Are Qadiani Jamaat Friends in violation of teachings of their “Musleh-Mauood”?
Submitted by Rashid Jahangiri.
Qadiani Jamaat people believe their Qadiani Khalifa 2 Mirza Mahmud Ahmad was the “Musleh-Mauood”.
For Qadianis practice in teachings of their QK 2 is matter of their belief. This is the reason they cite when they decide not to offer Namaz-e-Janazah (funeral prayer) of Lahore Ahmadiyya Jamaat members. Please remember LAM members do not consider any reciter of Kalima-Shahada as Kafir (non-Muslim) regardless of how aberrant their beliefs and practices of Islam are. This is the reason LAM members do not consider Qadianis as Kafir. My point is that in practice of their beliefs Qadianis don’t give a hoot to blood relations, close family ties and the hurt that they cause by showing disrespect to the deceased and his survivors.
QK 2 in his famous book ‘Anwar-e-Khilafat’ from page 124 to 127 has written following statements:
“I say there shall be thousands of prophets”
“I say even now there can be a prophet”
“Even if someone placed a sword on my neck and ask me to say there cannot be any nabi after Rasul Allah, I will say you’re a liar, and nabi can come after and they will come.”
Now given the teachings of QK 2 that “thousands of prophets” can come after Holy Prophet Muhammad Rasool Allah (SAWS), it is incumbent upon Qadianis that should accept at least the following new prophet in Germany, especially when he endorses Qadianis belief that HMGA was “prophet” and invites Qadiani-Ahmadis to pledge to him:
The New Claimant of Prophethood Zahid Ali Khan:
Kanal von khanverlag
http://www.youtube.com/user/khanverlag
Khan’s Rede und die Gegenveranstaltung der Muslime
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JPufZz1nHzA&feature=related
Here I ask question to Qadiani Jamaat friends:
Don’t you think you people are in violation of QK 2 teachings by delaying in accepting Zahid Ali Khan as NEW prophet??
Thanks in advance for answering.
From ikram:
Even if members of Qadiani Jamaat accept QK-2’s declarations “I say there shall be thousands of prophets,” “I say even now there can be a prophet,” the Qadiani Khalifas will never accept such a claimant.
I will always feel sorry for QK, current or future, in the above matter. He is damned if he does, damned if he doesn’t. In the former case he will lose the coveted prize of bloodline, the Khilafat and its perks. In the latter, he will reject his own forefather, the QK-2 claim of “Musleh-Mauhood.”
Therefore, the Qadianis and/or their Khalifas will always refute any claimant of prophethood. In doing so they unknowingly will be benefiting from the Law of Quran, i.e. Muhammad PBUH is the final Seal of validation and Seal on the door of prophethood, because all such claimants, past or present after Prophet Muhammad, are false prophets, irrespective of what QK-2 said in his infinite wisdom.
So, the Qadiani fall back position of denial of any claimant of prophethood will be a win-win situation for their Jamaat. The QKs will keep collecting donations and the Qadianis will always have someone to bow to. Hallelujah!
From Shabeeb Haneef:
Meanwhile it is incumbent upon you to accept the next mujadid as according to you mirza ghulam ahmad(as) was only the 14th century mujadid. Who is your current mujadid rashid sb?
What happened to that institution? Its over 100 years and you havent accepted the next mujadid. Oh No…what to do? And fortunately today we have a bunch of mujadids to select from as well. All the best
From ikram:
Mr. Haneef is trying to play a numbers game rather than a moral one. According to QK-2, the claimant of “Musleh Mauhood” there will thousands of Prophets, whereas per HMGA there will be one Mujaddid (at least) per Islamic century. Historically, 1-2 Mujaddids arrived per century so far.
Now the argument shifts to some fundamentals. Can Mr. Haneef deny that HMGA believed in Mujaddids before him? Answer, HMGA believed in Mujaddids before him. Then, does HMGA deny future Mujaddids? Answer, HMGA’s own legacy is based upon continuity of this chain of Mujaddids and he invigorated the concept of Mujaddids for future generations as well, thus giving hope to Islam.
Statistically, if QK-2 is correct then by now there should had been hundreds of Prophets since the death of HMGA, and possibly one Mujaddid per general Muslim belief. If both LAM and Qadianis are wrong, then who is more wrong? Obviously, by sheer numbers, Qadianis are worse off and out of the ball-park.
If and when, such claimants arrive and prove their credentials, a Mujaddid will be accepted by Muslims from within LAM and general Muslims alike, just like HMGA who was accepted by his contemporaries of main stream Islam. Whereas, for a claimant of a Prophet, the first rejection will come from QK, if nothing else, at least from his conflict of interest, because he will be the first one to lose his seat.
So, dear brothers and sisters of Qadiani Jamaat, you have been taken for a ride. This ride will continue till arrival of a Mujaddid. There is a difference between claimant and a credentialed candidate. So far the recent Mujaddid claimants who essentially all belong to Qadiani Jamaat do not carry the credentials that we constantly verify. We are waiting, and the current Islamic century is not over yet. Are you waiting too? If yes, then it will be a very long wait as the last Prophet has already passed, i.e. Prophet Muhammad (PBUH).
From Rashid:
@Shabeeb Haneef sahib:
Lahori-Ahmadis do NOT deny Hadith of Muhammad Rasool Allah SAWS prophesying advent of Mujaddids in every Hijra Century. Whereas Qadiani Khalifas have been denying this Hadith.
Please show us a person who fits into shoes of Mujaddid of 14th century i.e. Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad and we Lahori-Ahmadis will be among the first people who do his ba’it (pledge). We are waiting for that Mujaddid of 15th Islamic century to lead the charge of peaceful propagation of Islam.
Shabeeb sahib question for you Qadiani-Ahamdis:
Do you believe in your “Musleh Mahud” following statements?
