empire) had to answer for a yard of extra cloth on his tall body when challenged by a woman of newly converted Arabia, a millennium and a half ago. This religious khandan business is unique in Islamic history whose only claim to fame and right to the throne is “pidram sultan bood” (i.e. my dad was a Sultan). But the irony is that “Sultan” never claimed a “Sultanate” or “Sultanhood” for himself:
http://www.ahmadiyya.org/noclaim/state1.htm
Interestingly, I came across the following, which is complete opposite of what my Rabwah friend claims – actually Mirza Mahmud [the subsequent first head of Qadiani faction] who for sure believed in absolute finality of Muhammad PBUH in 1910 when he wrote:
“In this verse [33:40] God has said that the Holy Prophet Muhammad is the Khatam-un-nabiyyin, and none shall come after him who may be raised to the status of prophethood, and who may abrogate his teachings and establish a new law. Nay, however many saints (auliya) there are, and righteous and pious persons, they will get all that they get through service to him. Thus God has said that the Holy Prophet’s prophethood was meant not only for his times, but that in future too no prophet would come… [Tashhiz-ul-Azhan, April 1910, vol. v, no. 4 – ]
Now the very question from my Rabwah friend becomes a question to him:
“It appears that the top leadership of Jama’at Qadian (including Mirza Mahmud sb) were clearly of the view up until April 1910 that HMGA was NOT a prophet (Nabi) appointed by God…The belief subsequently changed. Why?”
Again it is this “Why” which has the answer to the entire Qadian-Lahore rift. To find the answer, just follow the power grab and money trail right from its inception. It will lead one into the deep niches of minds that acquired it all for themselves at no matter what the cost, even declaring the hundreds of millions Muslims Kafir, and with one stroke of selfishness tried to undo almost fourteen hundred years of work of Muhammad PBUH.
From Rashid:
When internet was a new phenomenon, and Qadianis and Lahoris came in contact on discussion forums. The zealous Qadiani under their attacks of ‘Delusions of Grandeur’ went on mission to do tabligh (preaching) to “Lahori-Murtads” (Lahori-heretics). On this host website Shahid Aziz sahib started an exclusive section on its discussion forum for ‘Discussion with Qadianis’ regarding differences between Qadianis and Lahoris on subjects such as ‘Status of HMGA’ etc. This interaction of Qadianis outside their cult challenged them to go back to sources i.e. HMGA books and read for themselves what he had written. This opened Qadianis minds. And many of those who did a serious research are no longer Qadianis. Some have openly left Qadiani Jamaat and some have practically left, although they have not denounced their jamaat due to family and social reasons.
This interaction between Qadianis and Lahoris was very disturbing for Qadiani Jamaat Khalifa 4 Mirza Tahir Ahmad. He stopped his Qadiani followers. He said in his Khutba (from my memory): “You people should stop discussions with Lahoris. Because of lack of your own knowledge about Ahmadiyyat, you are unable to answer to Lahoris. I’m the Khalifa-e-Waqat and it is my responsibility to debate with Lahoris. I will reply to Lahoris”. Of course it was a trick of Qadiani Khalifa 4. He NEVER himself debated/ discussed issues creating differences with Lahoris. All he wanted to STOP his followers from seeing and finding the truth. Interestingly, on other side he never himself stopped inviting Lahoris to accept Qadiani interpretations in order to save their “Aqbat” (life after death).
Sad thing is that Qadianis continue to have “Delusions of Grandeur” and continue to engage Lahoris in individual capacities. But when they are asked to get their Qadiani Khalifa to appoint an official representative to have discussion with officially appointed representative of Lahoris on internet where everyone can benefit from discussion and record is kept (in tradition of HMGA e.g. his discussion with Christians i.e. Jang-e-Muqaddas) they run away.
In order to put an end to Qadiani-Lahori bickering, Maulana Muhammad Ali sahib asked Qadiani Khalifa 2 Mirza Mahmud Ahmad to make his Qadiani follower Sir Chaudhry Zafarullah Khan as judge where both parties i.e. Lahoris and Qadianis present their case on subject of ‘Status of HMGA’ etc. But the Qadiani Khalifa 2 did not accept, as he knew well that the truth will come out.
Qadiani Jamaat has old tradition of doing one-sided false propaganda and not having official honest debate. There was ONLY ONE time in history where a Qadiani i.e. Qadiani Khalifa 2 Mirza Mahmud Ahmad, spoke the truth and that was in Munir Inquiry Commission. And there he absolutely changed his long-held beliefs of the past 40 years.
From Rashid:
In Ikram’s article there is link to ‘Reply to Qadiani article’ by Dr. Zahid Aziz. In his reply Dr. ZA has provided link to article on Qadiani’s official website. When we click on link to Qadiani website it says:
Error 404: The page cannot be found
Page Not Found! The page you are looking for might have been removed, had its name changed, or is temporarily unavailable.
I hope Qadiani friends on this blog (Lutf and Dr. T. Ijaz) can provide link to Qadiani article.
In his article Dr. ZA wrote: “We have no hesitation in referring our readers to it [Qadiani article]. We hope (against hope) that the Qadianis will add a link on their website to this reply.”
