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June 13th, 2011

Qadiani Khalifa V Friday, June 10, 2011 sermon on subject of Mujaddid.

Submitted by Rashid Jahangiri.


Qadiani Khalifa 2 Mirza Mahmud Ahmad has written in his books that thousands of prophets WILL COME after Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad sahib, till the Day of Judgment.

In his Friday, June 10, 2011 sermon Qadiani Khalifa 5 Mirza Masroor Ahmad said that current millennium is the last millennium; and HMGA was sent as Mujjaddid for the whole millennium. QK 5 builds the case that after HMGA revival of Islam will ONLY be done by Qadiani Khalifas. He further says that Qadiani Khalifa status is superior to status of Mujjaddid.

Opponents of HMGA in order to nullify HMGA claim (that Mujjaddid which is ‘mamur-min-Allah’ (appointee of Allah) has to himself make claim of appointment) say Mujjaddid does not make claim in his life, rather people after his death give him the status of Mujjaddid.

QK 5 uses this argument of anti-HMGA people to support his point that Qadiani Khalifas could also be a Mujjaddid whether he claims or does not claim to be a Mujjaddid in future centuries.

QK 5 gave this sermon after some Qadiani student of Tajdeed-e-Nau asked him question about next/ future Mujjaddid based on Hadith of Holy Prophet Muhammad SAWS. From his sermon it was clear that QK 5 did not like the question and equated such query as form of weakness in faith and sign of conspiracy against Qadiani Khilafat system. He blamed elders in such homes who talk about new Mujjaddid or as a mischief when they intentionally ask question like these through the young pupil in disguise of seeking knowledge. Of course QK 5 conveniently ignored to mention that young Qadianis get these questions on Internet and most probably on websites of Lahore Ahmadiyya Movement.

I hope some other pupil can ask QK 5 that when he says in future only Qadiani Khalifas will revive Islam, then by such statements does he mean that QK 2 was WRONG when he asserted that thousands of Prophets can come in future centuries?

It will be nice if head of Lahore Ahmadiyya Movement Dr. Pasha sahib can also give a Friday Khutaba in near future so that young Qadianis can hear/ read both sides arguments, and make an informed decision to whom to believe. It is quite clear young Qadianis in Europe and North America do surf and read LAM literature on internet.

Link to QK 5 sermon:
http://www.alislam.org/friday-sermon/2011-06-10.html

143 Responses to “Qadiani Khalifa V Friday, June 10, 2011 sermon on subject of Mujaddid.”

  1. June 13th, 2011 at 1:42 pm
    From Zahid Aziz:

    Please see my article entitled Will Mujaddids come in future? Mirza Tahir Ahmad says “No”, Promised Messiah says “Yes”, which I wrote in response to a khutba by the late Mirza Tahir Ahmad sahib in 1993:

    http://www.ahmadiyya.org/qadis/94-6.htm

    Also see the following answer I gave to a respected member of the Qadiani Jamaat in 2005:

    http://www.ahmadiyya.org/qadis/khilafat-speech-may2005-letter-add.htm


  2. June 14th, 2011 at 2:58 am
    From Fazil Jamal:

    Friends,

    In the aftermath of the latest Friday Sermon of Qadiani Khalifa V Mirza Masroor Ahmad Sahib on June 10, 2011 on the future of Mujaddidiyat, there is an interesting response from Munir Ahmad Azim Sahib of Mauritius who claims to be the Mujaddid of the new Century. (For claiming to receive Divine revelations from Allah, he was expelled from the Q Jamaat in 2000).

    Munir Sahib has brilliantly dismantled the arguments of the Q Khalifa from a Qur’anic perspective. His analysis has the added dimension of a critique within the framework of the existing Q theology. The document is available the following:

    http://www.jamaat-ul-sahih-al-islam.com/mujaddid.pdf


  3.  
    After watching the Friday sermon link above, I am surprised that in Qadiani Jamaat it is immoral to bring up a question or ask for clarification about a Hadith of Prophet Muhammad. It is the same basic Hadith which was the basis of HMGA’s claims. Such queries are suppressed and young seekers of knowledge and their parents en-mass are admonished from the highest office in Jamaat i.e. by the mouth of Khalifa himself and that too from Friday pulpit. Astaghfirullah
     
    Seems asking of this Hadith from Khalifa is in equivalence to the joke of personal barber (ironically aka Khalifa) of former Pakistani dictator Zia ul haq. Before, each haircut he would ask the dictator the same question as to when will the dictator hold his promised general elections. One day, the dictator got annoyed and asked the barber why he repeated his question? The barber replied “Sir, this question makes your hair stand-on-end, and it is easier to clip them.” Obviously, there is something about the Hadith in which there is prophecy of advent of Mujaddid(s) in each Islamic century that perturbs the Khalifa. In this day and age, it seems so conceited to advocate for one’s own office, rather than the purpose of the office, which he hardly touched upon.
     
    QK5 using Machiavellian principles, displaces Prophet Muhammad from center stage for the ongoing (using his words) last thousand years of this world, replaces him with HMGA, and using some glue words claims the chain of Khilafat as the only remaining spiritual thread of Islam. He also makes the claim which implies that all future Mujaddids, if any, have to be subservient to the Khilafat of Qadian – wink; wink; – Jamaat beware, all future claimants to the designation of Mujaddid have to be rejected because logically such God’s appointees will refute the Qadiani dogma to begin with. A classical Machiavellian preemptive strike. Mr. Masroor you know your game.


  4. June 14th, 2011 at 10:42 am
    From Fazil Jamal:

    “Qadiani Khalifa 2 Mirza Mahmud Ahmad has written in his books that thousands of prophets WILL COME after Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad sahib, till the Day of Judgment”.

    Could the writer or webmaster or someone else here provide the reference for the info?

    i eagerly look forward to see it! (i have my own battles to wage with Q friends!)


  5. June 14th, 2011 at 7:16 pm
    From Zahid Aziz:

    See the book Anwar-i Khilafat, which is a compilation of his speeches at the 1915 annual gathering. It is accessible from the following webpage as book number 5:

    http://www.alislam.org/urdu/au/?j=3

    Read from the middle of p. 124 of the printed book to p. 126 (pages 49-51 of the pdf file). He says that a thousand prophets can come, and that as the Holy Prophet was of a high rank, those prophets coming after him must also be of a high rank.

    He says that a person can become a prophet by following the Holy Prophet Muhammad. There is no mention of the role of khilafat in this. So it would imply that some person other than the Qadiani khalifa of the time (who might be a member of the Jamaat or may be even a non-Ahmadi) could become a prophet and then require the khilafia to accept him!


  6. Followup on Dr. Zahid Aziz:
    “He says that a person can become a prophet by following the Holy Prophet Muhammad.”

    And this is exactly repeated by current Qadiani Khalifa 5 Mirza Masroor Ahmad, in his letter on his letterhead dated May 21, 2011 to heads of Qadiani’s women organization ‘Lajna’.
    Only discrepancy is in QK5 title. He used title ‘Khalifa-tul-Maseeh’ where as he should have used ‘Khalifa-tul-Nabi’. Looks like QK5 is intentionally giving double messages to his followers and intends to make the Schizophrenic (Psychotic).

    Please see the scanned image of QK5 letter on following anti-HMGA website:
    http://ahmediorg.yuku.com/topic/3711/Prophethood-of-MGA-now-open-secret

     


  7. Nasir Ahmad Sultani is recent claimant of Mujjaddid of 15th Islamic Hijra century in Qadiani Jamaat. This brings total LIVING claimants of office of Mujjaddid to FOUR (Munir in Mauritius, Zafarullah in Mauritius, Jamba in Germany, and Nasir Ahmad Sultani in Pakistan) in Qadiani Jamaat. This new claimant claims to agree with Lahore Ahmadiyya Movement beliefs. And has invited LAM to become his followers. Well, Qadiani Khalifa 5 in his Friday Sermon of June 10, 2011 has preemptively knocked out any chance of winning followers by this new claimant among Qadianis. So, what is he up to? Does he want LAM to accept him? Following is his website. Please take a look and give your feedback. Thanks.
    http://al-ahmadiyyat.com/
     
       


  8. June 15th, 2011 at 12:36 am
    From Abid Aziz:

    It has been a long-time effort of Qadiani Khalifas to be considered as Mujaddid without making a formal claim to the same effect. Following words from Rashid’s first post in this thread elaborate the point

    “QK 5 uses this argument of anti-HMGA people to support his point that Qadiani Khalifas could also be a Mujjaddid whether he claims or does not claim to be a Mujjaddid in future centuries”

    Several years ago while having discussions with a Qadiani Murabi about this I asked him if you believe that Mirza Tahir Ahmad is the Mujaddid then why he does not make a claim of being a Mujaddid. His answer was same that it is not necessary for a Mujaddid to make a claim. Other people can declare him as a Mujaddid.

    In my opinion they are avoiding a formal claim to avoid the punishment promised in Holy Quran for a person who falsely claims to be a Mamur Min Allah (An oppointee of Allah). They are aware that they can not escape the punishment if they claim to be a Mamur Min Allah. This is why they always say that it is not necessary for a Mujaddid to make a claim. This is like playing tricks with Allah. I do not know how long they can continue to do that.

    The claim of Mujaddids of all previous centuries may not be available on record. For the sake of argument we can accept that those Mujaddids did not even know that they were the Mujaddid of the century. But Qadiani Khalifa is alive and claims that his Khilafat is not only equal to Mujaddid but also superior to it. He must be saying this on the basis of his knowledge. The source of this knowledge is either divine (by way of revelation) or by way of reasoning (deducing from religious literature). Qadiani Khalifa should it it clear that on what basis he is claiming to be a Mujaddid. In either case he should make it clear and make a claim to be a Mujaddid. He knows that he is a Mujaddid then why he is leaving it to others to declare him as Mujaddid.

    Mirza Mehmood Ahmad also used the same trick for becoming Musleh Mahood. He led his jammat to believe that he is the Musleh Mahood without making a former claim. He knew he cannot escape punishment from Allah if he falesly claims to be a Musleh Mahood. Later under intense pressure he claimed to be Musleh Mahood by way of having a long dream. He got punished by Allah for this fabrication.

    Leading people to believe that a person is Mujaddid (or even a substitute of Mujaddid) is also a fabrication. Even worldly laws punish a person who falsely leads someone to believe that he has a position that he actually does not have. Will Allah the Almighty the most wise will leave these khalifas unpunished? I think NOT.


  9. June 15th, 2011 at 11:57 am
    From Mohammed Iqbal:

    I wish HMGA had held on to his earlier stand that it was not his job to point out the earlier Mujaddids and that question should be directed at HP who prophesied about them. Later on he got a table of earlier Mujaddids published. In some cases (one at least) the designated Mujaddid was not even born at the beginning of that century! Certain other persons, like Imam Ghazzali who was included in the list, had labelled eminent Scientists like Avicenna and Farabi as kaffirs! This is very much akin to what the Mullah does today.We now flound the name of such scientists to the West to remind them of our glory days. Also in his works he had quoted a number of Hadiths, which were not to be found in any compilation. So Ghazzali is to a modern mind unacceptable, even if  held in high esteem by the orthodox.


  10. June 15th, 2011 at 7:58 pm
    From Zahid Aziz:

    With respect, you are mistaken. Hazrat Mirza sahib never published a table of of mujaddids. The table you are referring to was compiled by a Muslim scholar a short time before him. Shah Waliullah (who was mujaddid two centuries before him) also published a list.

    Even in his last major book, Haqiqat-ul-Wahy, Hazrat Mirza sahib said to his opponents: If you can name all the prophets, I will name all the mujaddids.

    Hazrat Mirza certainly recognised Sayyid Ahmad Barelvi as mujaddid immediately before him, as Indian Muslims widely did. He was born in the same year as his century hijra began. In fact, Hazrat Mirza regarded him as the like of John the Baptist (Yahya Zakariyya), as he himself was the like of Jesus.

    Ghazali is widely recognised by Muslims, and even non-Muslim scholars, as one of the greatest ever Muslims of all time.


  11. Nasir Ahmad Sultani
     
    He claims to be Mujaddid of 15th Islamic Hijra century. So far I just had cursory look on his website. Without knowing about him, his life, his thoughts, his writings, and mission, I would say: He can NOT be a Mujaddid.

    My reason is simple: He does NOT qualify to be a Mujaddid.
    My reason behind my reason: He came in Pakistan.
    For Mujaddid to complete his mission, he first has to physically survive and be alive.
    In current Pakistani environment Sultani sahib may NOT live long. If Mullah-Mafia comes to know about his existence, I am afraid he will be eliminated. Few years a go a person who even did not claim to be Mujaddid, but rumors about him spread that he made claim of divine appointment, and he was murdered while in jail as protective measure.  
     