QK 2 in his famous book ‘Anwar-e-Khilafat’ from page 124 to 127 has written following statements:
“I say there shall be thousands of prophets”
“I say even now there can be a prophet”
“Even if someone placed a sword on my neck and ask me to say there cannot be any nabi after Rasul Allah, I will say you’re a liar, and nabi can come after and they will come.”
PLEASE ANSWER YES OR NO. Thanks.
From Deen Ahmad:
This is nothing but beating around the bush.
@Mr. Rashid & Mr.Ikram:
Why should you care about “Qadiani” belief when it is time to accept a mujaddid?!
Why do you want them to show a mujaddid when you too have the responsibility to accept?
If you are truthful, you must be the one accepting the Mujaddid of the century and guiding them to accept. So sad!!!
The question is very simple.
As you mentioned, if you do not deny the Hadith of the continuity of Mujaddis, please let the Muslim ummah (especially mainstream Ahmadis) know who is the Mujaddid of the 15th century. Remember in which year are we living.
Failing to do so, you must explain why there is no mujaddid even if it is time for one to arrive.
Until you find and accept the Mujaddid of this century, you have no right to speak about this.
From Zahid Aziz:
Mr Deen Ahmad writes: “As you mentioned, if you do not deny the Hadith of the continuity of Mujaddis, please let the Muslim ummah (especially mainstream Ahmadis)…”
The “Muslim Ummah” themselves believe in the hadith about mujaddids and had accepted mujaddids of various centuries, even calling one of them as “mujaddid of the second millenium” (mujaddid alif sani). So it is equally their responsibility to explain why mujaddids stopped coming.
As to “mainstream Ahmadis”, they need to explain why the Promised Messiah repeatedly mentioned the hadith about mujaddids coming in every century until the very last day of his life, in fact less than 24 hours before he died, and why he wrote about this hadith in “Haqiqat-ul-Wahy” as being the sign number 1 of his truth. They need to explain his following published statement in his autobiography:
“Then, when the thirteenth century came to a close and the fourteenth century was about to dawn, God the Most High informed me by revelation: You are the Mujaddid of this century.” (Kitab-ul-Bariyya. The bolding here is not mine, these words are in bold in the original Urdu text.)
I can give speculative explanations about the question directed at us (“speculative” because it is Allah Who appoints mujaddids and we cannot get mujaddids appointed in accordance with our whims).
In some previous centuries mujaddids arose quite late in the century. Shah Waliullah was born 14 years after the start of his century. The first mujaddid, Umar bin Abdul Aziz, did his reform work at the end of the first century.
Then there is the question of need. If a mujaddid is not required at the start of a century, since the reform work of the previous one is still entirely valid, then this can override the promise to send a mujaddid at that time.
Then, as some have pointed out, Hazrat Mirza sahib was given the title “Zil Qarnain”, or man of two centuries. So he may be mujaddid of two centuries, as he was the greatest among the mujaddids. After all, there can be exceptional cases even when a rule (i.e. “every century”) has been laid down.
Now I have put forward various explanations. So the “Muslim Ummah” and “mainstream Ahmadis” should now give their respective explanations. Is it that the hadith was fabricated, or was it time-limited so that its promise terminated with Hazrat Mirza sahib? Naturally, they should give some evidence of whichever is their standpoint, and be prepared to deal with counter-arguments.
From Rashid:
@Deen Ahmad sahib:
After posting the original post in this thread, I predicted to my brother:
Qadiani Jamaat friends will say everything and anything except openly accepting or rejecting their “Musleh-Mahud” beliefs as written in ‘Anwar-e-Khilafat’ from page 124 to 127.
The beliefs of Qadiani Khalifa 2 has become DOUBLE EDGED SWORD for his followers. As Ikram said, Qadianis are damned if they accept QK2 beliefs, and are damned if they reject QK2 beliefs. I hope this should be food for thought for followers of QK2.
Deen Ahmad sahib, in this thread I a Lahori-Ahmadi asked Qadianis a question, so please answer it first. If you Qadiani-Ahmadi want to ask Lahoris a question, please start a new thread. So, once again I repeat my question for you:
Do you believe in your “Musleh Mahud” following statements?
QK 2 in his famous book ‘Anwar-e-Khilafat’ from page 124 to 127 has written following statements:
“I say there shall be thousands of prophets”
“I say even now there can be a prophet”
“Even if someone placed a sword on my neck and ask me to say there cannot be any nabi after Rasul Allah, I will say you’re a liar, and nabi can come after and they will come.”
PLEASE ANSWER YES OR NO. Thanks.
From Shabeeb Haneef:
Assalamualaikum wa Rahmathullahi wa Barakathuhu
A moment to ponder for my dearest lahori brothers.
Have you ever noticed the fact that the senior lahori members always try to prove the truthfulness of LAM by deliberately bringing in Hazrath Musleh Maud(ra). Either they will keep on blaming him or will come up with a very minute portion of his writings and build a huge palace of imagination graciously misinterpreted.
Something similar happened here as well.
I always wonder about this. Not even once have I seen the Ahmadiyya Muslim Community seeking refuge by misinterpreting or blaming the words of Lahori leaders, to prove their beliefs. Our beliefs has its root in Holy Quran and Holy Sunnah but not in the words of any Lahori leaders.
The Question of future Prophets.???
I wonder what is the ambiguity here. Me being an ahmadi, most certainly say and believe that as long as Holy Quran opens the door of zilli prophet hood, no sane ahmadi can say that no more prophets can come.
Yes yes yes….Prophets can come in future. But that does not mean every tom dick and harry who claims so needs to be believed without any kind of analysis.
Let it be clear to all my lahori brothers who are busy in misguiding people against us via such blogs (this does not include all lahoris of the world).
The key to this ummah for every single thing is in the hands of my master the Holy Prophet (sa). He (sa) has fore told every single thing that will happen in this Ummah. And it is indeed he(sa) who called the promised messiah as a ‘nabi’.
Our position is as simple as this. As far as our knowledge goes, Holy Prophet (sa) has given the basharat of such a nabi about one single person. And that was Promised Messiah (as).