I hope Qadianis show some fiber of honesty and moral courage, and provide link to Dr. ZA reply on their website.
http://www.ahmadiyya.org/qadis/reply.htm
http://www.alislam.org/true-islam/prophethood.html
From Usman:
I was just today listening to a lecture by Mr. Ghamdi (a well known Islamic Scholar) where he talks about the ending of Prophethood. He also talks at length about HMGA as Mirza Sahib is commonly associated with (rightly or wrongly) the concept of conitnuation of Prophethood after Muhamamd (saws) by most Pakistani Muslim. Keep in mind that Ghamdi is not an Ahmadi and strongly disagrees with the point that revelation can continue after Muhamamd (saws) and hence even rejects the Lahore ahamdiyya position. I say this to argue that he is an objective observor regarding Ahamdiyyat.
In his lecture he clearly says that:
1 – HMGA was a Sufi like other Sufis before him.
2 – Regarding Prophethood HMGA did not explicitly claim Prophethood and all his statements on the subject are no different from what other Sufis have been saying through the centuries.
3- That it was his Son (Mr. Mahmud) who first explicitly claimed prophethood for HGMA beyond what HMGA or other Sufis have claimed.
4 – That the Lahori Jammat composed of very close and staunch companions of HMGA (Ghamdi’s words) actually disagreed with this claim and formed a seperate Jamaat.
5 – Had it not been for Mr. Mahmud’s declaration, this issue would never have reached the stage that it has.
6- That HMGA was recognised as a great Aalim by some non-Ahmadi scholars of the time who paid glowing tributes to him when he died.
Interestingly this draws reactions from the audience, some of whom question Ghamdi’s judgement and also ask that then why did HMGA declare non-Ahmadis as Kafirs. In reply Ghamdi asks them to simply point out the explicit words of HMGA in this regard (earlier he had said they have his works in their Library) and says he would be happy to be proven wrong, but any accusation on HGMA shuold be based on facts.
I just thought it was interesting to note what a neutral modern say scholar has to say on the subject.
From A:
He is a simple person and from his lectures one can see he has studied Maulana Muhammad Ali’s translation. I have watched some of his programs and he is not a parrot like other mullahs.
>>revelation can continue after Muhamamd (saws)
If Allah speaks through a dream then is it revelation?
I questioned Allah’s power when i watched bombing compaign of Afghanistan on TV in 2001\2002. It was so sad and i could not understand that how can Allah remain mere Observer – i had this dream that night “Your land is famous for its fertility. They are after your land. But what they have taken before which they will take now? I am the One Who rewards and punishes one’s efforts (the actual urdu word is harvest of crop – I give reward or loss on a harvest). Its near that I send them back”.
Since then these words are a source of comfort for me.
From Rashid:
Usman, it will be highly appreciated if you could provide link to Ghamdi sahib program. Thanks.
From Rashid:
@Ikram:
Please refer your Qadiani friend to Maulana Muhmmad Ali book:
Aakhree Nabi [The Last Prophet]:
by Maulana Muhammad Ali
Maulana Muhammad Ali Refutes Mian Mahmud Ahmad’s Wrong Belief that the Holy Prophet Muhammad is not the ‘Last Prophet’
http://aaiil.org/urdu/books/muhammadali/aakhreenubee/aakhreenubee.shtml
From T Ijaz:
Mr Rashid,
http://www.alislam.org/library/books/Nubuwwat-and-Khilafat.pdf
the link that isn’t working now was to a 1966 speech by one of our missionaries, Maulana A Ata. It is now part of this book.
Perhaps Dr Aziz can update that.
The alislam site does not have a response/counterresponse format
From Rashid:
@Dr. Tahir Ijaz:
Unlike Dost Muhammad Shahid, the Qadiani historian and author of ‘Tarikh-I-Ahmadiyyat’ who wrote about people who were former members of Qadiani Jamaat and alive at time of publication of volume 19, without asking their opinion regarding issues he raised in volume 19; fairness demands that you (Dr. Tahir Ijaz) should impress upon your friend/ webmaster of Qadiani Official website to provide link to the Dr. Zahid Aziz article where Maulana A Ata speech is provided.
