The Lahore Ahmadiyya Movement Blog

Islamic Knight is willing to accept my statement in the post above, but as usual he doesn’t feel the least regret that he was factually wrong, he doesn’t reflect that he could be similarly wrong in his other assertions, but he deflects it to another point.

He says:
[quote]
By the rules laid down by MGAQ, if muslims call u Kafir, u cannot pray behind them in any circumstance.  So why are your people even going to Mecca for Hajj.  All the imams there have declared you people as KAFIR of the first kind the second kind and every other type in existence.

I agree, they performed the Hajj, but did they ask those imam’s as to what they thought about MGAQ?  Probabbly not!  Thats the point that you are overlooking. 
[unquote]

He is referring here to Hazrat Mirza sahib’s advice that an Ahmadi should ask the non-Ahmadi imam what he thinks of Mirza sahib to decide if he can pray behind them.

Before answering this, I note that his comments indicate that he has also left the religion of Islam (after leaving the Qadiani Jamaat; he says he is USA born in a Pakistani Qadiani family). He writes: ” I am a consientious objector.” If so, then he himself is a kafir and non-Muslim according to the very same Ulama who call us kafir!

He ridicules the saying of the Holy Prophet Muhammad that if a Muslim calls another kafir, it reflects back on the caller. He asks me in which book of hadith it is. I told him, all Muslim Ulama accept this hadith. Let him ask them where it is. Let them do the reference finding work which he has been getting me to do!

When he writes above “kafir of the first kind, second kind, every kind …” he is poking fun at the whole of Islamic jurisprudence and all those great jurists and ulama who wrote about the concept of primary and secondary kufr. Ask the Ulama if they haven’t heard of the principle of Islamic law: Al-kufru sanfaan. That’s just two simple words!

As to his question about did our members ask the imams at the hajj before praying what they thought of Hazrat Mirza sahib, and then pray only if they called him a Muslim there are several points to be noted here.

The vast majority of Muslims from Pakistan and India who go to the hajj belong to the non-Wahhabi Ahl-i Sunna, who have been long declaring Saudi Arab imams as kafir. Even before HMGA came on the scene, these hanafi Sunnis used to throw Wahhabis out of mosques and court cases in India (going up to London) between sunnis and wahhabis about who can pray in whose mosque were held long before Ahmadis came into existence.

Conversely, the Wahhabis declare these Muslims of Indo-Pak as kafir. Their Urdu translation of the Quran by Ahmad Raza Khan is banned in Saudi Arabia. Often these Muslims have been deported by SA when they have tried to practise certain rituals at the Holy Prophet’s tomb which they do at shrines in Indo-Pak.

If all these fatwas of kufr were taken into account, hardly any Muslims would be able to perform the hajj. Saudi rulers have always adopted the approach (as one of their kings put it in about 1950 specifically in connection with Ahmadis) that anyone who regards the hajj as their religious obligation in Islam cannot be prevented from performing the hajj.

As we are allowed to go to perform hajj on the above basis, which is a de facto recognition of us as Muslims, we don’t need to question individual imams. Aren’t there other Muslims performing the hajj who are bitter religious or political opponents of Wahhabis, but are there for a religious obligation?

Also, Hazrat Mirza sahib’s advice above is not a rigid rule, since Hazrat Maulana Nur-ud-Din suggested other ways of determining if prayer behind a certain imam is allowed to Ahmadis.

When Islamic Knight claimed that “the entire muslim ummah calls ahmadis as kafirs”, I pointed out this was not the case and certain Muslim regarded and regard us as Muslims.

He replied: “I have no idea why muslim x wouldnt call you people Kafir. Let me speak to him for a day and give him some crucial data and lets see if his opinion changes.”

Islamic Knight is another one of our critics suffering from an inflated sense of their own grandeur. He claims that he can change the opinion of any Muslim who believes that Ahmadis are not kafir! Yes, so many of opponents send e-mails, send comments to this blog, claiming “I am the one”, “I am the one” who has got the unbeatable arguments which no one in a hundred years has come across.

I think some anti-Ahmadiyya ulama should be asked to determine if Islamic Knight is Muslim or kafir, and if he is in their view an even worse kafir than we are!

Let him try going for the hajj and claiming there that he is a conscientious objector to any form of military service for Muslims, and he is there to promote his ideas!

Islamic Knight has responded on the ahmedi.org forum and sent me several e-mails containing the same responses. For our readers’ convenience I give here the link to that forum.

I don’t respond in other forums, and here I will make just one comment about his most serious allegation.

Regarding a letter by Hazrat Mirza sahib to Dr Abdul Hakim Khan, in which it is stated “…every person to whom my call is conveyed and who does not accept me is not a Muslim…”, Islamic Knight or Rationalist writes:

“3.a. Again, Muhammad Ali totally denied that MGAQ ever wrote this letter, just like MGAQ. ”

In his e-mail to me he says:

“Muhamad Ali was such a liar that he denied that MGAQ ever wrote thsoe statements….”

In another e-mail to me, he writes that HMGA having written this letter:

“denied ever making this statement” and he quotes him from Haqiqatul Wahy(1907) p. 178 allegedly to this effect. He adds: “MGA must have forgot what he wrote in that letter to Dr. Hakeem Khan, a year after writing the letter he totally denied it.”

Then he says that Mirza Mahmud Ahmad discovered the letter and mentioned it in his 1911 article.

I wish to clarify his allegation before answering it.

Is he saying that Maulana Muhammad Ali, in the book whose link he gives (Heresy in Islam), denied that Hazrat Mirza sahib “ever wrote those words”?

Is he saying that Hazrat Mirza sahib, in Haqiqat-ul-Wahy, never mentioned that he wrote the words of that letter?

He also writes, regarding “some hadith by Muhammad (saw) that states that if a muslim calls another true muslim a Kafir, then he himself becomes a KAFIR”, that:

“2.b. I also asked Zahid for a reference to this alleged hadith of Muhammad (saw) I even told Zahid that this tradition better be in Bukhari or muslim, if this tradition was in Kanzul-ummul he would never hear the last of it from me.”

Why is he asking me for a reference? He claims to have been studying Ahmadiyyat for ten years, to know the inns and outs of it. My reply is: You very well know the reference, you know I am not referring to Kanzul-ummal, you have read our books containing the reference.

Finally, I thank him for clearing up what he meant by being a “conscientious objector”. He says he refuses to fight for the United States but will be “the first to grab a sword” to fight for Muslims, many of whom are at present claiming to be fighting a jihad against the United States. This topic is not relevant to our discussion, but I feel that if he is sincere in his views he should make his stand absolutely clear to the people of the US, namely, that at the first opportunity available he will fight a jihad by arms for Muslims against the US. If he doesn’t make it clear, then he is a hypocrite and a conspirator.