If there is any more prophets, be it 10000 or 100000, they would definitely come with the proof for their truthfulness as promised messiah came. They will point to verses of Quran and Hadith and bring out pearls of unseen wisdom. They will point to their own truthfulness from Holy Quran and Hadith and declare that, these references are about me.
Just like the nubuvvat of promised messiah, when the next prophet comes, he is obliged to give his proofs from Holy Quran and authentic hadith. He is obliged to fulfill all the criterion that the promised messiah (as) has taught us to be that of a divine appointee. He would shed light upon verses of Quran and bring new new unseen pearls of wisdom from it. Proofs regarding his arrival would also have been foretold by Holy Prophet (sa), but which and where will be shown by him alone just like Promised Messiah (as) showed his proofs.
Every single prophet did give the proof for himself. The burden of proofs always lies upon the claimant.
So our duty is to supplicate before Allah. Ask him, beseech before him.
Learn every single claim you come across. Such claims are not at all a new thing in muslim ummah. We have had a lot and will surely have a lot. But this does not mean that every single claimant is true and needs to be believed.
I personally have tried to contact and learn the contemporary claimants like Janbah Sb and Munir Sb etc. Most of the readers here very well know the result of the subsequent discussions that happened as well. Inshallah will continue to learn more , being an ahmadi muslim.
Every day is a day of learning.
I seek apology in case any of my lahori brothers was hurted by my words.
With Love
Shabeeb Haneef M
From ikram:
Dear Qadianis – Have you ever wondered as to why the general Muslim community vociferously oppose the Qadianism? It is because your Jamaat broke the Seal of prophethood by alleging HMGA as a prophet that he himself repeatedly denied not only in writing, but also by taking oaths. Has any prophet ever retracted his claim to prohethood? Did a prophet need his son to explain to the world that the prophet himself did not understand his office, so that his prophethood needed to be erected after the demise of the the prophet? How ludicrous to even discuss this.
As to who is the perpetrator of this dogma of HMGA as prophet is none by QK-2 who reined over your Jamaat for more than half a century (1914–1965). He polluted and diluted the message of HMGA almost beyond repair and recognition. That is where the gripe of LAM is. You have a choice to believe what ever you may, but LAM has full right to assert their arguments on your leadership. Your Rabwah Khalifas cannot even pass the test of secular values of merit of personal example, scholarship of religion, piety or sacrifice. They all materially benefited from their office at the expense of common member. They never even held a job to pay for personal expenses or feeding their family while in their office. They walked the earth like an elite. They preserved the blood line for generations that it is now unimaginable to expect a Khalifa outside of their family. What is it that they give you personally except a blessing from a distance. They created fractures within the families of your Jamaat. Can any member of your Jamaat marry outside your own kind? No is the factual answer. Whereas, Muhammad (PBUH, the last Prophet) married outside his religion, with a Jew, a Christian and others. Why not you people? Your Khalifas can be singularly identified in the crowd, whereas, Muhammad (PBUH) was a commoner.
When one talks of Khalifa of a prophet, then the example is that of Abu-Bakr. Nooruddin closely matched those attributes, by being a successor of a Mujaddid, of taking the bait (oath) by being first in line, his personal scholarship, his piety, by being an independent professional and not depending on state funds, on his death not leaving behind even a single rupee for his children and never nominated his son as a successor.
Thereafter, we have example of one elitist after another with self-serving dogmas, rules and methods. QK-2 singularly violated the constitution set forth by HMGA. He made the Senate subservient to the President. Ever heard of that outside the dictatorships? Rabwah khalifas all rode limos rather than walking the camel with servant taking the ride like Omar. Remember, Omar forbade his son to be a candidate for his successor, even though he was fully qualified to be considered. We have example of Usman, the charitable. He gave rather than took from the treasury. We have Ali, who was on the forefront of battles during the Prophet’s life and and when in office himself led the battles and risked his own comfort and life. He wrote and taught. On the contrary we have the born-into-khilafat Khalifas who are the last persons to counter any intellectual attack from outside. They do not even take common question from their own Jamaat audience. Their answers are mostly admonishing in tone without any teaching. Can you personally walk up to your Khalifa now, knock at his door and have an audience? No. Never. And you know it. It is never understandable that all the Khulfa-e-Raashideen on their death bed are poorer than when they took over their office and their kingdom was stronger and more flourishing. The Qadiani Khalifas QK-2 onwards are exactly the opposite. Why? Ever thought about it?
The notion of Zilli Prophet is a facade to prop-up and sustain the dogmas erected by your Khalifas. Concept of being a “zilli” is for personal consumption of a Divine and not for general public. If that was a personal experience of HMGA, then so be it. But you cannot go around preaching it and then hide behind its ambiguity to feed into a cult while creating a dissent in Ummah. If at all, it is no more than experience of Mirage by Prophet Muhammad. Prophet Muhammad never preached Islam by making Mirage a basis and neither is expected of Muslims. If Muhammad can delete his title of “prophet” with his own hand in treaty of Hudaibbiah, why cannot your Khalifas do the same with this “zilli” thing? But they will never do it. They are intelligent, they do not want to lose an empire that fell into their lap. Do the Khalifas personally care about you? No. They are no Muhammad to even ask the wellness of the pet bird of a child, that prophet used to do. They even give you a label of “Ahmadi Muslim.” What is that? Either you are a Muslim or not? What purpose this label of Ahmadi serve in the name of a religion, but dissent.
From Rashid:
@Shabeeb Haneef:
The core belief of Christianity on which its whole structure is constructed is that ‘Jesus is alive in physical form and one day he will return to earth’. Qadianis very easily and proudly knock this out; as they know by knocking out this nonsense belief they can send Christianity down the drain.
Similarly, the core belief of Qadiani-ism on which its whole structure is constructed is that ‘Prophethood did not end with Holy Prophet Muhammad SAWS and thousands of prophets will come after him’. With knocking out of this nonsense belief Qadiani-ism is flushed down the drain.