    Even HMGA appreciated that he was living in a country ruled by non-Muslim and just rulers. He was only able to continue his mission, as he was able to physically live.
    In my opinion Mujaddid won’t come in present day Pakistan, Saudi Arabia and perhaps Iran. I would also include Afghanistan.


  12. Ok.Then what is your openion about Munir A Azim of Mouritius and his claims?


  13. @Miraj:
     
    No one among Qadianis, who has spent years in Qadiani jamaat listening and believing what Qadiani Khalifas has been saying, can all of a sudden become a Mujaddid.
     
    Here is my reason: Intelligent Muslims who may even not be Mamur-min-Allah themselves have sight to “see”, “smell” and “feel” with in moments of meeting someone who claims to be a “mamur-min-Allah” (e.g. Qadiani Khalifas) and can figure out genuineness of his claim.
     
    Example: Maulana Noor Ud Din when first time went to Qadian to look/ meet HMGA, while his carriage (tonga) hardly stopped and he stepped off of it and asked to see HMGA. Someone pointed out to a person sitting on a cot, who was “Mirza sahib”. Maulana Noor ud Din took a look and decided to return the very moment. At that moment someone again realized that he wants to meet Mirza Ghulam Ahmad the ‘massitar’ (nick name for HMGA as he use to spend most of his time in Mosque).  So Maulana was directed to HMGA house. There Maulana saw HMGA coming down his house stairs. Maulana before talking to HMGA asked his carriage driver to leave, and he (Maulana) decided to stay in Qadian.
     
    So, a person who has spent his life looking for a one chance in his life to shake hand with “hazoor” (Qadiani Khalifa) can NOT become Mamur-min-Allah one morning.
     
    Bottom line: No one among Qadianis can become Mujaddid one morning when they get out of their bed. I think Mujjaddid will be some one among general Muslims. I personally would give more credit to Javed Ahmad Ghamidi if he makes any such claim over Qadiani claimants.


  14. June 17th, 2011 at 7:34 pm
    From Zahid Aziz:

    A Mujaddid needs to show that he has done such work for Islam and brought such knowledge of Islam to prominence in the world that it is beyond the capacity of the great scholarly ulama of the time to do. A Mujaddid is not accepted merely on grounds of his making a claim.

    I understand this claimant says that the beliefs of the Lahori Ahmadis are correct. He should then be satisfied that we Lahoris are continuing our work! A mujaddid should show us some new way in which we should conduct our work in future. Or, he should show that he can inspire the hearts of our members to work harder for our cause.

    Lahore Ahmadis have seen great figures such as Maulana Muhammad Ali and Maulana Abdul Haq Vidyarthi, about whom some general Muslims said that if they claimed to be mujaddids they would accept them! When such great persons are still not mujaddids, it shows how highly exalted a mujaddid must be.


  15. Follow-up on Dr. Zahid Aziz post:

    “A Mujaddid needs to show that he has done such work for Islam and brought such knowledge of Islam to prominence in the world that it is beyond the capacity of the great scholarly ulama of the time to do. A Mujaddid is not accepted merely on grounds of his making a claim.”

    HMGA had established his credentials of service to Islam, before making claim of Mujjaddid of 14th Islamic Hijra century, by his publication of Barahin-e-Ahmadiyya, for which he had earned high praises even from those who later turned against him.
     
     


  16. June 18th, 2011 at 2:44 pm
    From Mohammed Iqbal:

    So, Pakistan has become an inhospitable terrain for Mujaddids, huh? God, it seems, has been inordinately fond of the sub-continent, for He has raised His last four Mujaddids there.But what have these reformers to do with the rest of the Ummah spread across South East Asia, Arab lands, North Africa etc..etc…?
    Of course, the responsibility for their ignorance of HMGA can be laid squarely at the door of his son KQ2. But do names like Sirhindi, Dehlawi and Berelwi mean anything to them? The vast majority of them might not even have heard of these names, let alone be influenced by  their Thajdeed. Did God decide that they were better Muslims when compared to the sub-continentals that they didn’t need full fledged reformers? Even when he wanted to reform them, He sent them pseudo-Mujaddids like Sheikh Moh’d bin Abdel Wahhab who had no patience with the subtle arts of persuasion. signs and arguments. Instead he used force and the temporal power of the House of Saud to push in his reforms. Little wonder then that the man and his mission has becomes synonymous, for the West, with Islamic Terror.

    Others can take heart now, for the new reformer is going to be from among them, since Pakistan has become No-Mujaddid Zone. And who is in a better position to announce this to the world than a “fellow-Pakistani”?


  17. I have come across an article by poster Fazil Jamal sahib ‘A Great Sign for the Ahmadis of the World’. Here is the link for those who are interested:
    http://www.jamaat-ul-sahih-al-islam.com/malayalam2011/malayalam_index_files/art_mubsignapr11.htm


  18. June 18th, 2011 at 6:21 pm
    From Zahid Aziz:

    It is a fact that contributions to knowledge of Islam came much more from the Indian subcontinent in the past four centuries than Arab countries. Shah Waliullah Dehlawi is highly regarded all over the Muslim world and well known in the Arab world. Many of his books were written in Arabic, obviously not for the Indian masses. In 1975 or so, when I was at the University of Manchester (UK), there was a Arab student from Jordan doing research there on Shah Waliullah, because of the esteem in which he is held in Arab countries. To read Shah Waliullah’s Persian books, he was trying to obtain English translations from Pakistan.

    Western orientalists have written books about Mujaddid Alif Sani and Shah Waliullah.


  19. @Muhammad Iqbal
    An Afghani friend of  mine has Holy Quran translation in Persian by Shah Waliullah. So, his influence at least has corssed the Indian subcontinental boundaries.


  20. June 18th, 2011 at 9:26 pm
    From Zahid Aziz:

    Another point to note is that Shah Waliullah went to Makka and Madina and received religious education as well as spiritual enlightenment there. He was raised to the position of mujaddid there, not in India. He wrote a book entitled Fuyuz-ul-Haramain about the spiritual experiences he had while there, which should be read by all those who raise objections against Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad’s visions.

    Apologies for the lengthy extract below  from http://www.sufizikr.org/?p=1471, but those interested may wish to read it. I have put certain words in bold to darw attention to them.

    Shah Wali-u Allah’s journey to Hijaaz in October 24 1730 / 8 Rabi-as-Thaani 1143 proved a turning point in his career. It was the time when the Indian subcontinent was undergoing a deep crisis consequent upon the declining fortunes of the Mughal empire. Under such conditions there was growing an indifference towards religion. The sectarian conflicts had become the order of the day. Sufism had generated and various evils had crept into the society as a result of the practices of the false Sufis. The sensitive mind of the Shah was deeply moved by the deplorable situation prevailing in India and his journey to Hijaaz had much to do with this preoccupation of the scholar. In Hijaaz, the Shah stayed for about two years, performed Hajj twice at Makkah and also spent sometime at the Prophet’s tomb in Madinah. Besides acquainting himself with the general condition of the Muslim world during his stay in Hijaaz, the Shah also received lessons on the Qur’aan and the Hadith and thereby was able to attain considerable guidance in the spiritual matters. He read from the scholars of repute, Muatta of Imaam Maalik with Shaykh Wafadullah and Bukhari of Imaam Bukhari with Shaykh Taj-al-Din Hanafi, the Mufti (juri consultant) of Makkah. At Madinah, the Shah attended to Shaykh Ibrahim Kurdi, an eminent traditionist and sufi, and revised all famous books on Hadith under his guidance. Shaykh Abu Tahir, another great theologian in Madinah, also guided the Shah in the science of Hadith.

    It can hardly be denied that Shah Wali-u Allah’s sojourn to Hijaaz proved to be a landmark in his spiritual development. He himself mentions many spiritual blessings and experiences in His Fuyuz al-Haramayn. He received them in a series of visions at the precincts of the holy Ka’abah and the holy tomb of Rasulullah (Sallallaahu Alayhi Wasallam). In these visions include the task of the revival of Islam entrusted to the Shah by the grandsons of the prophet, the intelligibility of the most controversial problems of ontological versus phenomenological monism, clearance of doubts on the controversial issues relating to solidarity and development of the Muslim institutions. A.D. Muztar has eloquently described this enlightenment of Shah Wali-u Allah in the following words:

    The prophet cleared his doubts concerning them in a series of visions. For example, the prophet (Sallallaahu Alayhi Wasallam) told Shah Wali-u Allah.

    1. The order of succession of the Khulafa-e-Raashideen (the four immediate successors of the prophet) had taken place under the will and pleasure of God. It was best suited to the interests of Muslim community and so far as the personal excellence of these four companions of the prophet was concerned, all of them were blessed with qualities and stations special to each of them. The contentions over the attributive supremacy of Ali on the one hand and of Abu Bakr and Umar (Shaykhayn) on the other, were just useless and needless. Such a controversy was apt to create hatred and disharmony among the Muslims.

    2. All the mystic orders, such as (Chishti, Naqshabandi, Qadiri, Suhrawardi, etc.) were equally acceptable to God. Nor was the prophet of God especially inclined towards any particular order. One may follow any or all of them with the only proviso that they were followed for the sake of God Almighty.

    3. None of the schools of Jurists, Maaliki, Hanafi, Shaaf’ee and Hanbali, excelled the other. All of them were fundamentally the same. Therefore, all were equal in the eyes of the Prophet … It was further revealed to him that in conveying his message to the nation and share their responsibilities; he benign and compassionate in his speeches and writings; and pray for what was good for the people in their world life and the life hereafter.

    After the Shah’s return to Delhi, he addressed himself to the task of bringing about the revival of Islamic sciences for the general good of Muslims


  21. June 21st, 2011 at 1:31 pm
    From Fazil Jamal:

    Good to hear about the visions of Shah Waliullah and the spiritual verities he came to understand in Arabia. And that the impact of the Mujaddidin  who were raised in India went beyond its shores. 

    If you recall, Mirza Masroor Ahmad Sahib  in his Friday Sermon of June 10th paraded his ignorance by confining the Mujaddidin of the past to their place of birth/country alone.


  22. June 22nd, 2011 at 1:27 am
    From Fazil Jamal:

    I was reading Dr.Zahid Aziz’ review of a May 2005 sermon of QK5 relating to “ever-lasting Khilafat”in the Q Jamaat. 

    In the review, he mentions about an article written by the late Mirza Bashir Ahmad Sahib speculating about the decline of Q Khilafat after the 4th one.

    Did someone put it on any website? Where to find the article in English? 

    Thanks.


  23. June 22nd, 2011 at 10:10 am
    From Zaki Ghulam:

    Mr. Rashid’s opinions on the Q claimants to Mujaddidiyat are interesting. 

    Without examining the claims of Nasir Sahib, he pronounced the judgement on the principle that a resident Pakistani cannot be a Mujaddid now. Yet, he props up another Pakistani candidate for the same post at the end of his remarks! What protocol is this, Rashid Sahib?

    Other claimants cannot be entertained whether they are in Europe or Africa, becuase they are former Qadianis. Now, I can understand your reservations as LAM belief-that LAM is the real inheritor of HMGA and not the Qs. 

    HMGA predicted that those who come after him will not only be from his spiritual progeny, but also his shadows. So, why is the LAM leaving this great blessing from among yourselves?

    If it is not Qs, the new Mujaddid has to be from LAM. And not from some general Muslims, excluding the Ahmadis, right? How can somebody who cant even recognize the great work of HMGA be the Mujaddid after his age? NO, to my mind that is the bottom line. 


  24. Dear Zaki Ghulam sahib,
     
    Perhaps you’re not aware of Javed Ahmad Ghamdi sahib:
     
    1-     He considers HMGA as Mujaddid of 14th Islamic Hijra Century, at least in private meetings with LAM members.
     
    2-     He has Islamic scholarly published works, to prove his credentials that he is just not an illiterate person, who one day rolls out of bed and announces he is Mujaddid of 15th Islamic Hijra century, if he decides to announce make any such announcement.
     
    3-     He has already left Pakistan for last many months and is living in exile in Indonesia after Government of Pakistan (GoP) determined beyond doubt that his life is under threat, and Mullah Mafia will murder him. He was sent to Indonesia, after keeping in house guard provided by GoP at a secret location in Pakistan, by GoP.
     
    4-     I never said that I have, or I will accept him as Mujadid of 15th Hijra Century. I only said, if he does make such claim, then I’m more inclined to pay attention to him, over any former Qadiani Murrabi claimant. Because of three reasons:
     
    i-       A person who has been bending over backwards all his life to kiss “Hazoor” Qadiani Khalifa’s hands; and dying for chance to drink and eat his “tabaruk” (left over beverages, and food of Qadiani Khalifa).
    ii-      A person who consider Qadiani Khalifa 2 Mirza Mahmud Ahmad as “Musleh Mahud”.
    iii-    A person who even consider Qadiani Khalifa 2 a decent man, who was accused of extreme immorality by his biological daughters and sons. And QK2 NEVER allowed an inquiry commission to exonerate him.
     