For information of all:
One of the founding members of Haqqiqat Passand Paty is Professor Chaudhry Ghulam Rasool sahib of Chak 35, near Sargodha. He is a former Waqaf-I-Zindghi, Khuddam (left safety and comfort of his home in Chack 35 and went to Qadian to defend it on call of Qadiani Khalifa 2 to Khuddam in 1947 there he got arrested while carrying arms on the outskirts of Qadian and spent many months in Indian Jails along with some other Qadianis including Aziz Bhamri) and Furqan Force member (he fought at Bimber sector, during Kashmir conflict in 1948). He is personal witness and was among audience to Qadiani Khalifa 2 speech in which he announced Urdu Translation of Holy Quran by Ismail Halalpuri, which became translation of Tafseer-I-Kabir and Tafseer-I-Sagheer published by Qadiani Jamaat. Qadiani Jamaat Khalifa 2 Mirza Mahmud Ahmad (QK2) and Doast Muhammad Shahid addressed him as Ghulam Rasool Painteery. He had only 10th grade education when he started publishing articles in newspapers regarding QK 2 character, financial and policies issues. QK 2 had ordered his followers to spit at him when they see him, and QK2 had predicted his death by murder within 2 years. Other then making every effort to disturb his education at Government College, Sargodha by implicating him in numerous false cases in Rabwah, and numerous times arresting him (famous Qadiani in Rabwah, Aziz Bahmri was responsible for all this); QK2 also sent people to murder him. Anyways, Allah SWT saved his life. One of the would-be murders confessed to him some years ago about his assignment to murder him (Prof. Ch. Ghulam Rasool sahib). QK2 made predictions that Chaudhry Ghulam Rasool will beg him for mercy with a beggar’s bowel in his hand. Just to update all those Qadianis who have read ‘Tarikh-I-Ahmadiyyat’ volume 19: Professor Chaudhry Ghulam Rasool sahib retired as professor after teaching in top Government colleges in Punjab, Pakistan. He is in his 80s, and MashAllah in good health. He holds Masters degrees in Arabic, Islamic Studies and Professional Degree in Law (LLB). He is author of 56 books. Some of his books on subjects such as Life of Holy Prophet Muhammad; Study of Comparative Religions; Answers to Objections on Islam; Islamic Social System; Islamic Economic System; and Islamic History are taught at Masters level in different Universities in Pakistan. MashAllah, His older son holds Degree in Doctor of Veterinary Medicine, M.Phil, Two Master degrees from West European University, and is currently persuing Doctorate (PhD) in a North American university. His younger son holds degree in Electrical Engineering. His two daughters are Physician and two son in-laws are Physicians. Needless to say when ever historian will do research of Qadiani Jamaat and Qadiani Khalifa 2, he/she will also consult and mention Prof. Ch. Ghulam Rasool books on character, financial, political ambitions and general policies of QK2, now as they have become available on internet and will InshAllah become more available in future.
From Usman:
@Rashid
I will see if the lecture is available online. You can get CD’s of his lectures from Ghamidi’s instutuion Al-Mawrid. I just copied the lectures on to my notebook from a friend who already had them.
On the topic, in another lecture Ghamidi makes the following additional points:
1 – HMGA was differant from other Sufis because he publicly proclaimed his beliefs (among the beliefs was being the Promised Messiah and Mahdi) and was agressive in doing so, while other Sufis tended to only propogate their beliefs in close circles. Also that HMGA said Muslims who reject his message will be accountable for doing so in the eyes of Allah (He quoted from, I think, Fateh Islam 1902). In Ghamdi’s opinion these issues are also responsible for the fact that reaction against HMGA was more severe as compared to reaction against other Sufis.
2 – Ghamdi also talks about the year of 1891 when HMGA proclaimed hinself the PM publicly. He specifically mentione HMGA’s corrospondence with Hakim Nur-ud-din wherein Hakim Nur-ud-Din encourages him to make this declaration while HMGA seems to be initially reluctant. Ghamdi appears to be implying (I am specifically saying “appears” because he is not explicit) that HMGA’s final proclamations were the result of varied influences including Nuruddin and that they developed over time (he says HMGA went from being “masil e maseeh” or like of Messiah to “maseeh mauood” or promised messiah. I however found the reply of HMGA very moving wherein he replies to Hakim Nuruddin that he is in no need to publicly decalre he is the Messiah but only wants to be among the succesful one in the eyes of Allah, however if Allah desires to put him in a trial, then he would have no choice but to comply. It seems HMGA was aware of the storm of opposition that would arise if such a claim is made.
I am not yet through listening to his talks on the subject which comprise a number of lectures. It apears as if Ghamdi has read HMGA as he refers to Brahin-e-Ahmadiyya, Kisht Nooh, Izala Auham, Fateh Islam and letters of HMGA.
From ikram:
I read the pertinent section of the book referred to by T. Ijaz i.e. “Positions Taken by the Ahmadiyyah Anjuman-e-Isha‘at-e-Islam After March 13, 1914 on Nubuwwat and Khilafat in the Ahmadiyyah Muslim Jama‘at” [pages 51-59]
Even if for the sake of argument it is accepted that what is mentioned in above referenced pages is all that transpired, I am convinced that Muhammad Ali and other like minded did one mistake. They should have taken the issue to the court for –
Firstly, to enforce the independent status of Sadr Anjuman and its authority over the figurehead of Khalifa in policy, administrative and executive decision matters which were highlighted by AAIIL:
“As regards the Sadr Anjuman Ahmadiyyah, he [Khalifatul Masih II] wants to keep complete control with himself. We disagree with that because the Promised Messiah has regarded the Anjuman as the vicegerent of the khalifah appointed by God and has regarded its decisions as final unless a Ma’mur [appointed by God] cancels them on the basis of a revelation from God.” [probably – Paigham-e-Sulh, quoted on page 54]
Secondly, to challenge the conflict of interest of the voters present in the meeting of the Sadr Anjuman:
“Today, a meeting of the Sadr Anjuman Ahmadiyyah was held. The following were present: Sahibzadah Mirza Bashir-ud-Din Mahmud Ahmad,…In short, it included five members who have not taken the pledge of allegiance to the second khilafat, and seven who have taken the pledge or are close relatives. They did what they wanted. Even matters not included in the agenda were approved in a dictatorial manner. Some members objected and wanted to have their disagreement noted. But it was not noted. These events foretell what is about to happen to the Sadr Anjuman Ahmadiyyah which is the successor to the khalifah of God [the Promised Messiahas].”