SH you wrote: “Either they [LAM] will keep on blaming him [QK2] or will come up with a very minute portion of his [QK2] writings and build a huge palace of imagination graciously misinterpreted.”
SH you consider following writings of QK2 as very “minute portion” of his writing:
“I say there shall be thousands of prophets”. “I say even now there can be a prophet”. “Even if someone placed a sword on my neck and ask me to say there cannot be any nabi after Rasul Allah, I will say you’re a liar, and nabi can come after and they will come.” (Anwar-e-Khilafat page 124-127)
I wonder in which imaginary world you’re living. You are not realizing it is because of these and other such writings Muslims hate HMGA; consider him and his followers Kafir; his followers both (Qadianis and innocent bystanders Lahoris) are murdered in Pakistan; the knowledge HMGA brought for guidance of Muslims and for propagation of Islam is not utilized by Muslims!!!! I don’t know what to say about you who is in total denial of reality!!!
SH what an absurd statement you wrote:
“Not even once have I seen the Ahmadiyya Muslim Community seeking refuge by misinterpreting or blaming the words of Lahori leaders, to prove their beliefs.”
Do you honestly believe it is because of words of ‘Lahori leaders’ that today all the curses are hurled at HMGA and his followers are killed on a daily basis in Pakistan???
SH you wrote an ambiguous reply:
“Yes yes yes….Prophets can come in future.”
I DARE YOU to post your identification information (i.e. provide your father name, your Qadiani Jamaat Chanda (financial contribution) number and city [outside Pakistan] in which you live), and honestly, clearly without any ambiguity, say you hold following belief of QK2:
“I say there shall be thousands of prophets”. “I say even now there can be a prophet”. “Even if someone placed a sword on my neck and ask me to say there cannot be any nabi after Rasul Allah, I will say you’re a liar, and nabi can come after and they will come.” (Anwar-e-Khilafat page 124-127).
IF YOU DARE TO DO THIS, I WILL ACCEPT YOU AS HONEST AND BOLD QADIANI FOLLOWER OF QK2.
From Rashid:
Logical Consequence of Qadiani Faith
“I say there shall be thousands of prophets”. “I say even now there can be a prophet”. “Even if someone placed a sword on my neck and ask me to say there cannot be any nabi after Rasul Allah, I will say you’re a liar, and nabi can come after and they will come.” (Anwar-e-Khilafat page 124-127).
Shabeeb Ahmad should pay attention:
”The Bhai religion has continued to grow – in 1990 several individuals converted from Ahmadiyya to the Bahá’í Faith and formed an assembly.”
Ref: Cameron, G.; & Momen, W. (1996). A Basic Bahá’í Chronology. Oxford, UK: George Ronald. p. 467.
In the year 1990
FEB
The first local spiritual assembly compromised entirely of newly enrolled Baha’is of Ahmadiyya background is formed in Chak No. 8P Katta, Pakistan. [BINS219:5]
Source: http://ahmediorg.yuku.com/topic/4231/Journey-from-Ahmadiyya-to-Baha-is-in-1990
From Zahid Aziz:
In the late 1920s or early 1930s Mirza Mahmud Ahmad had to expel some members of his Jamaat who were found out to be secret Bahais and were using the Qadiani Jamaat platform to propagate their own beliefs. One of them had even become either editor or deputy editor of Al-Fazl.
From Shabeeb Haneef:
Assalamualaykum wa Rahmathullahi wa Barakathu.
It is the sunnat of Allah from times immemorial that His true prophets and companions are hated and loathed by everyone immediately. If you want to escape from that, then the easier way is to change your name and live as a non muslim in front of others. Do not say or exhibit that you are a muslim. For safety, you may go one step ahead and worship at Churches or temples. Then nobody will hate or insult or attack you for holding your beliefs but on the contrary you will be respected and loved. And at home, you may be the same. Let your certificate names be the same as well. Why don’t you try that?
Great Idea.!! If this is implemented by all, soon majority of the world (Christians) will also stop their propaganda against Islam. Kudos for you. May your idea be helpful in creating history. This should have been taught to all the prophets and their followers of the past right from the beginning.
How foolish are the Shuhada of the past ranging from prophets/followers of Adam (as) to that of the Promised Messiah (as).(Nauzbillah).?? Had they remained silent about themselves, people then would not have hated and attacked them. What do you say
Regarding people who joined Bahaism.
People have left Islam in the past and that even happens today as well unfortunately. For me people who left Jamaat is the same, whether they joined Bahaism or anything else is the same. I have love for them and I badly want to see them back. You yourself is a member of a group who left Jamaat once. It is a sad reality that few muslims did leave Islam right at its beginning itself. This has been happening and is happening even now as well. You cannot blame Islam for that, But Islam is not a political party to change its beliefs to stop people leaving it. That happens in politics and perhaps may be in your Lahorism
We ahmadis, prefer to be hated and insulted for holding to the truth rather than living a life of a coward who out of fear of the world, forsakes his God. As I stated above, there is always a ‘better’ option to remain aloof and far away from truth. Safe and secluded. And blame others for saying the truth as well.
But the award for the most comical post goes to ….
” I DARE YOU to post your identification information (i.e. provide your father name, your Qadiani Jamaat Chanda (financial contribution) number and city [outside Pakistan] in which you live), and honestly, clearly without any ambiguity, say you hold following belief of QK2: ……
…..IF YOU DARE TO DO THIS, I WILL ACCEPT YOU AS HONEST AND BOLD QADIANI FOLLOWER OF QK2.“
Please dont feel offended when I say this. But frankly speaking it made me laugh for a long time.
I have heard about MCP (Microsoft Certified Professionals) but not about RCA (Rashid Sb Certified Ahmadi).
My dear Rashid Sb, with due respect and love, I would like to humbly state that Holy Quran or Sunnah does not ask me to gain your certification to remain as an ahmadi. Your words proves that you don’t have much of facts with you and hence are now coming for an emotional/personal attack and blackmail. I really dont understand the need of my personal details. The only use I can see is that you may find out the mistakes in my words and paste it somewhere else or mail it among our Jamaat to spread fitna.