    My question to you:
    Why a person who has never been a former Qadiani all his life, is not a formal member of LAM, but considers HMGA a Mujaddid of 14th Hijra century, and has credentials to prove his Islamic scholarship can not become Mujaddid of 15th Islamic century?


  25. After the 100 years of Ahmadiyyat, more than 6 groups have originated, one arguing their points and challenge the other by telling that “I’m right – You are wrong”.
    How can Ahmadiyyat (all HMGA believers) show the right way to all the people if they are in different sectors and opinions?
    How many people recognize HMGA as Mahdi, Messiah and Reformer of 14th century even after 100 years??
    Is this due to the lack of knowledge on part of the believers or the leaders ???
    All the spiritual leaders are conveying that “Allah is with us” .But they are not ready to loose their positions, followers, money ,name and fame in the name of ALLAH !!!
    In my opinion  people are not willing to change or re-arrange their spiritual thoughts that is why most of the people in the world don’t understand Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmed(as) and his claims. 100 years gone, new claimants have arrived and they are also not recoganised !!!.
    History is repeating…


  26. @Miraj:
     
    “After the 100 years of Ahmadiyyat, more than 6 groups have originated, one arguing their points and challenge the other by telling that “I’m right – You are wrong”.”
     
    LAM does NOT challenge Qadianis or others, it only points what in their (LAM) is right. And I can prove to you that Muslim world in over whelming number accepting, agreeing, adopting LAM interpretations, without realizing it and without filling LAM membership forms.  
     
    “How can Ahmadiyyat (all HMGA believers) show the right way to all the people if they are in different sectors and opinions?”
     
    HMGA mission was NOT to from his own party or sect with sole purpose to have his independent followers and then to increase his sect members. Muslims of the world in over whelming majority have already adopted many of HMGA teachings, with out announcing that they consider him as Mujjaddid of 14th Hijra. This is fulfillment of HMGA mission.
     
    “How many people recognize HMGA as Mahdi, Messiah and Reformer of 14th century even after 100 years??”
     
    HMGA mission was NOT that Muslim must recognize him as Mahdi, Messiah and Reformer of 14th century. A small percentage of Muslims recognize Shah Walli-Ullah as Reformer of 12th century. But whole world, including non-Muslims, follow his mission by translating Holy Quran in almost every language of the world.
     
    “Is this due to the lack of knowledge on part of the believers or the leaders ???
    All the spiritual leaders are conveying that “Allah is with us” .But they are not ready to loose their positions, followers, money ,name and fame in the name of ALLAH !!!”
     
    It is good to have difference of opinion as long as it is based on honesty, and solely for
    Sake of Allah.
     
    “In my opinion  people are not willing to change or re-arrange their spiritual thoughts that is why most of the people in the world don’t understand Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmed(as) and his claims. 100 years gone, new claimants have arrived and they are also not recoganised !!!.”
     
    I would say, Muslims have started, especially after 9/11 and “powerful attacks” (as prophesized by HMGA) to change and re-arrange their spiritual thoughts. As long as Muslims do this, that is more than enough. Muslims do not have to make announcements
    that they “understand” HMGA. Once you figure out what was HMGA real mission you will see that his mission is being fulfilled.
     
    History is repeating…
    Yes, history repeats, but with every repetition there is some correction.


  27. June 23rd, 2011 at 7:53 pm
    From Fazil Jamal:

    @Rashid: 

    ” ii-      A person who consider Qadiani Khalifa 2 Mirza Mahmud Ahmad as “Musleh Mahud”.

    I think among all the Q candidates only Munir Ahmad Azim Sahib of Mauritius fit the bill. Because all the others follow the LAM perspective on the issue.

    There is a major recent development on the issue.

    On June 17, 2011 Munir Sahib has openly challenged another Mujaddid claimant Abdul Gaffer Janbah Sahib of Germany (who believes that he is the one and only “Musleh Maoud” and Khalifa 2 was a fake claimant) for a Mubahala duel.
    Details are in my blog: 

    http://sahih-al-islam.blogspot.com/2011/06/mubahala-challenge-to-janbah-sahib.html
     


  28. June 24th, 2011 at 5:30 am
    From Zaki Ghulam:

    Dear Rashid Sahib, Thank you for those points on Javed Ahmad Ghamdi sahib. If he is in exile, then, your principle on resident Pakistanis stands on an equal footing.
    But from a Qur’anic perspective, your principle and the analysis on Q claimants needs to be further nuanced. A Musa (as) can certainly grow up in the palace of the Pharoah. As an innocent child or young man, he can bend over backwards all his life to kiss the reigning monarch’s hands; dying for chance to drink and eat his “tabaruk”. So much so that the Pharoah may declare him of being ungrateful to him later on. But Musa (as) said: “I did do it then, and I was of the erring”. These mistakes and even the commission of a murder did not prevent Allah from raising him as an Elect of His. Muhammad (sa) was raised among the “unlettered people” as “a Prophet among themselves”.
    As for fake claimants, His words are decisive: If you attributes revelations to Him without being an actual recipient, you (the false claimant) will meet a decisive end. You cannot escape the Divine wrath even if you are in the United States (and not just in Pakistan or other ‘Islamic’ Mulla-Mafia countries. On the other hand, you can even be protected under extremely hostile circumstances as well, just like a Musa or HMGA in India.
    So, country, knowledge-base and previous history are important, but not so important for a servant of Allah. For, Allah does what He wills and once He takes charge of him, Allah will teach him even if he is an illiterate.
    As for your question, yes, I believe even without being a formal member of the Q Jamaat or the LAM, or even after being formally expelled from either group, Allah may raise a Muslim who recognizes the stature of HMGA to be the Mujaddid of the 15th century.
    In fact, being expelled by his own people for no other reason than being a claimant to Divine revelations will be an additional ground to take a claim seriously, provided the spiritual life of the claimant denotes a strong commitment of Unity of God. HMGA changed his opinions on many matters over a period of time. So, I wouldn’t be worried even if the claimant is mistaken on some non-Shariah matters.


  29. @Zaki Ghulam sahib:

    You used words such as ‘innocent child or young man’ for Musa AS. So, please pay attention to understand he never bent over backwards to kiss “khalifa-e-Waqat” and eat his ‘tabaruk’. Where as all Qadiani claimaints of Mujaddid of 14th century kept kissing their “khalifa-e-Waqat” and eating his ‘tabaruk’ from QK2 to Qk4 and they turned against their Qk5 and in Jamba case against QK4 and QK5 AFTER they developed opposition on some NON RELIGIOUS issues. 

    You wrote ‘If you attributes revelations to Him without being an actual recipient, you (the false claimant) will meet a decisive end.’

    You are again wrongly applying it here. There are many among LAM like many among General Muslims who have received revelations (Ilham). But non of these made claim of being Mujaddid. Because to make claim of Mujaddid one has to receive divine revelation that he is appointed Mamur-min-Allah (Mujaddid). And if such claimaint makes a FALSE CLAIM then he is punished by Allah SWT and the liar dies with in 23 years of making such claim. Just the way Qadiani Khalifa 2 Mirza Mahmud Ahmad died with in 23 years (actually at 21 year) after making a FALSE CLAIM, and his jugular vein was severed. I am convinced that if any or all current qadiani claimaints of mujaddids make claim after stating that Allah SWT made him/them ‘mamur-min-Allah’ based on such and such revelation he/all will die a horrible death like Qadiani Khalifa2.


  30. Standards of a Divine have been set by Muhammad (PBUH), both before and after his appointment.  As a commoner, he had already established himself as Sadiq (Truthful) and Amin (Trustworthy). As a prophet besides his virtuous and successful life which is an open book, Quran too validates his credentials:

    6:20. Those whom We have given this perfect Book recognise him (-the Prophet Muhammad) as they recognise their own sons…

    9:128. (People!) certainly, there has come to you a Messenger from among yourselves; your sufferings tell hard upon him; he is ardently desirous of your (welfare) and (he is) very loving and merciful to the believers.

    10:16. …I had indeed lived among you a (whole) lifetime before this (claim to Prophethood. Was not my truthfulness undisputed?). Will you not then refrain (from opposing me)?

    HMGA too fulfilled the above standards, initially with his personal character and his landmark work of Braheen-e-Ahmadiyya and later with lifelong mission both by what he said, did and wrote. So did Abdul Qadir Jilani and other Mujaddids.

    Any Mujaddids of fifteenth century have to meet or beat the above standards, both of man and Quran.

    Rashid is right on the money when he writes in this thread to refute any claimant “who one day rolls out of bed and announces he is Mujaddid” without matching the above standards in his pre-Mujaddid life.

    However, @Rashid I remember Ghamdi Sahib refuting the concept of Ilham (revelation) after Muhammad (PBUH) in one of the youtube link series that you posted sometime ago about him where he equates HMGA to a sufi.

    In summary, the burden is on the claimant rather than the follower of a Mujaddid. Except the issue of Ilham, where I might be incorrect, Ghamdi Sahib does deserve a pause if he makes a claim.


  31. June 24th, 2011 at 2:36 pm
    From Fazil Jamal:

    In the prelude to the recent Mubahala Challenge by Munir Ahmad Sahib to Janbah Sahib, there was an intense debate between the two groups. The issue was the Qur’anic punishment of false claimants of divine revelations and whether it was fulfilled in the case of Khalifa 2.  

    Both groups agreed that Khalifa 2 lived for a period of 22 years and 6 months under the Islamic Calendar after making the claim. Harping on some writings of HMGA, Janbah Sahib clearly suggests that the “rule” of 23 years is not met in the case of Khalifa 2. While harping on his own perception on the matter and some other writings of HMGA, Munir Sahib argues that Khalifa 2 lived long enough after making the claim so as not to be accused of being a false claimant.

    From his website, Janbah Sahib appears to have been claiming a divine mission for the last 17 years and has announced that they are preparing for victory in a few years from now. Taking up the Mubahala Challenge of Munir Ahmad Sahib seems to a golden opportunity for him to establish his credentials, if any, in a decisive way.


  32. June 24th, 2011 at 3:34 pm
    From Zahid Aziz:

    For the last 7 or 8 years of his life, Mirza Mahmud Ahmad sahib was mentally and physically unable to carry out the duties of khalifa or Muslih Mauood, or even the functions of a normal, responsible human being. He ceased to hold these offices long before his death.

    In 1947, just three years after the Muslih Mauood claim, he suffered the calamity of losing Qadian. He had to leave Qadian for the same reason as millions of other Muslims had to leave the Indian side of the Punjab to come to Pakistan. So it wasn’t because of being persecuted as an Ahmadi that he had to leave Qadian. If it is described as “hijrat” or sacrifice for being a Muslim, it was no different at all from the “hijrat” of millions of non-Ahmadis from India to Pakistan.


  33. June 24th, 2011 at 5:05 pm
    From Fazil Jamal:

    What is the LAM perspective on “Prophecy Musleh Maoud” of 20 February 1886?

    Mujaddid claimant Janbah Sahib argues that the Prophecy is about the Mujaddid of the 15th Century.

    Do you agree with the idea, even if you have reservations about, or outrightly reject his personal claims in this regard?


  34. June 25th, 2011 at 5:46 am
    From Zahid Aziz:

    Any “perspective” we have as to the fulfilment of this prophecy would be a conjecture. Before the coming of the Promised Messiah and Mahdi, Muslims had fixed an image in their minds of what he would be like and what he would do. When he appeared in contradiction of this image, they largely rejected him. Therein lies the danger of speculating beforehand.

    It is our conjecture that Muslih Mauood shall appear when the present era in the history of Islam, which is encapsulated in the term “Ahmadiyya”, and is similar to the Makkan period of the life of the Holy Prophet Muhammad, comes to an end and a phase begins which is like the Madinan period of his life.

    In the “Ahmadiyya” period, Islam’s mission is to show its spiritual and intellectual power to the world, strengthen faith in hearts and conquer minds by arguments, without possessing any material or political power in the world (i.e. the jamali aspect of Islam or its inner beauty).

    A time would come when the guidance of Islam in the political, governmental and economic fields would be needed by the world, and it would show the triumph of its teachings in this way as well, i.e. the jalali or outwardly glorious aspect of Islam. A mujaddid appearing at such a time of need would be like Hazrat Umar Bin Abdul Aziz, who was a ruler as well.


  35. or like Moses


  36. June 25th, 2011 at 11:36 am
    From Fazil Jamal:

    That is a sobering thought to have in a world of utter certainties about the coming of an Elect of Allah. Allah does what He will. 