“…seven members, the members of the Anjuman, which comprised mostly of the relatives of Sahibzada Sahib and totaled eight including the vote of the presiding officer…” [Paigham-e-Sulh, quoted on page 55-56]
Do the math above: total 8 – Bashir-ud-din Mahmud – the relatives (to be plural, had to be at least 2 if not more) = 5, which is the same as the number of AAIIL walkouts. I am curious if Bashir-ud-din also voted for himself? In the end, Khalifa II could not have held sway in the court.
Let history be the Judge. I wonder if any person who has followed the natural consequences of this monopoly of powers and wealth in one person of the Rabwah Jamaat can convince him/herself of the “holiness” of the institution of Khalifa-II onwards. To my knowledge, HMGA and Nooruddin were spiritualists, thinkers and authors to which the world testifies, but thereafter all we hear is either a sucking sound of hollowness in the Khalifa-II and his lineage or arguments for self-preservation only. Nothing spiritual, intellectual or original is found in the “Khandan” i.e. the “family.” On a secular level, the comparison is almost to Muhmmad Ali Jinnah and Liaquat Ali Khan and then the heads of the state that followed them to the present times.
The author of the section in reference above tries to base his arguments in a pseudo intellectual and spiritual plane and in the process exposes his own incompetence of what it takes to run an organization of/for/by the people and totally blurs the secular administrative aspects of the organization and the spiritual leadership required of a figurehead.
The same author towards the end of the said section then further exposes his dearth of intellect and that of his knowledge of the spirit of Quran and Islam when he writes the following. Take a laugh at the intellectual ineptitude. If what he writes is not a metaphor but is an actual Islam and basis of Muhammad and HMGA, I reject them all:
“In brief, the denial of khilafat on the part of the Ahmadiyyah Anjuman-e-Isha‘at-e-Islam ended up in their denial of nubuwwat. The words zilli and buruzi, which the Promised Messiah had used to describe the high status granted to him, were used by the Ahmadiyyah Anjuman-e-Isha‘at-e-Islam to deny his nubuwwat. As a matter of fact, by using these terms, the Promised Messiah does not deny his claim of nubuwwat. Rather they indicate its high status, because the real nubuwwat is that of the Holy Prophet; all other prophethoods and spiritual stages are a reflection of the light of Muhammad. The ultimate cause of the creation of the universe is the holy personage of the Holy Prophet. According to the hadith, “The first thing that was created was my light,” the light of Muhammad was the first to be created. All other prophethoods and spiritual stages of perfection were created afterwards. However, until the time that the Holy Prophet himself appeared and the complete and perfect teaching was revealed in the Holy Qur’an, no Nabi could become a complete and perfect reflection of the Holy Prophet. Therefore, no Nabi was called a zilli Nabi. But when the Holy Prophet himself appeared and the complete and perfect teaching was revealed in the Holy Qur’an, then the being who completely lost his own identity in submission to the Holy Prophet was declared to be complete reflection of the Holy Prophet and was deemed fit for the title of zilli Nabi. The earlier Añbiya’, since they were only partial reflection of the Holy Prophet did not deserve that title.”
I laugh because this author is stuck in the planet earth like Vatican at the time of Galileo with earth at the center of the universe. Even Quran mentions of life forms beyond earth. Then this author is telling us that all those “aliens” on zillions of planets are waiting for earthly humans to develop spaceships that will carry the Quran and Sunnah of Muhammad to them and translate it in languages they understand and only then those “aliens” will be guided aright in the manner the author is himself enlightened and guided, for the simple reason – to quote him – The ultimate cause of the creation of the universe is the holy personage of the Holy Prophet. I further laugh at Rabwah Jamaat for this is what they have to offer to the world. Clearly, theirs is not the Jamaat of a revivalist but of an entrapper.
About life forms beyond earth, Quran states:
21:30. Do those who disbelieve not see that the heavens and the earth were (once) one mass all closed up, then We rent them apart. And it is from water that We created all life. Will they not believe (in the face of all this).
42:29. The creation of the heavens and the earth and (the creation of) each living thing He has spread forth in them both are some of His Signs. Indeed He is Possessor of every power over gathering them together whenever He will.
[Holy Quran – Nooruddin]
From ikram:
In the same book, if you read the section “Nubuwwat of the Promised Messiah – References up to 1914 from those who did not take the pledge of allegiance with the Khilafat-e-Ahmadiyyah after the demise of Hadrat Khalifatul Masih I”[pages 7-22], it becomes very clear about the higher level of intellect of the Muhammad Ali, Khawaja Kamaluddin and others. Their use of Nabi and Rasul is poignantly made clear by the quote of Abdur Rahman Misri [and their own writings elsewhere] on page 21:
“…Later, the sense in which I saw these words used in the books of the Promised Messiah does not go against my belief [of main stream Muslim]. In this sense, I still consider his holiness (may peace be upon him) to be a Nabi by way of reflection—i.e., without a new shari‘ah, and a Nabi who acquires that status by full obedience to the Holy Prophets…”
This is clearly usage of metaphor by Misri Sahib, just like Ghalib:
Ibne maryam huwa kare koi
May there be (likes of) son of Mary (-Jesus)
Mere dard ki dawa kare koi
May someone relieve my pain (and misery, the cure of which is nothing short of a miracle)
Those who have read this Urdu verse in school will recall that they did not come across it in textbooks till they were of age 15 or more. Why?