But even then, out of charity I am hereby giving you my details.
I am Shabeeb Haneef M, S/O Haneef Ahmad M– a native of Koodali Jamaat, Kerala India. Currently working at Tata Consultancy Services ltd Mumbai. India. (Presently I am a member of Mumbai Jamaat)
[Admin’s note: I have deleted various bio-details included here by Mr Shabeeb Haneef to protect his privacy. I think he supplied them in anger.]
Did the readers notice one thing.? First the Lahori brothers wanted ahmadis to answer their question. When the question was answered,without even making an attempt to reply, they want the details of the person who answered. Allah only knows what they will ask next and what are they upto.
O my dearest Rashid Sb, This kind of tactics does not work in real world. HAATHU BURHANUKUM IN KUNTUM SAADIQEEN (Come with proofs and not personal details :))
Kindly request the unbiased readers here to think about what is happening around.
May Allah guide us all.
Wassalam
With Love
Shabeeb Haneef M
From Rashid:
In Pakistan after massacre of Qadianis in their mosques in May 2010, Qadianis started talking that their Qadiani Khalifa is sitting in safety and comfort of England. He and his Khalifa Khandan members live in safe societies of Europe and Americas. Whereas it is poor Qadianis who are paying the ultimate sacrifices of their lives for Qadiani Khalifa and his family in Pakistan. Qadianis living in Pakistan have legitimate reasons to say:
1-Qadianis have no interaction with Muslims in Pakistan. Qadianis don’t marry them, they don’t marry Qadianis.
2-Qadianis don’t offer Muslims funeral prayers. And Muslims don’t offer Qadianis funeral prayers.
3-On Friday prayers and in other religious and non-religious gatherings Qadianis gather among Qadianis only.
4-For all practical purposes Qadiani community in Pakistan is socially isolated.
5-Qadianis are hurt physically on daily basis. Their honor, lives and properties are in danger on any given day in Pakistan.
6-Qadianis businesses are targeted, and they economically suffer.
7-Qadianis suffer in educational institutions.
Whereas opposite is true for Qadianis living outside Pakistan.
Given the hatred towards Qadianis in Pakistan, even if today Qadianis want to become Muslims to avoid what they go through on daily basis, still Pakistani Muslims do NOT accept them in their ranks and always look down at them and remain suspicious of their intentions of accepting Islam. In this background Pakistani Qadianis have started suggesting to their leaders and Qadiani Khalifa to declare their faith as a new faith like Bahai faith, this way at least their lives, properties, honor and business will be secured, and socially more acceptable to Pakistani Muslims.
Maulana Muhammad Ali sahib words were so prophetic when he warned Mirza Mahmud Ahmad that with your kind of beliefs your followers will be forced to adopt a new faith like the Bahai faith.
From Rashid:
@Shabeeb Haneef:
You still have NOT answered by question in unambiguous words.
Once again:
Do you hold following belief of Qadiani Khalifa 2 Mirza Mahmud Ahmad:
“I say there shall be thousands of prophets”. “I say even now there can be a prophet”. “Even if someone placed a sword on my neck and ask me to say there cannot be any nabi after Rasul Allah, I will say you’re a liar, and nabi can come after and they will come.” (Anwar-e-Khilafat page 124-127).
PLEASE ANSWER YES OR NO.
If you say yes, then please provide me your UNIQUE identification number in Qadiani organization. Give me your unique Chanda Lazam (compulsory annual financial contribution) number. If you dare to provide me this information, then I will send it to Qadiani Khalifa 5 Mirza Masroor Ahmad and ask him two questions:
Question 1: Is Mr. Shabeeb Haneef with such and such identification number is member of your community and your follower?
Question 2: Do you support Mr. Shabeeb Haneef in his belief?
Shabeeb Haneef, if you fail to answer unequivocally ‘yes’ and provide your unique identification number in Qadiani Organization, you will prove to readers you’re a COWARD Qadiani and you don’t honestly believe in your heart what you profess with your tongue, and this you’re doing while living outside Pakistan!!
From ikram:
There was no substantive rebuttal to any of the issues raised above about validity of the office of Rabwah Khilafat, only beating about the bush. As the Chinese proverb goes, the fish rots from its head first, so do the institutions decay from its leadership. Some of the vague comments need a review:
It is the sunnat of Allah from times immemorial that His true prophets and companions are hated and loathed by everyone immediately.
Your immediately is longer than one century. Are you guys keeping track of time? Qadianis need to hire a time keeper, or I must say, a century keeper.
The above line of argument is a defeatist self consolation from the Rabwah Khalifas that they feed their Jamaat members for the failure of mission of HMGA at their hands. Why do you settle for it? Is it not incumbent on you as follower of a “prophet” to wake up from your slumber? A “prophet” who was there as recently as a century ago?
Yes, at the beginning of their ministry the Divines are hated and loathed by everyone. But if they fail in their mission during their life time, then it is not they who failed, but the Appointer failed. And how can the Appointer fail? But, soon the Divines succeed in their own lifetime. Moses PBUH was hated by Egyptians, but succeeding in taking Bani-Israel to land of Canaan. Muhammad PBUH was hated by Makkans, but succeeded like none before and addressed the same Makkans and whole of Arabia in the same Makkah. HMGA, the Mujaddid, passed this test with flying colors, and so does Nooruddin. What happened thereafter was no different than what happened to kingdom of Solomon at the hands of his son, Rehoboam. And now, each one of you Qadianis are personally responsible for feeding into that decline by the dogmas that you believe in and contribute into with your money, time and obeisance of “Hazoor.” Guys, have some self-dignity. Do yourselves a favor, stop digging when you find yourselves in the illogical hole.