    It is precisely this principle that the Fourth Khalifa Mirza Tahir Ahmad Sahib forgot. When someone approached him, taking the name of Allah that he receives divine revelations, he was summarily expelled from the Qadiani Jamaat. For the Khalifa had already developed a fixed image that only one of their kind- “Khalifa”- can be favoured by Allah for this divine blessing.

    Yes, the expulsion of Munir Ahmad Sahib was precisely on the ground of this pertinent religious issue and not on any other personal ground. Munir Sahib has now written a book on the issue, reflecting on the circumstances of his expulsion and the original documents relating to the episode are now available in public. Those interested may check it:

    http://www.jamaat-ul-sahih-al-islam.com/haqq.pdf


  37. June 25th, 2011 at 3:20 pm
    From Mohammed Iqbal:

    @Zahid Sahib,

    What about the sign of Musleh Mauood that he will increase three into four?
    Q jamat members used to give different interpretation to this. One was that there were three holy cities for “Islam”,i.e., Makkah,Madinah and Qadian. QK2 has added Rabwah to the list, making them four. Another speculation was that he was instrumental in converting Mirza Sultan Ahmed to Ahmadiyya making the number of Ahmadi progeny of  HMGA into four? Do these interpretations hold water?


  38. June 25th, 2011 at 7:20 pm
    From Zahid Aziz:

    But when Rabwah was added to the list, it replaced Qadian, so that’s still three! And if they include defunct, previously-flourishing cities, then there had existed dozens of great centres of Islam before long before Qadian, such as Damascus, Baghdad, Ajmer, etc.

    Mirza Sultan Ahmad was already friendly with Ahmadis for years past. Even before the Split he wrote an article in the Urdu Review of Religions (February 1914) which was a review of Maulana Nur-ud-Din’s biography. In this long review he highly praises the qualities of Maulana Nur-ud-Din and is deeply impressed by both the book and his own personal contact with the Maulana. He writes that the Maulana’s beliefs as given in this book are no more different from the beliefs of the great scholars of Islam than the differences which have occurred between those scholars themselves.

    The same year, when after the Split Maulana Sadr-ud-Din left for England in May to relieve Khwaja Kamal-ud-Din, Mirza Sultan Ahmad accompanied him in the journey. On the way back, he returned with Khwaja Kamal-ud-Din and the two of them performed hajj together in October 1914, before coming back to India. So he was under Ahmadiyya influence already.

    Regarding issue of Muslih Mauood, you can read three khutbas by Maulana Muhammad Ali delivered just after Mirza Mahmud Ahmad made this claim in 1944. Here is the link: http://www.ahmadiyya.org/qadis/mali-4feb44.htm

    He says in the first khutba: “If the Mian sahib [Mirza Mahmud Ahmad] asked for my advice, I would tell him to put forward the argument that there are already three claimants to the title of Muslih Mau‘ud and he is the one who makes these three into four.”


  39. The prophecy of the muslih mau’ud is amazing. Imagine making a claim in a tiny village of India that a son will be born who not only will be pious and blessed, but his fame will spread thoughout the world. It came true. The Hindu enemies of the Promised Messiah who said his sons will be corrupted were proved wrong.


  40. June 26th, 2011 at 6:37 am
    From Zahid Aziz:

    For earlier views of Mirza Mahmud Ahmad on this prophecy, please see: http://www.ahmadiyya.org/qadis/mm/tashhiz.htm


  41. June 26th, 2011 at 7:11 am
    From Fazil Jamal:

    To argue that Khalifa 2 met with the divine punishment for claiming to fulfill the prophecy regarding “Musleh Maoud”, the Mujaddid claimant Janbah Sahib has introduced a “Jugular vein-cutting” theory.

    For a review of it, please see:

    http://sahih-al-islam.blogspot.com/2011/05/in-defence-of-hadhrat-khalifa-sani-ra.html


  42. June 26th, 2011 at 11:29 am
    From Mohammed Iqbal:

    @Zahid Sahib,

    Thanks for the link on the KQ 5′s earlier view. I hadn’t read it before. Q Ahmadies usually quote an Ilham of HMGA which says “He will be from thine own seeds” which they say precludes the possibility of a later descendant or a spiritual son.


  43. @Muhammad Iqbal:

    Increasing of 3 into 4
     
    I loved another explanation. I think the “best” explanation that Qadiani Khalifa 2 use to give and now his followers feel embarrassed about it was:
    Musleh Mahud will increase number of his wives from 3 to 4.
    So when ever his one wife died a natural death or was poisoned to death on QK2 wish, he use to immediately increase his wives number from 3 to 4. And this he did at least 3 times.
    Neither of other explanations sounds convincing as they occurred only once, nor they sound “fun”.
     


  44. June 26th, 2011 at 8:25 pm
    From Zahid Aziz:

    Iqbal sahib, please read what the Promised Messiah writes in “Ayk Ghalati Ka Izala” about the prophecies which said that the Mahdi would be descendant of the Holy Prophet. See the Qadiani Jamaat translation at

    http://www.alislam.org/library/browse/book/A_Misconception_Removed/

    pages 13 and 14. He writes that the words “he shall be from me” mean that he will derive his spiritual existence from the Holy Prophet. On page 15 he writes that “people who think in physical terms” consider the Mahdi to be a descendant of Hasan, Husain or Abbas, but the Holy Prophet meant that the Mahdi would be his heir “just like a son”.


  45. June 27th, 2011 at 7:24 am
    From Fazil Jamal:

    Sometime back, a question was raised in the thread about the Mujaddid claims of Munir Ahmad Azim Sahib of Mauritius and certain observations were made. 

    Munir Sahib has now responded to some of them. Those interested may check it:  

    http://www.jamaat-ul-sahih-al-islam.com/speech_24jun11.pdf


  46. i ve read the above file but it does not sound intelligent or lack baseerat which differentiates between ppl who have it and the ones who don’t.

    i would like to hear what you are told by Him not what had been prophesied. 


  47. what does muslih mau’ud mean? does Mirza sahib only prophesied about him or like mahdi, there are prophecies about him too?


  48. @Fazil Jamal
    I am famous (at least in Mauritius — BTW anyone can point me on the map where is this promised land?)
     
    Munir Azim in my posts I said that Mujaddid of 15th century can not come among Qadianis and especially among Qadiani Murrabis who all their lives have been bending over their backs to kiss the “blessed” hands of Qadiani Khalifa 2 and his successor Khalifas and looking for opportunities to eat and drink their leftovers; and holding beliefs that Qadiani Khalifa 2 Mirza Mahmud Ahmad was Musleh  Mahud, despite when dozens of people (including his children, close relatives, staunch followers, friends and newspapers editors) accused him of acts of extreme forms of immorality; which he never dared to challenge and exonerate himself from these charges in a public inquiry by inquiry commission members appointed by himself.
     
    Munir ji, you’re NOT my particular addressee. I meant ALL Qadiani Murrabis including the current 4 claimants of Mujaddiyat (including Zafarulla, Jamba, and Nasir). By the way do you know how many dozens of Qadiani Murrabis before you have claimed their “divine” appointment to office of Mujaddid? Someone years ago someone published a list of such Qadiani claimants. It would be nice if someone can update that list and add at least the current 4 claimants to that list.
     
    I loved it:
    “Therefore, it is people like Dr. Rashid Jahangiri who are hell-bent in deviating people from the true teachings of Islam (from the right path), distorting it to suit their needs….”
     
    Munir ji, you have already started acting like the “majestic” Qadiani Khulifa.
     
    Dude, where is the beef?
     
    Dude, if you want to convince me that you’re Mujaddid then at least produce some literature and show some service to Islam. I am not asking you to show more scholarly works and extreme service to Islam like Maulana Muhammad Ali, and Khawaja Kamal ud Din and other elders of Lahore Ahmadiyya Movement. If I ask that, then it will be too much work for you. Just show me some scholarly works more than my father in-law Professor Chaudhry Ghulam Rasool and service to Islam more than my late father Qazi Abdul Rashid Esq!
     
    Munir ji, please prove your credentials before expecting me to answer your diatribe.
     


  49. June 28th, 2011 at 8:34 pm
    From Zahid Aziz:

    Here is the first page  of an article by Dr Basharat Ahmad from Paigham Sulh (11 November 1929) about claimants to prophethood arising in the Qadiani Jamaat. The title is: “Thousands of prophets will come: One of them arises in Jhelum”.


  50. Dear Mr. Fazil Jamal:

    It seems that you are the go-between person from this blog to Mr. Munir Ahmad Azim Sahib. You posted this link in which under section 8 Mr. Munir Ahmad Azim Sahib rebuts and admonishes Rashid for his post in this thread (link 1, link 2)

    I am factually quite disappointed by lack of intellectual strength and the weak logic put forth by Mr. Munir Ahmad Azim Sahib in which he tries to draw historical parallels of Abraham, Moses, Muhammad to himself i.e. like these prophets he too was brought up in a morally debased Qadiani Jamaat. Just as these prophets, his claim to fame is that he too is now speaking against the very people he initially belonged to. These kind of lame self serving examples can be made by anyone one in the Qadiani Jamaat. By quoting these examples one does not become a Divinely appointed. It takes much more than that e.g. one is “Sadiq” and “Amin” before being Divine appointment. One writes Braheen-e-Ahmadiyya before claiming to be a Mujaddid, one goes into history of not lying even as a child at the cost of his life and possessions to the highway-robbers (Abdul Qadir Jilani) etc. Else, I am afraid Rashid is right on the money to question any one who one fine morning rolls out of bed to make the claim of being appointed Mujaddid.

    In case of Moses and Abraham, Quran does not give historical accounts of their early life, whereas as for Muhammad, the secular history bears witness that he was NEVER a polytheist. For Abraham Quran bears witness that he too was never a polytheist either. Even though Mr. Munir Ahmad Azim Sahib was never a polytheist before this claim of Mujaddid, but he for sure was follower, aider and abettor of the Qadiani dogmas and was in cahoots with the Khalifas.  Lets not compare apples and oranges.  Abraham never signed up to the Godhead of Nimrod and was actually an idol destroyer even as a child.  Muhammad never bowed to deities despite belonging to the family of Keepers of Kaaba. Can Mr. Munir Ahmad Azim Sahib make such a claim?

    Remember, burden is on the claimant. Let him prove it. Please ask Mr. Munir Ahmad Azim Sahib to show us the money i.e. his ilhams, writings, virtuous past, intellectual vision and solutions for the quandary of Islam etc. Once he presents some of these needed items, is able to take criticism with patience and logic, then it is up to his audience to accept him or reject him. Tell him to take heart. Like any divinely appointed, he has to pass the secular test before the spiritual challenges.


  51. yeah i quite agree with above posts. eg  why should it bother a doctor if i refuse to consider him a doctor. what difference would it make to him?  

    i ve to add

    >>The prophecy of the muslih mau’ud is amazing. Imagine making a claim in a tiny village of India that a son will be born who not only will be pious and blessed, but his fame will spread thoughout the world. It came true. The Hindu enemies of the Promised Messiah who said his sons will be corrupted were proved wrong.>>

    son may also refer to a characteristic of that personality. it could mean someone who have strong personality by facing the rough and tough of life.

    this term has reminded me – Allah gives you the news of hardships (my mind had this thought that this is how He has spoken with Mary in Quran and could not pay attention to the word used for hardships but remember news of some misfortune) and the son that will come forth.


  52. He has said – I have given nothing to prophets except baseerat. (what does baseerat mean? – my idea about it is that its mind ability to see through problems and offer a solution accordingly) 

    I am not very well read of Mirza Sahib but what little i have read (four questions answered, 6 physical and spiritual stages, does God hear man’s prayers, Taswuf in Islam, Chief attributes of Allah) – all show originality, intelligence and profound knowledge of Quran.


  53. June 30th, 2011 at 4:17 am
    From Fazil Jamal:

    @ Rashid and Ikram

    Thank you for your comments.
     
    I was a regular member of the Qadiani Jamaat till October 2010 when I took Bai’at at the hands of Munir Ahmad Sahib, recognizing his status as an Elect of Allah for our times.
     
    As some one who grew up in the Q Jamaat, I always believed that the door of revelation is still open and that Allah can and may speak to “whomsoever of His Servants He pleases” (40:16). While the Q Jamaat now theoretically continues to agree and hold on to the belief about the continuity of divine revelations, they have virtually disowned any practical manifestation of it with a concept of perpetual man-made Khilafat. Yes, I also believed that the Khulafa of the Jamaat are righteous persons and that they represent the best of Islam and they deserve my obedience and assistance in all that is good. But, I for one never thought even for a moment that only the Khulafa can enjoy the divine favour or that Allah cannot elevate a common Ahmadi, if He so will.
     