The answer is simply that it requires maturity of mind to understand a metaphor. A younger or immature mind is unable to decipher metaphor, allegory or mix of both. Ironically, it is the same argument that Jamaat Rabwah makes to Mullahs about the second coming of Jesus.
A metaphor and that too in a Sufi-istic connotation requires even higher maturity and insight, which is not that common. Just like Mirage of Muhammad, the spiritual experience is difficult to share as there may not be words in any language to express them and when a common language is used to share the experience then the listeners make all kind of weird interpretations in congruence to their level of intellect. Of note is that we do not come across any significant narrations of Miraj by Muhammad for the same reasons.
This is where Rabwah Jamaat fell short and is reflected in concreteness of their reading of the quotes of HMGA and writings of Muhammad Ali and AAIIL. And to keep their end easy, the Rabwah Jamaat does not hesitate to quote out of context, because to bring the context into view, it needs higher understanding and intellectual struggle. If done so, Khilafat the way it is maintained, nurtured and preserved will be no more.
AAIIL members before the split were living in company of a living Sufis (HMGA, Nooruddin) and their experiences, so they too spoke and wrote in the of metaphors of the time. Clearly when they realized how concretely the masses for and against HMGA were interpreting them, they like HMGA spent and wasted lots of their time to rebut those concrete interpretations. Thereafter, all the elders of AAIIL, independently toned downed and simplified their writings to the level of the general intellect of masses and audience.
This aspect is well understood by Ghamdi as quoted by Usman:
“…HMGA was different from other Sufis because he publicly proclaimed his beliefs (among the beliefs was being the Promised Messiah and Mahdi) and was agressive in doing so, while other Sufis tended to only propogate their beliefs in close circles…”
“…about the year of 1891 when HMGA proclaimed hinself the PM publicly…while HMGA seems to be initially reluctant…I however found the reply of HMGA very moving wherein he replies to Hakim Nuruddin that he is in no need to publicly declare he is the Messiah but only wants to be among the successful one in the eyes of Allah, however if Allah desires to put him in a trial, then he would have no choice but to comply. It seems HMGA was aware of the storm of opposition that would arise if such a claim is made…”
Obviously the metaphor and insight that Sufis use needs a level of intellectual plane which is not that common and if disclosed to masses (who think concretely) for sure creates a storm that is quite distracting to the Sufi from his original mission of life. Lo and behold! that’s exactly what happened to HMGA. It got lost on most of his followers and his opponents. Both took him for a Prophet that he never was. It was with this anticipation that he clarified and declared to strike out the word Prophet – see this link.
On the reverse, Khalifa-II either was concrete himself or conniving that he understood the intellectual level of the followers and used the word “Prophet” to his advantage to secure for himself and his progeny something no Islamic tradition is proud of.
Simply put – “It’s the Metaphor Stupid!”
—
P.S. the book in reference is actually not a book, but Speeches delivered in presence of the Khalifa. They should not be taken for any intellectual and academic depth except point scoring and eulogizing the Lordship. It was not a debate or research forum.
From Rashid:
Dear Qadiani Jamaat Friends Lutf and Dr. T. Ijaz:
Many years ago I read a book by your jamaat elder Maulana Abul Ata Jalandhri.
Its name was some thing like: ‘Ibtilah Aur Siza Mein Furq’ (Difference between tribulations and punishment). The author built his case based on Holy Quran. I will greatly appreciate if you gentlemen could provide link to this book. Thanks.
From Mohammed Iqbal:
Kindly tell us about the history of Haqeeqat Pasand Party. Are they still active. Or did they got gradually absorbed into LAM or re absorbed into Qadiani Jamat. Are there any of their members here in India?
From Rashid:
@Muhammad Iqbal:
Haqqiqat Passand Party was nothing more than about half a dozen young members of Qadiani Jamaat. They were former Waqaf-I-Zindghi. They worked in different offices of Qadiani Jamaat Khalifa 2 in Rabwah. They were so few but they shook the Qadiani Jamaat Khalifa 2 Mirza Mahmud Ahmad (QK2). Even today, the literature you come across that questions QK2 personal character, financial portfolio, political ambitions, and Qadiani Jamaat policies are result of HPP. They reproduced some of the older literature of former Qadianis who questioned personal character of QK2 and added much more to it by doing sting operation. One of HPP members entered inside the inner private ring of QK2 and his family and followers. He produced an eyewitness account. In addition they interviewed and collected sworn statements of former insiders of QK2 circle. They published old evidences such as articles of Mian Zahid of Muabiliah Group, Abdul Rehman Misri sahibs letter to QK2, articles and court trial and its decision of murder of Fakhar Ud Din Multani Shaheed, issue of Miss Rufo visit to Qadian published in Punjab press in 1930, poetry of Maulana Zafar Ali Khan regarding Miss Rufo, QK2 Friday Khutabas in which he acknowledged Miss Rufo visit to Qadian and his own visits to “fun” places during his trips of Europe, in company of Sir Chaudhry Zafarullah Khan. HPP members challenged QK2 to hold an open inquiry commission by people of his selection from his Qadiani Jamaat and HPP will only produce witnesses and also make QK2 testify under oath. QK2 NEVER held such an inquiry. Reason was simple he did not want matter to get more public. Neither QK2 filed lawsuit against HPP in Pakistani courts.