If you claim that HMGA was a “prophet” then did either of your Rabwah Khalifas follow his sunnat or the sunnat of Prophet Muhammad? No. Each of your Rabwah khalifas lived like a king and used state treasury as personal account. Factually, it is a personal account because the Khalifa signs the check. Neither Muhammad nor HMGA did that to their “treasury.” None of the “prophets” bought their later wife diamond necklaces from Belgium (QK-3). Did QK-4 leave Rabwah as the last escapee like Muhammad from Makkah or was he the first?
What ever legacy of HMGA is reviving, it is because of efforts of LAM. The main stream Muslims (non-Muslims according to QK-2) are picking up Muhammad Ali’s books and appearing on TV screens – Ghamdi in Pakistan, Black Muslims in America. What ever claim to fame Zakir Naik from India has, all his Vedas quotations are based upon works of Abdul Haq Vidayarti of LAM. From Europe came Pickthall and Asad, deeply influenced by LAM. Etc. etc.
If you want to escape from that, then the easier way is to change your name and live as a non muslim in front of others.
Come on, get out of your fantasy land. It is more than 100 years of the alleged “prophet” passing away and you are still loathing your sorry state. With this much passage of time, it only proves that your Khilafat has failed, that too miserably. For how many more generations you have to suffer the humiliation? Even Bani-Israel, the followers of a true prophet, were rewarded with their kingdom in 40 years. Followers of Prophet Muhammad were rewarded in his own life time and soon after him the Persian and Roman Empires? What about you guys? Where is yours kingdom?
Do not say or exhibit that you are a muslim…
According to QK-2, every one is a non-Muslim but his coffer fillers. Now, you giving your non-Jamaat members the status of Muslim is disrespecting your own doctrine. Who is wrong? You or QK-2?
For safety, you may go one step ahead and worship at Churches or temples…
Factually, if needed a Muslim will pray in a Church. Many a times, churches are rented for Friday congregation in the West. Will you pray in a main stream Muslim mosque? No. Never. For the mere fact that your Rabwah Khalifas will excommunicate you. Remember the “prophet” said his prayers in Jamiah Masjid Dehli. Why this disparity of “prophet” and the followers? Obviously, the followers are more loyal than the king himself. Who cares for the sunnat of the “prophet.”
How foolish are the Shuhada of the past ranging from prophets/followers of Adam (as) to that of the Promised Messiah (as).(Nauzbillah).?? Had they remained silent about themselves, people then would not have hated and attacked them. What do you say?
This is a classical duping from Rabwah pulpit. They elevate the victims and foot soldiers of a dogma as Shuhada and unflinchingly provide more dogmas to create more Shuhada as cannon fodder. Someone has to stop this madness. How many Shuhada are there from Khandan-e-Khilafat? Silence? Why?
If you want to see a living Shaheed, then go no farther than Sadr-ud-din (2nd head of LAM), who evacuated the main LAM center against the rioting mobs of 1953, and stood alone in the front terrace of the Jamia Masjid with the declaration that “I will face them alone” and he kept standing there alone. This is a living example of Tauheed that leads from from front and with a personal example.
It was the job assignment of Prophet Muhammad to minimize the Shuhada by any reasonable means, be it by accepting the degrading Peace treaty of Hudaibbiah and by striking off this own title of the prophet from the document, only in the interest of peace. Do Rabwah Khalifas even come close? Are the Khalifas answerable to anyone for the lives lost of their Jamaat? Their statements about Shuhada are only a measured response, whereas, HMGA’s heartfelt sorrow is still reverberating for the Shaheeds of Khost. Even one life lost is too many.
THE SOLUTION TO ABOVE RIGMAROLE IS IN THE VERSE BELOW:
33:40. Muhammad is not the father of any of your men, but he is the Messenger of Allah and the Seal of the prophets. And Allah is ever Knower of all things
[The Holy Quran – Muhammad Ali, Ed. Zahid Aziz]
From Shabeeb Haneef:
Assalamualaikum Wa Rahmathullahi Wa Barakatuhu.
It seems that Mr Rashid is so adamant to disagree that he even is not interested to read my posts COMPLETELY.
I had answered your question as “Yes” the very first day itself. I had given the explanation for the same as well. Any sane human being who has read our discussion can understand that. But you never even tried to give any reply for that. All you did was to use all your energy to insult Ahmadis and the Ahmadiyya Khalifas. O my dear brother…if you truly believe that we are in the wrong path and you are in the right, then prove it and don’t simply fool our innocent readers with your CV collection and mailing idea.
This proves that you do not have anything to substantiate your arguments and beliefs. So you resort to confuse the readers by simply saying chit chat and wasteful declarations and also few self devised solutions for world problems. Even today you posted something else that is not related to the topic on which this discussion was started.
You may confuse others or may be you want to self satisfy your ego. This wont work dear Rashid Sb. I request you once again….Haathu burhanakum In Kuntum Sadiqeen….Provide your evidence if you are truthful. And stop your tactic of address collection and mailing.
Please be informed that the words of a 23 year old guy wont create any kind of discord or stir in this divine Jamaat. So I humbly request you to come forward with your proofs rather than asking me for my address proof 🙂 and show us the right path that you claim to be in.
Secondly, I did post all my details here yesterday, but the moderator removed them. This included even my blood group and marital status as well. And he did mention that he has removed them for some reasons which he stated there as it is not . But it seems that you were not at all paying attention to what I posted. (You may contact the moderator of this site and get all my details. He is the one who deleted it.)
May Allah Guide Us All..
With Love
Shabeeb Haneef M
From Zahid Aziz:
Shabeeb Haneef writes: “Secondly, I did post all my details here yesterday, but the moderator removed them. This included even my blood group and marital status as well.”
As readers can see, such details are irrelevant (unless Dr Rashid Jahangiri is going to operate on you surgically!) Also, I removed them to protect your privacy. A person can still be a known person, and not an anonymous poster, while their privacy is protected.
From Shabeeb Haneef:
To Zahid Aziz Sb,
It would be wrong to say that I gave full of irrelevant details. If you are truthful, please come forward and say that all my personal details that I gave was irrelevant. You cant. It did contain the data that Jahangiri Sb asked as well.