    So when I heard about the claims of Munir Ahmad Sahib and read about the Ilhams, virtuous past, humble material circumstances and, more than everything else, his strong commitment to Tawhid, I sought Allah’s guidance on the matter through my prayers and supplications for several days. Naïve and strange as it might sound, I became convinced through my prayers that Allah has shown me some signs that he is indeed the Mujaddid of the new century.
     
    We could certainly disagree on everything concerning the claims of Munir Ahmad Sahib. But, Judging one without showing the humility of examining his work may cause us to tumble. I believe rushing to absolute judgements based on group identity is a mistake.
     
    As some one who has no real experience of being a recipient of divine revelations yet believe in their reality, I believe it is prudent to be cautious: “If he be a liar, on him will be the sin of his lie; but if he is truthful, then some of that which he threatens you with will surely befall you. Certainly, Allah guides not one who is a transgressor, and a liar” (40:29).
     


  54. Dear brother Fazil Jamal sahib,
     
    You have right to have belief and do ba’it of whom so ever you want. I have never met and I don’t think I will ever meet Munir Ahmad sahib; and with out examining his work, IF I have to pick between him and Qadiani Khalifa 2 Mirza Mahmud Ahmad (whose works I have examined), I will hands down pick Munir Ahmad sahib as Mamur-min-Allah. I hold belief that no body can be worse than Qadiani Khalifa 2 Mirza Mahmud Ahmad.
     
    I do not want to dissuade you from Munir Ahmad sahib. I only gave my opinion that why a former Qadiani Murrabi cannot become Mujaddid. Just take it or leave it.
     
    I’ll only suggest you one thing. If you can read Urdu, then please read Interview with Abdul Manan Omar sahib son of Maulana Noor Ud Din sahib. I recently wrote post on it. Then ask yourself: Can a person who holds belief that Qadiani Khalifa 2 Mirza Mahmud Ahmad was “Mamur-min-Allah” himself be a Mujaddid?
     
    Good luck in your search of truth.
     


  55.  
    Dear Mr. Fazil Jamal:
     
    Thanks for sharing your personal story and your quest to seek truth by spiritual means. To me that is a respected endeavor.

    But your post generates some basic questions e.g. Munir Sahib is on the record to bash Khalifat in Q Jamaat, yet according to your belief “Khulafa of the Jamaat are righteous persons and that they represent the best of Islam and they deserve my obedience and assistance in all that is good.” and your only difference with Q Jamaat is that Khulafa do not have the exclusive on Divine inspiration. I am not sure if this belief of yours about Khalifas is still existent. If not, then why not now? If yes then – this is where I get confused. How can a Khalifa be righteous and monopolist at the same time? Either Khulafa are conceited or you are mistaken, or both?
     
    You also superficially mentioned some attributes of Munir Sahib i.e. his “Ilhams, virtuous past, humble material circumstances and, more than everything else, his strong commitment to Tawhid.” For these attributes can you or he himself summarily enlighten us, as any lengthy discourse will only be possible on his own blog, if he has any. As far as Tawhid is concerned, only Allah is the judge of one’s Tawhid, neither you nor anyone else. We as individuals can only judge a person for his secular piety, sensibilities and vision. Once a person proves himself in this space, only then his spirituality can be accepted. This is the example of Muhammad (PBUH) and all those who accepted him in his lifetime and even until now. The early Muslims had the advantage to personally witness the Prophet, but initially lacked the advantage that present day Muslims have i.e. being in possession of FULL Quran and the standards it sets for a Divinely appointed.
     
    You quoted the verse – If he be a liar, on him will be the sin of his lie; but if he is truthful, then some of that which he threatens you with will surely befall you. Certainly, Allah guides not one who is a transgressor, and a liar” (40:29). The standards thus explained by HMGA for sin of his lie i.e. the false claimant or the transgressor, and a liar is a period of less than twenty-three years. Now that is a life time of towing a line which might turn out to be false like QK2. Maybe you, but probably none from Lahore Jamaat is going to give it any chance beyond a rational discussion or a debate. Life is too short, better live it as a Muslim first and a follower later of anyone that can be doubtful by any chance. The argument goes back to secular logic i.e. the buck stop with the claimant to prove himself.

    As far as critics of any issue are concerned, they can be skeptics or cynics. At least I can assure you that in Lahore Jamaat you will not find cynics of any claimant as they themselves are awaiting a Mujaddid, yet they have full right to be skeptic of anyone unless such a person does match the standards of Prophet Muhammad or the Mujaddid of last Islamic century i.e. HMGA.

    Note: Secularism does not mean atheism. It is this secular first reasoning where the money is in Quran e.g. 13:03. Verily, in all this there are messages indeed for people who think. OR 7:179 And certainly We have created for hell many of the jinn and the people —they have hearts with which they do not understand, and they have eyes with which they do not see, and they have ears with which they do not hear. They are as cattle; rather, they are more astray. These are the heedless ones.


  56. >>read about the Ilhams, virtuous past, humble material circumstances and, more than everything else, his strong commitment to Tawhid,>>

    how can i read about it too?
     


  57. June 30th, 2011 at 3:52 pm
    From Fazil Jamal:

    @ Amna

    Munir Ahmad Sahib has a website where all information pertaining to his claim are available. Please check:

    http://www.jamaat-ul-sahih-al-islam.com/jusai_files/indexeng.htm

    @ Ikram

    As someone who grew up within the Q Jamaat  and learnt everything only through the prism of the Q Jamaat,my approach to Khilafat was perhaps predictable: looking upon the Institution as the earthly embodiment of 24:56 and the ‘second manifestation of divine power’ mentioned by HMGA. So, the Khalifa was virtually the shadow of Allah on earth.    

    With my new allegiance, Khilafat looks different. Khulafa are fallible people, capable of making mistakes and failures. Not really the recipients of divine revelations as i imagined them to be. Not every word of them deserves to be taken as heavenly wisdom.

    Yes, Munir Sahib is highly critical of the current Khilafat and consider that it is not something extraordinarily unique as Q Jamaat makes out it to be. He says, every group has their own Khulafa even if they call them by different names.

    Personally, i continue to consider that the Khulafa were righteous men, though they were mistaken in many things. I think the system became such that people who could have given honest opinions and had true interest of the Jamaat in mind may not have found themselves near the Khalifa. Perhaps they were surrounded by lesser men, leading to the inexorable decline in values and the prevalence of injustice. So much so that by the time of the Fourth Khalifa, he was blissfully unaware of the manipulations done by his officers in manufacturing the Bai’at targets all over the world. 

    I could be mistaken in my perception about the Khulafa and I am willing to go by evidence.

    @ Rashid:

    My knowledge about the victims of Khilafat system are very negligible. Unfortunately, I cannot read Urdu, I am from the deep south of India. But i eagerly look forward to seeing your translations of the Interview with Abdul Manan Omar Sahib someday soon.


  58. http://www.jamaat-ul-sahih-al-islam.com/jusai_files/revtexts_index.htm

    It has similarities with sayings of Islamic saints. I liked the discourse on Sweetness. 

    Charity – i feel that it is not of wealth again. ‘spend out of what we have given you” – if Allah has not given me wealth does it means i am excluded? but if we study the words with belief in the great Unseen, revelation, Angels, prayer – it gives an idea of spending of spiritual wealth which is acquired by taking these principles in practice. Spending of spiritual wealth is as important as physical. that discourse did not highlight it. 

    My question is – this is not direct speech of Allah. are these inspired thoughts?


  59. >>Increasing of 3 into 4>>

    i was thinking about it and the only scenario that sounds bit plausible is

    He will come after 3 great men – that make them the team of 4

    or

    He will have reflection of 3 prophets (my guess is Moses, Jesus and Muhammad) and his own personality.

    i reached this conclusion cos if i second an opinion that means i agree and i can add my own view in it, if required.

    I have been discussing it at home – my sis says she thinks – he’ll multiply the number – make 3 into 4.

    Mr fazil – i have some reservations, eg on chastity and master’s will, dreams page – i can assure you that a common person may have experience of dreams which is far great in number and substance that then visions mentioned there. thats why i think someone who is appointed by Allah – should have more meaningful dreams as compared to a common person.


  60. @Fazil Jamal sahib:
     
    Message for Munir Ahmad sahib of Mauritius.
     
    Please convey my message to Munir sahib. Please tell him not to waste his time on me and I don’t want to waste my time on him. I have no qualms with his claim of Mujaddid or what ever. I don’t mind if he makes bigger claim than what he has already made. Looks like I have touched his sensitive nerve. Please tell him I am very glad and happy for him. Tell him I encourage all claimants like him in Qadiani Cult.  As people like Munir sahib will only put further cracks and fractures in Qadiani Jamaat. Please tell him Rashid Jahangiri is rooting for him.

    Please ask him to visit me and have dinner with me on his next visit to USA.
     


  61. July 2nd, 2011 at 3:11 am
    From Fazil Jamal:

    @ Rashid:

    “For you your religion, for me mine” (109:7). 

    @ Amna:

    Munir Sahib is obviously better placed to explain the  the nature of dreams and visions and revelations he is receiving. I was once told that the great part of these experiences are yet to be put on the public domain and they will be published only with the permission of Allah.   You could directly seek his explanation at the website.

    I for one would not have left the Jamaat and people and ideas i was familiar with all my life but for this strong inner sense of a man in communion with Allah.There is a first hand account of someone who actually witnessed it all from the very beginning. Please check:

    http://www.jamaat-ul-sahih-al-islam.com/jusai_files/test_zd.htm


  62.  
    I read a few sampler topics by Munir Sahib on his website which evoke memories of attending a Sunday service in a Presbyterian Church for baptism of my neighbors daughter. While waiting for the baptism, the topic for the day was “Women rights in Christianity.” The speaker spoke eloquently about the topic for about an hour, using power point slides. Despite the sincerity and goodness of what he spoke and preached about, it was a disappointment for me, for the mere fact that he spoke only as a good citizen and scholar, but not for once he quoted the scripture. I was in the house of the Lord and expected to hear words of the Lord on the topic. In summary, he spoke what is good that one learns through one’s upbringing, scholarship and life experiences. If I were to take his words as a constitution for women rights, then essentially, I would be adopting a religion which came from man and not from God. That being said, I not denying that good words cannot come out of a man’s mouth or pen.

    Since Munir’s sahib’s writing are in public domain, I would summarily comment as follows:

    Sweetness – This topic could be summarized under concept of “mirror neurons” i.e. smile begets a smile and a frown the anger. The analogy of mosque/temple and heart is already covered in the works of Bulleh Shah. Such expressions are sweet to ears, but how to transform the emotional sweetness into action? Shouldn’t that be the work of a Mujaddid to teach? No actionable teaching here.

    Truthfulness – These are simple dinner time talks by any Muslim parent.

    Prayers – This article could had been more comprehensive than what was written. It only differentiated a believer from materialist. It failed to address and educate an atheist, an agnostic and a secularist. The clear and present threat to belief is atheism, which a Mujaddid must address. HMGA dealt with all such audiences of his time. Quran is full of references to prayers.

    I might sound skeptic, but I am not impressed by the scholarship, at least in above writing samples, especially some one who has read bits and pieces of Quran, HMGA, Nooruddin, Muhammad Ali, Kamaluddin, Sadruddin, Abdul Haq Vidyarti, Basharat Ahmad, Mannan Omar, Pickthall, Islamic Review etc. No wonder, it is not article of faith to believe in someone’s claim of Mujaddid. I would like to hear the analysis of others from Lahore Jamaat.

    My guess is that since Munir Sahib makes a claim of a Mujaddid , he must be a Mujaddid for general Muslims who have not yet delved into AAIIL literature. I would encourage Munir Sahib to use the AAIIL resources as well for the betterment of humanity in general and Muslims in particular.


  63. I’m afraid that i don’t agree with “the great part of these experiences are yet to be put on the public domain and they will be published only with the permission of Allah. ”

    The simple reason is that Allah would never stop anyone to share the ‘good’ with others. If He has bestowed His favour on anyone and it has played an important role in their practice then why would they be stopped from sharing that experience with others and asked to wait for a certain time? 

    >>The aim of human life is not the production of children alone. Our main aim is to unite the soul with God. A person on the spiritual path should always have this goal in view. The relationship of man and wife after a certain age, say 40 or 50 years, should be discontinued.>>
    this is against Quran. Quran speaks of a prophet who was given a son in old age. Marriage’s significance is belittled in these words. “They are garment for you and you are garment for them”. (in my words)
    These can’t be words inspired by Allah but church (monkery).

    No one who is on spiritual path has to abandon material world.