HPP had a very simple strategy. They contacted editors of many Pakistani Urdu newspapers e.g. Zamindar, Chitan, Nawa-e-Pakistan, Kohistan, Nawa-e-Waqat etc. and asked them that HPP agenda is NOT to prove or disprove whether Jesus is alive and sitting in heaven or he is dead; NOT to prove or disprove whether HMGA was genuine mamur-min-Allah or not; whether Lahori-Ahmadis are right or Qadiani-Ahmadis are right; all they want is to expose QK2 and his immoral life, financial portfolio details and how that money was collected, political ambitions and Qadiani nazam-e-jamaat policies. HPP published many articles in newspapers, and in form of pamphlets. They came up with one ingenius idea. HPP got short articles/ testimonies printed on 10 pisa post-office cards and sold them to Qadianis and non-Qadianis. Buyers purchased them and mailed them to their Qadiani friends and families. This way they were able to enter into homes of Qadianis, just the way today HPP literature enters in to homes of Qadianis through internet. HPP members published Mubahilia Challenge (prayer duel) and even challenged people like Sir Chaudhry Zafarullah Khan and QK2 son Mirza Rafi Ahmad. No one accepted their challenges.
Of course QK2 tried to get HPP members killed and implicated them into false criminal cases. HPP members had to get security, and in some cases Punjab Police officer use to accompany them all day, every day for many years. Their families were not allowed to have any contact with them on orders of QK2. It was total social boycott. When Qadiani elder Malik Abdur Rehman Khadim Gujrati was on his sick bed and his younger brother a HPP member was NOT allowed to visit him. There were Qadiani guards outside his room in hospital. Even his brother was NOT allowed to offer funeral prayer (janazah).
Two important points about HPP:
One:
Marhoom Abdul Mannan Omar sahib son of Maulana Noor Ud Din sahib was NEVER a member of HPP. It was QK2 who bundled him with HPP, just to malign him and to get him out of the way of becoming any possible challenge to Mirza Nasir Ahmad (QK2 eldest son and QK3) for next headship of Qadiani Jamaat.
Two:
HPP members were ALL Qadiani Jamaat people. They did NOT receive any support from Lahore Ahmadiyya Movement. Actually they were discouraged. Few years ago a book got published by HPP member ‘Rabwah Kaa Rasputin—Mirza Mahmud Ki Kahani Muriddon Ki Zabani’ (Rasputin of Rabwah—Story of Mirza Mahmud from the tongues of his disciples) and Lahore Ahmadiyya Movement passed a resolution expressing their rejection of this book. In my opinion LAM leadership under present Amir had NO need to pass such resolution. May be they did it under some fear that Qadiani Jamaat will accuse LAM of supporting publication of this book. Just the way, like in past, QK2 and Qadianis accused LAM of supporting and using HPP.
Anyways, HPP members fight was with QK2, and as QK2 died, HPP members also lost interest in their movement. I don’t know if HPP members ever formally joined LAM, but some of them are buried in LAM graveyard. Couple of HPP members are still alive. HPP was always a Pakistan based. None of their members were from India.
Now many of HPP literature is being reproduced by Khalid Mateen, from Lahore. Unfortunately, he is also staunch opponent of HMGA, and criticizes him. As a result he LOSES to win support among Qadianis. He loses credibility among Qadianis. He FAILS in making headway among Qadianis. Qadianis because of their love and respect for HMGA also reject what Khalid Mateen has to say about QK2. Khalid Mateen’s such approach goes in favor of QK2.
From Abid Aziz:
I lived in Ahmadiyya Buildings for a period of at least six years. I used to attend and conduct Jummah prayers at Ahmadiyya Buildings mosque. During this time an aged person Malik Aziz ur Rehman (I am not sure if he was a member of HPP) also used to attend Jummah prayers at the same mosque. He used to talk about the personal life of Mirza Mehmood Ahmad. He used to tell about how he and some other people confronted Mirza Mehmood Ahmad. It makes me shiver to even mention what he said about Mirza Mehmood Ahmad’s personal life. I will not mention his words here.
The time period that I mentioned above was his last years of life. He was an ardent lover of HMGA and often spoke about him with respect. At one time he told us that Mirza Tahir Ahmad has sent him a message through a member of Qadiani Jammat. According to him Mirza Tahir Ahmad asked him that why he is still talking about Mirza Mehmood Ahmad’s personal life even after many years of his death. Malik Aziz ur Rehman replied that he will stop talking against him if Qadiani people accept and declare that Mirza Mehmood Ahmad was not Musleh Mauood.
He used to say that he has no problem if Qadiani jammat considers Mirza Mehmood Ahmad as Khalifa as sometimes such a person can also become a khalifa but such a person cannot be Musleh Mauood.
From Rashid:
@Muhammad Iqbal:
In my last post addressed to you I mentioned name of Zamindar newspaper. I need to correct it. Zamindar was no more in circulation by the time Haqqiqat Passand Party (HPP) was formed.
There was another Urdu newspaper that gave coverage to HPP. It was ‘Mashriq’ from Lahore.
Famous Pakistani journalist and author Z. A. Suleri was a former Qadiani. He founded an evening newspaper in Karachi ‘Times of Karachi’. He was the first one to give coverage to HPP in his evening newspaper.