I understand that you removed my details because it is against the spirit of this blog. Such requests for personal data, if entertained, may force people not to express their views openly in this blog and that destroys the entire purpose of such blogs. So I do not blame you for deleting them being the moderator. Yes, that is the right thing to do. Meanwhile members like Jahangiri Sb must also understand this fact and act accordingly.
__________________________________________________________________
To Ikram Sb.
You have raised some valid points that needs to be addressed indeed. But I would request that we should shift the discussion beginning from your last post to a new thread so that it does not get mixed with this thread.
This thread began with the simple question.
Are Qadiani Jamaat Friends in violation of teachings of their “Musleh-Mauood”?
I have answered. Now I request the moderator to close this thread in case no more discussion is required on that and start a new one where we can discuss the question of Can Prophets come after Holy Prophet (sa)? –the Islamic perspective. Inshallah we can discuss in detail dear Ikram Sb
Wassalam
With Love
Shabeeb Haneef M
From Rashid:
Shifting grounds of Qadiani Faith
Qadiani Khalifa 2 Mirza Mahmud Ahmad wrote:
“I say there shall be thousands of prophets”. “I say even now there can be a prophet”. “Even if someone placed a sword on my neck and ask me to say there cannot be any nabi after Rasul Allah, I will say you’re a liar, and nabi can come after and they will come.” (Anwar-e-Khilafat page 124-127).
By the time Qadiani Khalifa 4 Mirza Tahir Ahmad inherited the office, concept of belief in Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad as “nabi” (prophet) as must required tenet of Islam was etched in brains of QK2 followers. But this posed a great danger to Qadiani-Khilafat and family business of QK2. To protect this family enterprise QK4 announced that NO MORE NEW NABI or a lesser person a MUJJADDID can come in future. (Reference: QK4 Friday Sermon, August 27, 1993).
Shabeeb Haneef because of his naivety, and lack of knowledge perhaps due to his young age, does not realize that he is going against the ‘Current Doctrine’ of Qadiani Faith. And this can land him into trouble with his Qadiani leaders.
In early days of internet forums in around year 2000 (when Sahbeeb Haneef had not stepped into his teens) Qadianis indulged into religious discussions with Lahore Ahmadiyya Movement members. This gave chance to young Qadianis to get educated about the nonsense statements of their Qadiani elders. QK4 realized the problem. He had the genuine fear that young Qadianis will come to know what Qadiani Khalifas and his assistants had been hiding for last over 50 years. QK4 reprimanded his followers and strictly enforced his orders through his organization’s office holders. Further, QK4 said, “I am Khalifa-e-Waqat, it is my responsibility to debate with Lahoris and I will do this”. Of course QK4 NEVER got into debates with LAM members, as it would have further exposed the nonsense in Qadiani Faith. None the less few young Qadianis continued to discuss matters of faith and claims of HMGA etc with LAM members, in private emails. Even if some of them did not join or accepted the LAM interpretation, they became STAUNCH OPPONENTS of Qadiani-Khilafat. One such example on internet is of Akbar Chaudhry (he was webmaster and administrator of FIRST Qadiani forum the defunct http://www.ahmadiyya.com based in Canada).
Shabeeb Haneef:
If you provide me your UNIQUE IDENTIFICATION NUMBER in Qadiani Organization (this could be your Chanda-Lazam number), I will send an email to QK5 and his top lieutenants and ask them if they support you. It is highly unlikely that they will reply me, but there is very likely chance that QK5 will contact you through your local Qadiani leaders and REPRIMAND you. Firstly you’re violating the current Qadiani doctrine and secondly you’re getting into discussions with Lahoris. A big crime in Qadiani faith. This is the reason Qadianis (including my own nephew) will write to me in private but will avoid coming on this blog. The moment you’re reprimanded you will wonder why Qadiani leaders are stopping you from propagating what you’re are supposed to propagate and believe. That moment will start a change in you. That’s my goal.
Internet is not only exposing the nonsense in Christianity but is also exposing the nonsense in Mullah Version of Islam and Qadiani version of Islam.
From Usman:
As this discussion has gotten a bit convoluted, I think it is pertinent to point a flaw in the basis of the subsequent argument put forth by Mr. Shabeeb Haneef.
He said:
(1)
“Have you ever noticed the fact that the senior lahori members always try to prove the truthfulness of LAM by deliberately bringing in Hazrath Musleh Maud(ra). Either they will keep on blaming him or will come up with a very minute portion of his writings and build a huge palace of imagination graciously misinterpreted.
Something similar happened here as well. “
(2)
“I always wonder about this. Not even once have I seen the Ahmadiyya Muslim Community seeking refuge by misinterpreting or blaming the words of Lahori leaders, to prove their beliefs. Our beliefs has its root in Holy Quran and Holy Sunnah but not in the words of any Lahori leaders.”
First of all the first statement is quite absurd that senior Lahori members “always” try to prove the LAM truthfulness by bringing the “Hazrath Musleh Maud(ra).” An incorrect and ridiculously generalized assumption. The “truthfulness” of LAM is based securely in the Quran, Hadith, and the interpretation of the same by HMGA, and in HMGA’s own writings as well. There is a 100 year history of LAM expounding upon its beliefs using precisely these sources. The reason for brining in the QK’s on occassion is to point out how these gentlemen have contradicted HMGA and the Quran. Anyone who has read Maulana Muhammad Ali’s writings on this issue cannot help but notice the pain and urgency flowing through the words; clearly revealing the sole intention to preserve the beautiful message of the Promised Messiah that is being corrupted by QK’s. Now it is up to the AMC brothers to debate on the issue (QK’s going against Quran and HMGA), or make the presence of the issue an issue in itself!
And of course the 2nd statement is also incorrect in spirit if not in letter. I know for a fact through personal experience that members of the AMC have openly and actively attacked Maulana Muhammad Ali and Khawaja Kamaluddin and have used excerpts from their writings to “prove” their allegations. And my interactions with AMC have been few and far between, other members here with more experience can probably attest my observation.