    Abu Sa`id Ibn Abi-L-Khayr:
    The perfect mystic is not an ecstatic devotee lost in contemplation of Oneness, nor a saintly recluse shunning all commerce with mankind, but “the true saint” goes in and out amongst the people and eats and sleeps with them and buys and sells in the market and marries and takes part in social intercourse, and never forgets God for a single moment. 
    and for these words “”Even if the world leaves you tomorrow, but Allah is with you, ALL is with you , but if the world is with you, and Allah is not with you, nothing is with you.””
    i ve read 
    He who has found Allah has lost nothing, and he who has lost Allah has found nothing.
    ‘Abd al kader

    There is a verse which says He can’t be questioned but what they do will be questioned.

    this is my formula that anything, which is from Allah, has no ambiguity.  it can not be incoherent. it should be unquestionable.

    This is a matter between Him and the one who attribute words to Him alone. I fail to see the wisdom and clarity in his work (the little i have read). 

    Allah speaks in direct language – “We have sent 6 thousand clouds on earth. They won’t shower. They will give light. They are clouds of light”

    “Your land is famous for its fertilization. They are after your land. But what they have taken before which they will take now? I am the One who determines the profit or loss of a harvest. Its near that I send them back”

    “I do wish well, I know how to wish well (barkat), I do set on fire (jalaata hun), I know how to set on fire, I do love (piyar kerta hun), I know how to love – this world will come to an end soon (ish duniya ki saf jald lapait li jai gi) – my understanding is the state of despair or hopeless will end.

    “Like blood sucking insect I suck evil. I am enough for them (Main in ka ghaira dalnay ke liay kaafi hun). I am Ahtef on prophethood of prophets (Main nabion ki nauwat pe ahtef hun).”

    “I have given nothing to prophets except baseerat”

    “I am more interested in feelings of heart that make one rush for Me than one’s attire”


  64. Fazil Jamal,

    Curious to know, when and in what words did Munir Sahib make a claim to be a Mujaddid? Also, in doing so, does he regard himself a Prophet?

    Thanks.


  65. The litmus test to determine anyone’s view about Islam is to test him against Quran. This test is not to judge someone to be right or wrong (which is for Allah to do so), but it will tell you how far apart are your views from that person.

    Munir Sahib is writing a brief commentary on each of the Surahs in Quran, and is a work in progress. I came across the Surah Al-Baqara. Towards the bottom, he comments:



    ALIF LAAM MEEM ~ AN EXPLANATION – Alif Lam Mim are known as Al Muqattaat (letters used and pronounced separately). Each letter has a definite numerical value (Jarir). The letters Alif Lam Mim have the numerical value 71 (Alif having the numerical value: 1, Lam: 30 and Mim: 40). Thus the placing of Alif Lam Mim in the beginning of the Surah Al-Baqara may signify that its subject-matter, i.e., the special consolidation of early Islam, would take 71 years to unfold itself completely.

    The above tells me that there is some influence of Numerology in Munir Sahib’s view of Islam, at least that is not my Quran and Islam. Who is right and who is wrong? I leave it to your sense of judgment and Allah.
    —–
    @Omar, you asked Fazil Jamal if Munir Sahib considers himself a prophet. At least you get a hint of his views in commentary of Surah Al-Baqara (as he ties in the previous Surah Fatiha) where he writes:



    In the last verse of the Surah Al-Fatiha man is ordained to pray Allah the Almighty to bestow upon him His best favours. Which favours are these? They are actually the coming of prophets who will come from time to time to feed mankind with pure and healthy milk to repair their body and soul, that is, to direct people to remove from them all bad deeds. Now, how can we close the door of prophethood? If man closes the windows and draw the curtains of the room, will he be able to get sunlight and fresh air? Of course not!

    My guess is that the prophets that he is referring to above are in the same league as Abraham, Ismail, Moses etc which he writes about on the same page. We know that he is also influenced by Q-Jamaat, so there will be no end to its meaning, interpretation, implications, deductions and so on about the word prophet.


  66. July 3rd, 2011 at 2:40 am
    From Fazil Jamal:

    @ Omar,

    Munir Sahib says he received first revelations in the year 2000. They are:

    La Maqsooda illallah meaning there is no destination but Allah; 

    La Mabooda bil haqqe illallah – There is no one to worship in truth but Allah &

    Fasbir sabran Jameela i.e. show beautiful patience.

    Words stated for claiming Mujaddidiyat:

    Ya Khaleefathullah! Qul: “Annal Mujaddido” (O Khaleefathullah! Tell them: ‘I am the Mujaddid’)

    Yes, Munir Sahib does consider himself as an Ummati Prophet, just like the Q Jamaat considers about HMGA.

    @ Amna:

    “I’m afraid that i don’t agree with “the great part of these experiences are yet to be put on the public domain and they will be published only with the permission of Allah. ”

    In his friday sermons at times, Munir Sahib keeps mentioning about revelations and visions he says he received. But they are yet to be consolidated and put together in a single place. As a common believer, I am also impatient to see them all. 

    @ Ikram Sahib,

    i liked the critique. As a follower, many things are becoming clear only gradually. Grace is entirely in Allah’s hands.I consider his mission to be a work in progress and believe that his mission is entirely in Allah’s hands since he has taken the name of Allah.

    The Holy Prophet of Islam started out as an “Ummi”, yet, by the end of his mission, he was the greatest of them of all. HMGA wrote that at times there were 400 prophets among the Israelites calling to the worship of one Allah. So, it is not inconceivable for me to consider that a soul may be in communion with Allah even in these times.
     


  67. @Fazil Jamal:

    Dear brother i will send you US$ 1000/= if you could find me one reference in HMGA books where he has used phrase ‘Ummati-Prophet’ (Ummati-Nabi).
    Thanks.


  68.  
    @ Mr. Fazil Jamal:

    To quote you about Munir Sahib – “…I consider his mission to be a work in progress…”, I write the following:

    Almost ten years have passed for Munir Sahib when he started to branch off from Q-Jamaat and develop his own ministry over period of time since.

    My guess about you is that you are a Muslim, who has access to Quran and its translations/commentaries by various authors, you must have read works of HMGA and Nooruddin. With these assumptions, my questions to you regarding Munir Sahib are:
    1. What are your expectations of his work when it is completed?
    2. What is the focus of his current teaching and mission?
    3. What is amiss with current knowledge of Quran that he is trying to bring forth?
    4. On what basis has he supported the Khilafas of before, both spiritually, morally and monetarily?
    5. What are you gaining personally from him that you would not otherwise obtain by self study and contemplation?
    6. What is new in his teachings than what a modern Muslim mind already believes and agrees upon?
    7. Since he claims to be an appointed prophet, then what will happen to those who do not accept him, both Muslims and non-Muslims?
    8. What are his views of claims of other Mujaddids in Q-Jamaat, who also claim to have received similar ordaining revelations. Does he believe in multiplicity of such ordainment or claims exclusivity for himself alone?
    9. All prophets had peers and helpers of high quality. Any such sahaba of his yet? If yes, what are their credentials?
    10. What are his personal assets? Have they changed with time? Any regular audits?

    Now the question to you personally:
    You have followed Q-Jamaat before despite the reasons not to do so that you mention. What compelled you to stay in Q-Jamaat before and not leave it despite knowing its shortcomings? What is about Q-Jamaat that keeps people entrapped-in? How far is the natural decay of Q-Jamaat and do you envision its natural dismemberment? What does the Khilafat of Q-Jamaat have to offer to its members but self-serving admonishments? How much energy does a Qadiani has to put in to please the Khalifa, both monetarily and emotionally? Are there any authors and thinkers in Q-Jamaat? What is that single thing which keeps members Q-Jamaat in their Jamaat beside blind fellowship (that is no different than Pirs/Mureeds)?


  69. it is indeed sad to read the interpretation of last verses of fateha. 

    1:6 The path of those upon whom Thou hast bestowed favours,a

    i am not sure that the ‘prophethood’ is the ultimate favour  or the goodly pleasure of Allah?

    I’ll opt for His goodly pleasure only.

    3:14Fair-seeming to men is made the love of desires, of women and sons and hoarded treasures of gold and silver and well-bred horses and cattle and tilth. This is the provision of the life of this world. And Allah — with Him is the good goal (of life).

    3:15Say: Shall I tell you of what is better than these? For those who guard against evil are Gardens with their Lord, in which rivers flow, to abide in them, and pure companions and Allah’s goodly pleasure. And Allah is Seer of the servants.

    2:207And of men is he who sells himself to seek the pleasure of Allah. And Allah is Compassionate to the servants.

    9:72Allah has promised to the believers, men and women, Gardens, wherein flow rivers, to abide therein, and goodly dwellings in Gardens of perpetual abode. And greatest of all is Allah’s goodly pleasure. That is the grand achievement.


  70. It is the message that proves the messenger, not the claim.

    Bowl of Saki, July 6, by Hazrat Inayat Khan

    The prophet brings love, the love of God, the Father and Mother of the whole humanity, a love that is life itself. No words nor actions can express that love. The presence of the prophet, his very being, speaks of it, if only the heart had ears to listen. Verily, to the believer all is right, and to the unbeliever all is wrong.The principal work of the prophet is to glorify the Name of God and to raise humanity from the denseness of the earth, to open the doors of the human heart to the divine beauty which is everywhere manifested and to illuminate souls which are groping in darkness for years. The prophet brings the message of the day, a reform for that particular period in which he is born. A claim of a prophet is nothing to the real prophet. The being of the prophet, the work of the prophet, and the fulfillment of his task is itself the proof of prophethood. ~~~ “Religious Gatheka 10, The Prophet”, by Hazrat Inayat Khan (unpublished)There was a time when the world was not capable of seeing. Humanity did not have enough realization to recognize the message, that is why the claim of prophecy had to be made. But now the world can recognize, sooner or later, what is right and what is wrong. The warner, the master, the messenger of today will not claim. He will only work. He will leave his work to prove for itself whether it is true or false. from  http://wahiduddin.net/mv2/VII/VII_32.htmThere was a time when the message was given while the people were waiting for a messenger to come, as happened in the time of Jesus Christ, when there were thousands and thousands waiting for a messenger from above. The Master came, and gave his service to the world, and left again. Some realized what had happened then, and some are still waiting. But the one who claimed to be Alpha and Omega is never absent; sometimes he shows himself, sometimes he keeps in the background. … The divine message is the answer to the cry of souls individually and collectively; the divine message is life and it is light. The sun does not teach anything, but in its light we learn to know all things. The sun does not cultivate the soil nor does it sow seed, but it helps the plants to grow, to flower, and to bear fruit. from  http://wahiduddin.net/mv2/IX/IX_2.htm


  71. 3:61 …..  let us be earnest in prayer, and invoke the curse of Allah on the liars.

    69:43 It is a revelation from the Lord of the worlds.
    69:44 And if he had fabricated against Us certain sayings,

    69:45We would certainly have seized him by the right hand,

    @Fazil Jamal sahib:

    Anyone who relates ‘words’ to Allah – Should say If I am lying or fabricating than Allah should seize me by right hand (His power).


  72. October 9th, 2011 at 6:44 am
    From Nasir Ahmad Sultani:

    Assalamu Alaikum wa Rahmatullah wa Brakaatuh
    I left here a comment but it is not published. Can’t LHR jama’at face arguments? 


  73. assalamu alaikum,

    The purpose of this forum must be obvious to its readers. A good example is ‘Project Rebuttal’ refuting allegations against Islam and the Holy Prophet by providing answers largely from Lahore Ahmadiyya material. Then we also seek to show on this forum how highly relevant, and urgently needed to be spread, is the interpretation of Islamic teachings provided by Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad. Any submission to our forum, both for and against our standpoint mentioned above, is what is relevant to be published here, and I hope we try not to deviate from this, and if we do drift from it, then we return back to our main objectives.

    We are still trying to accomplish the unfinished and continuing work of the last Mujaddid. Until that aim is achieved, or circumstances arise which make his reform work irrelevant to the prevailing issues in the world, we can’t turn to anyone else. When a Mujaddid is still bitterly opposed, reviled, abused and rejected, as Hazrat Mirza sahib is, we don’t think Allah then decides to send another one to replace him, as if Allah is admitting defeat and failure!


  74. October 15th, 2011 at 4:57 pm
    From Nasir Ahmad Sultani:

    Zahid Aziz sb.
    Assalamu Alaikum wa Rahmatullah wa Brakaatuh
    Are you sure about your these words about Hadharat Masih Maud Alaihissalam:
     ” When a Mujaddid is still bitterly opposed, reviled, abused and rejected, as Hazrat Mirza sahib is, we don’t think Allah then decides to send another one to replace him, as if Allah is admitting defeat and failure! ”
    An opponent of Islam can use exactly these words about Holy Prophet Sallallahu Alaihi wa Sallam. I think you must review your words. Hadharat Masih Maud Alaihissalam completed his mission. His aim was achieved. He is a successful Mujaddid. About 4,00,000 people accepted him in his life.
    Did you read in Holy Qur’an کتب اللہ لاغلبن انا و رسلی (Al-Mujaadilah:22). Hadharat Masih Maud Alaihissalam was sent and appointed by Allah Almighty. And according to this verse of Holy Qur’an, who is sent by Allah Almighty, he could not be defeated, he could not be failed.
    You must read Al-Wasiyyat and refresh your knowledge. Hadharat Masih Maud Alaihissalam wrote there:
     وہ مقاصد جو کسی قدر ناتمام رہ گءے تھے اپنے کمال کو پہنچتے ہیں۔ 
    It is must be thought that who will complete them? Second Power of Allah will complete them. Second Power of Allah are Hadharat Masih Maud Alaihissalam’s spiritual successors (Mujaddidin) for next era. It must be kept in mind that none new Mujaddidin can replace Hadharat Masih Maud Alaihissalam. They will be his true followers.