Z.A. Suleri entry on wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Z._A._Suleri
From Rashid:
@Abid Aziz sahib:
“Malik Aziz ur Rehman replied that he will stop talking against him if Qadiani people accept and declare that Mirza Mehmood Ahmad was not Musleh Mauood.
He used to say that he has no problem if Qadiani jammat considers Mirza Mehmood Ahmad as Khalifa as sometimes such a person can also become a khalifa but such a person cannot be Musleh Mauood.”
In a recent conversation with Professor Chaudhry Ghulam Rasool sahib, he said, “the fact that even today people question personal life of Qadiani Jamaat Khalifa 2 Mirza Mahmud Ahmad is testimony to fact that he made false claim of ‘Musleh Mauood’. And since per prophecies of HMGA regarding Musleh Mauood there is one which points to his spotless character. And Allah does not tolerate those who falsely make claims of being appointees of Him.”
It is very interesting to note that Rasul Allah SAWS before making his claim of messenger of Allah invited his tribesmen to find fault in his personal character. Similarly, HMGA repeatedly challenged his critics to find faults in his personal character. He even challenged his arch opponent Maulvi Muhammad Hussain Bitalvi with whom he spent many years of his youth and as young man. No one could find any fault.
On the other hand opponents refer to writings and speeches of children of HMGA, which were written after HMGA death, to point out faults in HMGA personal character. I am referring to ‘Seerat-ul-Mahdi’ by Mirza Bashir Ahmad and Friday Khutba of Mirza Mahmud Ahmad (QK2) in which he read a letter and alleged it to be “written by some Paighami (LAM member)”. Mirza Mahmud Ahmad did NOT refute charges written in that “letter”. It is clear that all Mirza Mahmud Ahmad wanted to create justification for immorality in his personal life by alleging it that HMGA also committed the same acts. Of course such letter could have NEVER been written by any LAM member. Knowing about life of Mirza Mahmud Ahmad, I am sure he himself wrote that “letter”.
It is historical fact that all through his life, from late teen years to the time he was able to walk and talk charges of immorality were made by different people from different generations. They had two things in common. They all were his staunch followers, who decided to live in Qadian in 1914 and then in Rabwah. Nature of these charges were the same. More or less charges were brought up every 10 years. First charges were during the life on HMGA. Then there were couple of young men who in initial years of Mirza Mahmud Ahmad Khilafat use to post hand written posters outside Masjid-Mubarik. QK2 managed to send them to USA. They were eventually called ‘Amreekie’. Then came time of ‘Mubailiah Group’. Then came ‘Fakhar-ud-Din Multani and Shaikh Abdur Rehman Misri sahib group’. After Qadiani Jamaat moved to Pakistan, then came ‘Haqqiqat Passand Party’. Then came ‘Rabay Group’. Now Internet has once given new life to all those charges.
From Rashid:
Please read the following, Maulana Muhammad Ali sahib article in support of what I have commented, earlier, on Qadiani Jamaat Khalifa 2 Mirza Mahmud Ahmad (QK2) strategy to run way from clarifying his position by making statement under oath, or by appointing an inquiry commission of his own followers. Instead QK2 always made efforts to malign his own father HMGA and Rasul Allah SAWS.
Mian Mahmud Ahmad par un kay Murideen kay Ilzamat aur Bariyyat ka Nirala Tareeq:
by Maulana Muhammad Ali
Translation of Maulana Muhammad Ali article is also published as Appendix I, under heading: ‘Peculiar Technique of Sel-Exoneration –Mudslinging against the Righteous’. In book ‘Truth Triumphs’ by Mumtaz Ahmad Farooqi. Pdf pages 66 to 70:
I also recommend Questions asked by honorable judges of Munir Inquiry Commission and their replies by QK2. Pdf pages 62 to 65.
From Mohammed Iqbal:
@Rashid
I had read “Truth Triumphs” long time back and a Qadiani refutation called “Truth Prevails”, which sought to refute MAF’s charges against KQ2. For instance KQ2 running away from Qadian donning a woman’s burqa has
been described as a fabrication . What is the truth?
From Mohammed Iqbal:
@ Rashid
So Tafsir Kabir and Tafsir Sagheer were written by one Ismail Halalpuri! This is news to me. I was given to understand they were written by KQ2 himself. Pls clarify
From Rashid:
@Mohammed Iqbal
Qadiani Khalifa 2 escaped donned in Burqa:
According to marhoom Abdul Mannan Omar sahib son of Maulana Noor ud Din sahib, he was, on the second level, in a house across the street from Qadiani Khalifa 2 Mirza Mahmmud Ahmad house. It was daytime. He heard someone in the street shouting “curfew”, “curfew”. He moved closer to the window. He saw a man running in a street shouting “curfew”, “curfew”, and asking people to go inside their houses. Abdul Mannan Omar sahib kept standing near the window. After some time a Jeep came and two figures donned in black color Burqa, came out of QK2 house and rode in jeep.
Later that day at meal in company of other Qadiani members [these qadianis were at responsible positions in Qadiani organization. Sorry I forgot their names], some one said [sorry I forgot the name]: “Woah Khariat sey poanch gye hein” (They have reached safely). Later it was clear that QK2 escaped to Lahore with one of his wives. QK2 escaped along with his wife donned in Burqa.