From Rashid:
Mirza Mahmud Ahmad’s Private Secretary.
Qadiani Jamaat Khalifa 2 Mirza Mahmud Ahmad had private secretary in Qadian. His name was Mahfoozal Haq Ilmi. He also served as editor or assistant editor of Qadiani Jamaat Urdu organ Al-Fazal.
In Qadian he used to keep a long thick beard. He converted to Bahai Faith and started publishing his magazine for the propagation of Bahai faith. It was named Kokab-e-Hind (Star of India).
In 1956 after his forced eviction from Rabwah on orders of QK-2, marhoom Abdul Manan Omar sahib (son Maulana Noor ud Din sahib), he was employed as editor of Encyclopedia of Islam (Urdu), published by Punjab University, Lahore. In this capacity he worked there 18 years.
Abdul Manan Omar sahib wrote a very comprehensive article on Bahai Faith, published under his name in Encyclopedia of Islam. As part of his research he wrote 500 letters to Bahai leaders, authors, and scholars around the world asking for their literature. One day Abdul Manan Omar sahib was sitting in his office; a clean shaven man came, and asked Abdul Manan Omar sahib if he recognized him. He (AMO) replied that not from your face but from your voice. This man was former Qadiani Mahfoozal Haq Ilmi.
In summer of 1974 when anti-ahmadiyya riots were at their peak, AMO sahib was at his home. Doorbell rang and he went outside. He saw about half dozen men with beards. Among them was leader of Alhe-Hadith Jamaat Ihsan Ilahi Zaheer. AMO sahib recognized him, but II Zaheer stepped forward and introduced himself. He in a saluting gesture he offered his salam and said, “I read your article on Bahai Faith in encyclopedia. I came to say Salam to knowledge” and with that he left.
From Rashid:
@Ikram:
For your and others information:
Ahmadiyya fatwa muzzles wedding bells
Admin’s comment: Would their reaction be any different at all if the girl had been a non-Ahmadi Muslim?
From Rashid:
@Admin:
“Would their reaction be any different at all if the girl had been a non-Ahmadi Muslim?”
Yes, provided the groom belonged to Qadiani Khalifa family. Qadiani Khalifa would have accepted even if a girl had been a HINDU.
Qadiani Khalifa 2 Mirza Mahmud Ahmad’s younger brother Mirza Bashid Ahmad (the Qadianis ‘Qamar-ul-Anbiyya’ [Moon of Prophets]) had only one son M.M.Ahmad. He was top head of Qadiani Jamaat in USA. He did not have any biological child, but had adopted son. This son married a HINDU girl in USA. Nobody said anything. M.M.Ahmad died as top leader of Qadianis in USA. No one kicked out either the son, or father or any other family member. Rules are different for Qadiani Khalifa family members. BTW this is one of the characteristics of a cult where there are different rules for ruling class and general subservient masses.
Some historical info:
M.M. Ahmad wife is real niece of marhoom Abdul Manan Omar sahib (son of Maulana Noor ud Din sahib). Per Abdul Manan Omar sahib, Mirza Bashir Ahmad KNEW that QK 2 daughter who became wife of MM Ahmad could not bear children [I am not posting further details on this blog], so MBA was resistant to the marriage proposal. QK2 in his one speech talked about this proposal and MBA reluctance. That was enough to knockout MBA, as he could foresee his future ostracized and spitted out, if QK2 turns against him. QK2 made sure that no one is born among progeny of MBA, who could one day lay claim to office of Qadiani Khalifa, challenging his (QK2) sons/ progeny. It is different thing that at time of election of current QK 5, paternal grandchildren of QK 2 were publically known to have low moral character that disqualified them for the office.
From ikram:
Incidences like the one pointed out by Rashid clearly point to a cultist behavior of Qadiani Jamaat leadership. In order to preserve their stranglehold on the rank and file of their Jamaat their leadership even ignores the Quranic injunctions:
Bear in mind that Qadiani Jamaat is quite rightfully at the forefront of declaring Rama and Krishna as prophets of Allah with Vedas/Gita as revealed Book(s). Thus, Hindus do not cut the exception in the above verse.
What in the world will be more effective for global peace and tolerance, interfaith harmony and spread of Islam than sharing one’s food and tying the knot with full support by the community, a.k.a. as marriage ceremony and the institution of marriage. Take this incidence of ‘Ahmadiyya fatwa muzzles wedding bells‘ as one more practical example for Qadiani members that they are being taken for a ride by their Khalifa and his proxies, who are more interested in their money and loyalty than what the Message of Quran stands for.
From Rashid Jahangiri:
NEW PROPHET IN QADIANI JAMAAT
Dear Qadiani Friends,
I am sure you believe your Qadiani Khalifa 2 Mirza Mahmud Ahmad, whom you believe as "Musleh Mahud" wrote everything under "divine" guidance.
To remind you in his book he wrote:
QK 2 in his famous book ‘Anwar-e-Khilafat’ from page 124 to 127 has written following statements:
Quote:
“I say there shall be thousands of prophets”
“I say even now there can be a prophet”
“Even if someone placed a sword on my neck and ask me to say there cannot be any nabi after Rasul Allah, I will say you’re a liar, and nabi can come after and they will come.”
End quote.
I want to congratulate you on advent of NEW PROPHET IN YOUR JAMAAT. Now please be a good follower of QK2 and accept the new claimant. Please listen to his claim on YouTube:
New Prophet In Ahmadiyyat For All Mankind!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TUBLboFg9hs
From Rashid Jahangiri:
QK5 Mirza Masroor Ahmad close friend left Qadiani Organization.
I don't know if the news published in Express News about QK5 friend Engineer Nasir Mahmud has left Qadiani Organization. Anyways here is the news:
http://www.siasat.pk/forum/showthread.php?217416-مرزا-مسرور-کے-قریبی-ساتھی-کا-قبول-اسلام