  75. Assalamu alaikum.

    I have published your comment upon receiving it. I will write a considered response in one day’s time, inshallah. 


  76. October 15th, 2011 at 11:44 pm
    From Nasir Ahmad Sultani:

    Allah Almighty may help you to give appropriate response. آمین


  77. An opponent of Islam can only use this argument if a prophet appears after the Holy Prophet (s.a.w), so the opponent could say that one prophet failed so Allah replaced him by another. This is why we reject the coming again of Jesus, even though other Muslims tell us that Jesus will appear merely as a follower of the Holy Prophet, because Jesus would nonetheless become the focal point as a prophet, regardless of how strongly he tells people that he is only a follower.

    I was applying the same argument to a mujaddid coming after the Promised Messiah, since the P.M. was also a mujaddid. A mujaddid comes to revive Islam, and no matter how much he testifies to the truth of a previous mujaddid, he has his own mission of revival of Islam, to which he invites Muslims.

    I have read carefully the passage in Al-Wasiyyat you have referred to. He says there that the man appointed by Allah lays down the seed of his mission with Allah’s help, but some aspects are not completed, and after his death Allah’s help (second power) continues to come to aid and complete his mission, and defeat the opponents. He gives here the example of Hazrat Abu Bakr, who saved Islam at the Holy Prophet’s death. (Elsewhere he has mentioned Hazrat Umar as achieving the victories promised to the Holy Prophet.) But Hazrat Abu Bakr and Umar were not mujaddids or “ma`mur”. Therefore the second power can be manifested through followers generally.

    We believe (but you may not agree with this) that the promised Divine help by the second power has been coming since shortly after the death of the Promised Messiah. First, in 1914, Allah’s special help saved his true claims and teachings at the hands of a few men against all odds. Second, in the next 40 years or so, magnificent literature was produced, principally by Maulana Muhammad Ali, which took the picture of Islam presented by the Promised Messiah all over the world. It was a “maqsad” (or objective, the word used in your Urdu quote) of the P.M. to produce a commentary of the Quran in English for Western countries. Maulana Muhammad Ali, through the promised Divine help, fulfilled this “maqsad”.

    Thirdly, in our own lifetimes, it was commonly believed after the 1974 and 1984 oppressive measures in Pakistan that the Lahore Ahmadiyya Jamaat would be wiped out. The 1974-1984 era was exactly at the head of the 15th century (which began in 1979). No individual mujaddid arose to save the movement, but Allah’s help saved it. In the LAM, our literature is our most precious possession. People said, it would be all lost and destroyed through opposition in Pakistan. But Allah’s help by means of modern technology saved and preserved it, and made it accessible to all. (Whether we are motivated to benefit from it is a different question.)

    As long as the path of progress for Islam shown by the Promised Messiah remains relevant, and is yet to be troden upon for a long way, a mujaddid cannot arise because, most importantly, a mujaddid is raised by Allah according to the needs of the time. The condition of “need” is implicit in the hadith about the coming of mujaddids.

    These are my views, and Allah knows best as He is the One Who sends mujaddids. 


  78.  
    Message for Nasir Ahmad Sultani sahib
     
    Dear Sultani sahib,
     
    As you will agree, every Mujaddid has a mission. Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad sahib mission also included ‘Mission to Restore Honor of Holy Prophet Muhammad SAWS’.  In this regard he published literature, took Munazara (debate) challenges, and Mubailiah (prayer duel) challenges. I being a non-claimant of any divine appointment have been involved in Munazara on internet with opponents of HMGA, like many other Lahore Ahmadiyya Movement members.  I think this is primary job of a person who claims to be Mujjaddid of 15th Islamic Hijra century. You beside three other Qadianis on internet have made claim to this office. So, I will urge you to please take this responsibility and RESTORE HONOR OF HMGA, at least do it on the internet. I am not asking you to go to some public place in Pakistan and challenge these opponents of HMGA. Please do it on internet, from the comfort and safety of your drawing room sofa. You may even have to take up the Mubailiah challenge or even yourself need to give one in light of divine guidance. There is chance that your Islamic Scholarship may be of high quality and you may be able to convince and impress Dr. Zahid Aziz and others from LAM.  
     
    Please go to following websites, forums and blogs and please give jaw breaking replies to opponents of HMGA. Thank you.
     
    http://ahmediorg.yuku.com/forums/1/General-Discussion
     
    http://thecult.info/blog/
    http://www.secondhandislam.co.uk/five-challenges.php


  79. October 19th, 2011 at 6:25 am
    From Nasir Ahmad Sultani:

     
    Dear Zahid Aziz sb.
    السلام علیکم ورحمة اللہ وبرکاتہ
    It is right that we have to judge: Is this the appropriate timeofa Mujaddid?
    a.        I think you will agree with me that Allah Almighty knows better than anyone else about the real time. If He has decided to send a Mujaddid now, we are not in the position to oppose His decision.

    Live contact with Allah Almighty is the main objective of a religion. Every religion and nowadays Islam must provide opportunity to connect people to their Creator. But there was none. I have searched and challenged all over the world. There is none of the followers of Islam who has his own presentable live connection with Allah Almighty. There are some people who are claiming. But if you see minutely, you will know easily that they are not on the right path. Like Munir A. Azim sb., A. Ghaffar Janba sb. and Zafarullah D. sb. These claimants are not believers of Khatm-e-Nabuwat. They think that Khalifas of Mirza Mahmood sb. are true Khlifas although Janba sb. has some disagreement. Munir sb. thinks that Mirza Mahmood sb. was Musleh Maud. Munir sb. is claimant of Ummati Nabi as well.

    There was one and only Jama’at (Jama’at Ahmadiyya Lahore) which was left and able to have live contact with Allah Almighty. But I am very sorry to say that I could not find any person there as well. I have challenged your Ameer sb. and your Jama’at, but there is no response. This challenge is still there, if someone has ability to accept it.

    As you know that it is necessary to provide physical example with the theory. If you present old examples, nobody is going to accept it. Islam is a living religion and it has living examples with it in every era, as your Jama’at had in past. Why our era is empty? Allah Almighty has sent the example. Islam is not the religion which is left helpless in any era. Allah Almighty has revealed in Holy Qur’an:
    انا نحن نزلنا الذکر وانا لہ لحافظون
    This safety of Qur’an is not only formal and wordy, it is spiritual as well. Spiritual safety is to show Qur’anic teachings in a spiritual person. If someone has not his own contact with Allah Almighty, he cannot present Islam in real sense.   

    I know that I have a great number of targets to achieve as a Mujaddid. It is a ground reality that not only Prophet of Islam Sallallahu Alaihi wa Sallam, but Hadharat Mujaddid-e-Azam Alaihissam is also being “bitterly opposed, reviled, abused and rejected”. So as a Mujaddid I have to achieve this target as well. As Hadharat Masih Maud Alaihissalam wrote:
    ہمارا تو یہ قول ہے کہ ایک زمانہ گزرنے کےبعد جب پاک تعلیم پر خیالات فاسدہ کا ایک غبار پڑ جاتا ہے اور حق خالص کا چہرہ چھپ جاتا ہے۔ تب اس خوبصورت چہرہ کو دکھلانے کے لءے مجدد اور محدث اور روحانی خلیفے آتے ہیں۔
     ﴿شہادت القرآن صفحہ ۴۴ ،روحانی خزاءن جلد ٦ صفحہ ۳۴۰﴾
    ضروری ہوا کہ خدا وند کریم جس نے ہر ایک کو نجات کیلءے بلایا ایسا ہی انتظام ہر ایک صدی کیلءے رکھے تا اسکے بندے کسی زمانہ میں حق الیقین کے مراتب سے محروم نہ رہیں
    ﴿شہادت القرآن صفحہ ۵١ ،روحانی خزاءن جلد ٦ صفحہ ۴۷﴾
     

    The time of a Mujaddid is defined clearly in Hadith-e-Mujaddidin. Islamic history has proved this Hadith 14 times. Hadharat Mujaddid-e-Azam Alaihissalam has proved this Hadith as a true Hadith many times. This Hadith tells us that it is necessary that Allah will appoint the persons in every hundred years to revivereligion of this امة for its benefits. See the words of Hadith: ان اللہ یبعث لھذہ الامة علی راس کل ماءة سنة من یجدد لھا دینھا.

    You must concentrate on the words “ان اللہ یبعث” It is necessary that Allah will appoint. So a Mujaddid must be appointed by Allah Almighty. It is wrong to say that a Mujaddid could be decided by the people as a Mujaddid.

    Hadharat Hakim Nooruddin Rahmatullah alaih did glorious work as a follower and example of Hadharat Abu Bakr Siddiq Razi Allah anhu and Jama’at Ahmadiyya Lahore was doing the best job during the era of
     جب تک کوءی خدا سے روح القدس پا کر کھڑا نہ ہو سب میرے بعد مل کر کام کرو.
     Now دوسری قدرت is appeared by the grace of Allah Almighty withروح القدس. Everyone including Jama’at Ahmadiya Lahore must accept it to present true and living picture of Islam.
    Hadharat Hakam-o-Adal Alaihissalaam decided:
    قرآن کی حفاظت صرف اسی قدر نہیں جو اس کے صحف مکتوبہ کو خوب نگرانی سے رکھیں کیونکہ ایسے کام تو اواءل حال میں یہود اور نصاری نےبھی کءے یہانتک کہ توریت کے نقطے بھی گن رکھے تھے۔ بلکہ اس جگہ مع حفاطت ظاہری حفاظت فواءد و تاثیرات قرآنی مراد ہے اور وہ موافق سنت اللہ کے تبھی ہو سکتی ہے کہ جب وقتاً فوقتاً ناءب رسول آویں جن میں ظلی طور پر رسالت کی تمام نعمتیں موجود ہوں اور جنکو وہ تمام برکات دیگءی ہوں جو نبیوں کو دیجاتی ہوں جیسا کہ ان آیات میں اسی امر عظیم کی طرف اشارہ ہے اور وہ یہ ہے وعداللہ الذین آمنوا منکم و عملواالصالحات لیستخلفنھم فی الارض کما استخلف الذین من قبلھم و لیمکنن لھم دینھم الذی ارتضی لھم و لیبدلنھم من بعد خوفھم امنا یعبدوننی لا یشرکون بی شیءا و من کفر بعد ذلک فاولءک ھم الفاسقون ۔
    پس یہ آیت درحقیقت اس دوسری آیت انا نحن نزلنا الذکر وانا لہ لحافظون کیلءے بطور تفسیر کےواقعہ ہے اور اس سوال کا جواب دے رہی ہے کہ حفاظت قرآن کیونکر اور کس طور سے ہو گی ۔ سو خدا تعالی فرماتا ہے کہ میں اس نبی کے خلیفے وقتاً فوقتاً بھیجتا رہوں گا اور خلیفہ کے لفظ کو اشارہ کیلءے اختیار کیا گیا کہ وہ نبی کے جانشین ہوں گے اور اس کی برکتوں میں سے حصہ پاءیں گےجیسا کہ پہلے زمانوں میں ہوتا رہا۔اور انکے ہاتھ سے برجاءی دین کی ہو گی اور خوف کے بعد امن پیدا ہو گا یعنے وہ ایسے وقتوں میں آءیں گے جب اسلام تفرقہ میں پڑا ہوگا ۔پھر ان کے آنے کے بعد جو ان سے سرکش رہے گا وہی لوگ بدکار اور فاسق ہیں ۔یہ اس بات کا جواب ہے کہ بعض جاہل کہا کرتے ہیں کہ کیا ہم پر اولیاء کا ماننا فرض ہے ۔سو اللہ تعالی فرماتا ہے کہ بیشک فرض ہے اور ان سےمخالفت کرنے والے فاسق ہیں اگر مخالفت پر ہی مریں۔
     ﴿شہادت القرآن صفحہ۴۳،۴۲ ،روحانی خزاءن جلد ٦ صفحہ ۳۳۹،۳۴۰﴾
                     Lahore Ahmadiyya Jama’at would never be wiped out. It will remain in the world forever but it will be merged in new figure Jama’at Ahmadiyya (Haqiqi).
    Allah Almighty may help you all to accept His servant Nasir Ahmad Sultani as a Mujaddid. آمین
     