FYI:
Qadiani jamaat had bought an airplane in recent months that used to land in a ground on the skirts of Qadian. QK2 and his wife went in jeep to the aircraft and then traveled by it to Lahore.
The night before QK2 escaped on Radio announcement was made that QK2 has announced that his followers will remain in Qadian. And few days before that QK2 himself announced that he went to grave of Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad sahib and promised that he will never abandon his grave and will stay in Qadian and protect it.
He also asked Khuddam from around the country, including those living in Pakistan, to come to the defense of Qadian. And young people did assembled in Qadian. Professor Chaudhry Ghulam Rasool was in his village Chuck #35 near Sargodha. By the time he reached Lahore on his way to Qadian, QK2 had already arrived in Rattan-Bagh, Lahore.
It was interesting to see Imam of Lal Masjid, Islamabad Maulana Abdul Aziz also tried to escape from Lal Masjid along with his wife both donned in Burqa, few years ago, when military action was being carried.
Ismail Halalpuri:
Professor Chaudhry Ghualm Rasool himself listened to QK2 speech in Qadian (it was not long before independence of India), when QK2 announced said:
“I wanted to do ‘tarjuma’ (translation) of Holy Quran. But when ever I sat to do it, so many and so vast subjects and ‘uloom-e-Quran’ come into my mind that I couldnot put them in short sentences of translation of verses. So I decided to do the ‘tafseer’ (commentary) of Holy Quran. I asked Islmail Halalpuri sahib to do the translation of Holy Quran. And he has completed it. I will do the ‘tafseer’ of Holy Quran. According to professor Chaudhry Gulam Rasool sahib he got so much impressed by QK2 knowledge at the time.
Now it is a different detail on how a team of 6 authors (according to Professor Chaudhry Ghulam Rasool sahib) and 7 authors (according to marhoom Abdul Mannan Omar sahib) authored some 15 parts ‘tafseer’ of Tafseer-e-Kabir. Please remember it is not a complete tafseer.
As there is no individual translation of Holy Quran by Ismail Halalpuri published under his name as translator, as Holy Quran translation by Maulvi Sher Ali sahib is published under his name, so it becomes difficult to prove that someone’s work is published as QK2 work. Please note Maulvi Sher Ali sahib translation of Holy Quran is published as QK2 work under QK2 name in 5 volumes Holy Quran Translation and Commentary in English language by Qadiani Jamaat.
FYI: One of the author of tafseer-e-Kabir was Noor ul Haq aka Maulvi Pawa. One day in company of few people he said, “it is us and mentioned his own name that author tafseer-e-Kabir and Hazoor (QK2) takes credit for it”. He requested listeners to keep it secret. Anyways, Chaudhry Abdul Hameed Dadda sahib was among the listeners and he informed professor Chaudhry Ghulam Rasool sahib. He wrote an article ‘Tafseer-e-Kabir ka Haqqiqi Musanaf’ (the real author of tafseer-e-Kabir) in Urdu newspaper ‘Nawa-e-Pakistan’. QK2 was outside Rabwah, vacationing in Jabba. He read the article and came rushing back to Rabwah. He assembled everyone in Masjid-Mubarik and made speech that: I am author of tafseer-e-Kabir and people say that maulvi Pawa is the author. He called maulvi Pawa and asked him, “who is the author of tafseer-e-Kabir?” People who are aware of power of QK2 in Qadian and Rabwah can figure out what would be the answer of Maulvi Pawa. Of course maulvi Pawa replied, “hazoor yeh tafseer tu aap kar rehay hein” (Hazoor you are authoring the Tafseer-e-Kabir).
From Mohammed Iqbal:
@Rashid
Thanks very much for the elaborate explanation. I dont know Urdu and cant read Urdu Tafsirs. Your explanation perhaps explains why there are discrepancies in the two Tafsirs. (eg. in explaining “ismuhu Ahmed”). But I understand That the English translation is credited to Sher Ali Sahib and not to QK2. Or do they have a different English Tafsir? Thanks also for informing that TK is an incomplete one.
From Rashid:
@Mohammed Iqbal
I will write a post ‘Truth about Holy Translations published by Qadiani Jamaat’. I will provide links to prove that Holy Quran Tafseer in English propagated/published as authored by Mirza Mahmud Ahmad IN FACT uses Maulvi Sher Ali translation. In the mean time you may compare the two tafaseer.
From Rashid:
Anwar Ibrahim, Malaysian opposition leader is fighting to restore his honor. Qadiani Jamaat Khalifa 2 Mirza Mahmud Ahmad, who claimed to be “Musleh-Mahud” and head of religious organization NEVER found courage to clear his name from same and more charges against him as faced by Anwar Ibrahim.
NY times article:
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/03/world/asia/03malay.html?_r=1&hp
From Khan:
O Qadiani people! come to Islam. Leave your devil thoughts and embrace Islam.
Quran and Hadees clearly states that Muhammad (PBUP) is the last and final messager of Allah.
Don’t you afraid of Allah or you don’t believe on Kayamat!! or you will not die on day!
I wish you Peace and pray for you/
From Zahid Aziz:
I hope, Mr Khan, that you will read some of our daily Ramadan Quran studies being published on this blog. You will then be able to see to what extent we are expressing “devil thoughts” and to what extent the Word of Allah.