Scan of reference required from ‘Badr’
From: Honest Inquirer Saleem
Salam! I need some help.
On October 9, 1910, a delegation of Ahmadi scholars went on a tour of Uttar Pradesh and this delegation was headed by Hadhrat Maulavi Syed Sarwar Shah and included people like Hadhrat Mufti Muhammad Sadiq, Khawaja Kamal-ud-Din, and Maulavi Sadruddin. When the delegation arrived in Lucknow, it had a meeting with Maulana Shibli No‘amaani, who made a special reference to Maulana Hakeem Noor-ud-Deen, who, at that time, was the head of Ahmadiyya Jama‘at. Maulana Shibli No‘amaani said, “Maulavi Hakeem Noor-ud-Deen is a giant among scholars and I have a keen desire to meet him and, as a matter of fact, I had decided to leave for Qadian but the visit was put off due to an accident.” (AlBadr, October 27, 1910)
This is a very interesting statement by Shibli Nomani calling Maulana Noor ud Deen(RA) a giant among scholars. However when I showed this to a Deobandi he asked for a scan. I tried looking in the badr archives saved from aaiil.org but october 27 1910 and october 22 1910 are literally missing which is extremely strange since this website has quoted it before:
https://www.ahmadiyya.org/hmnd/nurdin-urdu.htm#1
Here is the conversation between shibli nomani and muhammad sadiq above which is taken from al badr october 27 1910:https://www.ahmadiyya.org/qadis/sadiq.htm
Since I could not furnish proof he ended up saying that Noor-ud-Deen(RA) and other ahmadi scholars were nobodies.
Could you please attach the al badr october 27 1910 and october 22 1910 scans as a pdf or an image so it can not be lost to time. JazakAllah and I appreciate the preservation of history that is currently going on through this site.
From Zahid Aziz:
You have previously sent us enquiries under different names and I have replied to you directly by e-mail but you have never responded.
Given below is the scan that you require from Badr, 27 October 1910, p. 10, column 2, bottom half.
I notice that in your first paragraph you write: “…Hadhrat Maulavi Syed Sarwar Shah and included people like Hadhrat Mufti Muhammad Sadiq, Khawaja Kamal-ud-Din, and Maulavi Sadruddin….”
So while the Qadiani Jamaat elders are described by you as “Hadhrat”, our elders according to you don’t deserve this title. If this is your opinion, why don’t you ask that Jamaat to provide you with the scans that you require?
From Honest Inquirer:
I didn't realize you were replying to me by Email so that's why I haven't been responding. My email is weird, sometimes throws thing in spam
Regarding the Hadhrat stuff, I was just quoting this https://www.alislam.org/library/books/hakeem-noor-ud-deen.pdf
see page 196
From Zahid Aziz:
Please look also at pp. 132-133 of the book that you have referred me to. The same incident is mentioned and the translation there is more accurate in saying that Shibli "spoke very highly of" the knowledge and learning of Maulana Nur-ud-Din. This is what the Urdu original says, as posted by me. It does not say that Shibli called him "a giant among scholars".
An interesting point about how the incident is reported on p. 132 is that after giving Shibli's reply on the use of the word 'nabi' for Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad it does not report what Mufti Muhammad Sadiq said in response to Shibli on that point. Mufti Muhammad Sadiq responded:
Have I satisfied your request by providing the scan that you required?
From Zahid Aziz:
Please let me know if I have satisfied your request by providing the scan that you required.
From Zahid Aziz:
People who are doing religious work such as "Honest Enquirer Saleem" (who also posts as "Mujahidekabir") should have at least some good manners as taught by their religious beliefs. They ought at least to reply to say if we have resolved their queries.
I can only guess that he is a member of the Qadiani Jamaat who couldn’t get any answers from his own Jamaat, so he contacted us. Now he cannot bring himself to say that Lahoris have resolved his query which 200 million Qadianis and their Khalifa could not do.
From Honest Inquirer::
Salaam
Zahid sahib, there is no reason to get yourself worked up. I told you before I didn't get a notification for your message on my email. In fact when I just searched "200 million" in my email I don't even get a result. I didn't intend to be rude. Just interested in research, In my view there are a lot of critical references about early Ahmadiyya history and praise from Sunnis which needs to be preserved. I feel that due to the 1974-1984 laws a lot of references have become hard to find. For example, Hayat-e-Noor-ud-Deen by Mufti Muhammad Sadiq is out of print. Fatawa Ahmadiyya, a critical book for Ahmadis, is just flat out lost!!!
I did end up later getting a scan of the Shibli Badr ref from Ahmadi Qadiani group, I just found it strange how their are missing pages in your long format pages of Badr.
Recently I am interested in the topic of whether Ahmadis are Hanafis or Ahlul Hadith. This is a very hotly contested topic among Sunnis with them engaging in books replying to one another and full on lectures even to this day. Unfortunately a lot of them quote Fatawa Ahmadiyya which is in fact lost.
From Zahid Aziz:
I don’t understand why you searched for “200 million” in your e-mail. I never used this term in replying to you. I only used it in my last comment.
My e-mails to your address threefalsegods@gmail.com were on the following dates this year: 10 March, 11 March, 13 March and 6 April. In the second case (11 March) I also replied on this blog, providing the references you asked for. Please see this post.
You say: “I did end up later getting a scan of the Shibli Badr ref from Ahmadi Qadiani group” ! But I provided it here in this very conversation in response to your request, and I also made some comments on it which would have been useful to you, and asked you if I had satisfied your request. You had no need to “end up later” to get it from the Qadianis (unless, of course, you think that any reply a Lahori gives needs to be confirmed by the Qadianis before you accept it).