  80. October 20th, 2011 at 6:21 am
    From Nasir Ahmad Sultani:

    Dear Rashid sahib,
    السلام علیکم ورحمة اللہ وبرکاتہ
    I am appointed with a great mission and I am given a great deal of targets. By the help of Allah Almighty I have to restore live contact with Allah Almighty, I have to restore honor of Islam and Ahmadiyyat, I have to restore honor of Holy Prophet Sallallahu alaihe wa Sallam and Hadharat Imam Mahdi & Masih Alaihissalam, I have to restore  honor of Holy Qur’an, Hadith and books of Hadharat Imam Mahdi & Masih  Alaihissalam etc.
    I have left my drawing room sofa for a long time ago. I have started this Jihad on internet by the grace of Allah Almighty as well. It might be not in your knowledge that I have started to make a wall against A.K. Shaikh’s cheap attacks.
            As you know that everybody has to make priorities when he starts a job. My top most priority is Jama’at Ahmadiyya Lahore, then Jama’at Ahmadiyya M. Mahmood Ahmad sb., then other Muslims and other religions. Jama’at Ahmadiyya Lahore has right of loyalty with Islam & Ahmadiyyat. Allah Almighty is providing me appropriate opportunities to serve His mission. So, most of my acceptors are from Jama’at Ahmadiyya Lahore. Some people are blaming them with bad words. But they do not know the realities. They do not know how great people they are in eyes of Allah Almighty.
    Some of them have sacrificed their properties, though they were poor. Some of them accepted me under the shadow of bullets of terrorists. Acceptance is not too easy in start. When there will be a great number and conquests, it will be much easier to accept.
                    Allah Almighty is regularly approving my services to His mission and giving me its reward. This happened yesterday as well. He spoke to me. Word of Allah Almighty is as below:
    “How swiftly you improve!”
     


  81. Sultani sahib, you write to me: “There was one and only Jama’at (Jama’at Ahmadiyya Lahore) which was left and able to have live contact with Allah Almighty. But I am very sorry to say that I could not find any person there as well. I have challenged your Ameer sb. and your Jama’at, but there is no response. This challenge is still there, if someone has ability to accept it.”

    It is true that none of us can claim to have the level of “live contact with Allah” that you are challenging us about. Among our Lahore Ahmadiyya elders there were definitely several persons who received revelation from Allah, and some of them were personally known to the present-day Lahore Ahmadis such as myself. But even they would not have replied to your challenge because they did not promote themselves as recipients of revelation. But people who knew them, including non-Ahmadis, were certain that these elders received revelation.

    What this means is that we, while not receiving revelations, have seen people of that stature and we know what high standards of piety of character and knowledge and service of Islam they had reached. They weren’t mujaddids but sometimes non-Ahmadis said to them: ‘If you had claimed to be mujaddid, we would accept you’. They said this to my maternal grandfather Maulana Abdul Haq Vidyarthi (whom I knew and had lived with). So we have seen with our own eyes the high standard of persons who were much less than mujaddids. They had a publicly-recognised record of service to Islam, appreciated even by opponents of Ahmadis such as Ataullah Shah Bukhari. Their purity of character and acceptance of prayers was widely acknowledged, beyond just our Jamaat.

    Those are the criteria we have in mind for holy persons who are even less than mujaddids and not appointed by Allah to any office.


  82. Sultani sahib,

    I asked you to please prove your Islamic Scholarship. Write something better than Barahin-e-Ahmadiyya.  In reply You wrote: “I have to restore honor of Islam and Ahmadiyyat, I have to restore honor of Holy Prophet Sallallahu alaihe wa Sallam and Hadharat Imam Mahdi & Masih Alaihissalam, I have to restore honor of Holy Qur’an, Hadith and books of Hadharat Imam Mahdi & Masih Alaihissalam etc.”  

    Sultani sahib, In America to a person like you we say:
    Dude show me the beef!  


  83. October 21st, 2011 at 11:32 am
    From Nasir Ahmad Sultani:

    Dear Zahid Aziz sb.and Rashid sb.
    السلام علیکم ورحمة اللہ وبرکاتہ
                I want to reply you both in one post because subject is the same which I am going to present. I have live contact with Allah Almighty. This is my specialty that I am awarded with Mukaalimah & Mukhaatibah. I am granted the most prominent sign of love of Allah Almighty.
    This is the link where you can see my dreams﴿رویا﴾, manifestations﴿کشوف﴾, revelations﴿الہامات﴾ and conversations with Allah Almighty﴿مکالمہ و مخاطبہ الہیہ﴾. They are more than 100 pages of A4 size.
    http://al-ahmadiyyat.com/official/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/Uss-Raah-k-Musaafir-till-14.07.11.pdf
    This is a miracle that I have no competitor. Nobody has presented word of Allah Almighty as much this. If somebody will come to compete, he will be defeated badly.
     I accept that there were great spiritual persons in Jama’at Ahmadiyya Lahore in present perfect. I respect them all and give due regard to them. I have special affections for Jama’at Ahmadiyya Lahore, because it has not only the best beliefs, it had practical spiritual people in it as well.
                In words of Hadharat Masih & Mahdi Alihissalam they are stories of the past. You must have fresh fruit of Islam with you to present to the world. If not some, you must have one example with you to present. If none of you can say these words of Hadharat Masih & Mahdi Alaihissalam:
    اے سونے والو جاگو کہ وقت بہار ہے
    اب دیکھو آکے در پہ ہمارے وہ یار ہے

    Then I shall say in the words of Hadharat Masih & Mahdi Alaihissalam:

    کیا زندگی کا ذوق اگر وہ نہیں ملا
    لعنت ہے ایسے جینے پہ گر اس سے ہیں جدا
    اس رخ کو دیکھنا ہی تو ہے اصل مدعا
    جنت بھی ہے یہی کہ ملے یار آشنا

    If you see the Holy Qur’an through the light of the books of the Promised Messiah, it is mentioned very well that a Muslim must have live contact with Allah Almighty. Achieving the love and live contact of Allah in this world is the main target for every Muslim and the most prominent sign of the live contact is Mukalimah & Mukhatibah. Most of the members of Jama’at Ahmadiyya Lahore must be able to be called “ صالح” at least. To get this word for you, now it is necessary to accept Mujaddid and Imam of the era. Hadharat Promised Messiah Alaihissalam said:
    اگر اسی قدر مقصود ہوتا جو بعض لوگ سمجھ لیتے ہیں کہ موٹی موٹی بدیوں سے پرہیز کرنا ہی کمال ہے تو انعمت علیھم کی دعا کی تعلیم نہ ہوتی ۔ جس کا انتہاءی اور آخری مقام خدا تعالی کے ساتھ مکالمہ اور مخاطبہ ہے ۔ انبیاء علیھم السلام کا اتنا ہی تو کمال نہ تھا کہ وہ چوری چکاری نہیں کیا کرتے تھے بلکہ وہ خدا تعالی کی محبت ۔ صدق ۔ وفا میں اپنا نظیر نہیں رکھتے تھے ۔ پس اس دعا کی تعلیم سے یہ سکھایا کہ نیکی اور انعام ایک الگ شی ء ہے جب تک انسان اسے حاصل نہیں کرتا اس وقت تک وہ نیک اور صالح نہیں کہلا سکتا ۔ اور منعم علیھم کے زمرہ میں نہیں آتا ۔
    ﴿الحکم ۲۴ﺍجنوری ١۹۰۵ء صفحہ۲ ، تفسیر حضرت مسیح موعود جلد اول صفحہ ۲۸٦﴾
    You might have seen that I have written in my Charter. “Everyone changes a medicine with no effect. But the same person does not change his/her ineffective prayers, ineffective services to religion, ineffective sect of religion or ineffective Jama’at. If your prayers, your services to religion, your sect of religion or your Jama’at are not able to help you to establish your LIVE CONNECTION with Allah Almighty, there must be some or full change. Nowadays there are too many so called leaders of religion. None of them has LIVE CONNECTION with Allah Almighty. If somebody could not establish his own LIVE CONNECTION, how is he/she able to establish others’, and how could he dare to call others?
    ٗ ﻣﻥ ﮐﺎﻥ ﻓﯽ ﻫﺫﻩ ﺍﻋﻣﯽ ﻓﻬﻭ ﻓﯽ ﺍﻻﺧﺭﺓ ﺍﻋﻣﯽ ﻭ ﺍﺿﻝ ﺳﺑﻳﻼ ۔(۱۷: ﺍﻻﺳﺭﺍء:۷۳)
    Whoever is blind in this (world), he will be blind in the Hereafter and the most misled person away from the (right) path.
    اب اسی گلشن میں لوگو راحت و آرام ہے        وقت ہے جلد آو اے آوارگان دشت خار
    اک زما ں کے بعد آءی ہے یہ ٹھنڈی ہوا      پھر خدا جانے کب آویں یہ دن اور یہ بہار


  84. Sultani sahib,
    I am still waiting for your ‘Barahin-e-Sultani’. Please present some scholarly works, before asking people on internet to accept you as the Mujaddid of 15th Islamic century.

    Sultani sahib, if today blogger Ikram makes claim on internet, like you, then i am sure he has more chance to be accepted as Mujaddid of 15th Islamic Hijra by readers for his just writing of ‘Project Rebuttal’. None of your addressee on internet live in your “Qadian” i mean Islamabad, Pakistan, to know you personally.  

    Please remember, Maulana Noor ud Din got attracted to Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad, after reading his Barahin-e-Ahmadiyya.

    Sultani sahib, if you again made your claim without providing Quality Islamic Scholarship, then following your example i.e. without personally interviewing you and examining you and just based on your impression from your posts and website, I would consider that you have a delusional mind.

    Definition of ‘Delusional Disorder–Grandiose Type’:
    Grandiose Type: delusions of inflated worth, power, knowledge, identity, or special relationship to a deity or famous person

    (Ref: DSM IV)


  85. Dear Rashid Sahib.
    Aoa,
    You write to Hazrat Nasir Ahamad Sultani sahib R.A 
    “Please prove your Islamic Scholarship. Write something better than Barahin-e-        Ahmadiyya.”
    Here are some questions raised in my mind regarding your demand to Imamay Wakt HNAS r.a….
    1. Where have you found this criterion that Mujadid of 15th century will be the one who will  first  compete HMGA a.s and  present a better piece of writing than Baraheen e Ahmadia to prove himself Imamay Wakt and better than HMGA as well???????
    2. Do you believe that any of previous Mujadids including next coming after HMGA a.s would be superior to HMGA r.a???
    3. Did HNAS ever claim to be a Mujadid better than HMGA??? Rather he has made it very clear in his post dated October 15th, 2011 at 4:57 p.m  in the following words.
    (Lo and behold on the lines in bold)
    “You must read Al-Wasiyyat and refresh your knowledge. Hadharat Masih Maud Alaihissalam wrote there:
     وہ مقاصد جو کسی قدر ناتمام رہ گءے تھے اپنے کمال کو پہنچتے ہیں۔ 
    It is must be thought that who will complete them? Second Power of Allah will complete them. Second Power of Allah are Hadharat Masih Maud Alaihissalam’s spiritual successors (Mujaddidin) for next era. It must be kept in mind that none new Mujaddidin can replace Hadharat Masih Maud Alaihissalam. They will be his true followers.” 
    http://ahmadiyya.org/WordPress/2011/06/13/qadiani-khalifa-v-friday-june-10-2011-sermon-on-subject-of-mujaddid/#comment-6240
    Its, my humble request to please review your demand in the light of  questions raised by me.
    Jazakallah


  86. In the first twenty pages or so of Haqiqat-ul-Wahy, Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad has written about people who receive revelation, dividing them into three levels: those who have no connection with Allah, those who have some connection with Allah, and those who have a full connection with Allah. He has explained the qualities that are necessary to be found in people who are at the third level. It is instructive to read that.

    He has also strictly warned people, addressing also his own followers, against believing that they have reached a high spiritual stage just because of having true dreams and revelations. He cautions them in the strongest terms that their perceived revelations may be the outcome of their own low desires, and not from Allah.

    I have collected three examples here from original issues of Badr:

    Letter published in Badr, 21 November 1907.

    Statements in Badr, 14th February and 3 October 1907.   
      


  87. Sultani sahib and Khalifa Meer sahib:

    If only criterion is ‘Communication with God’ to make claim of divine appointment. Then i do not have to go to someone thousands of miles far from me. I personally know people here in USA claiming of in communication with God. They even communicated with God in my presence. If you visit US, may be i can arrange your visit with them when they will be having ‘Conversation with God’ right in your presence.  


  88.  
    In general, it is somewhat of a put off when merits of a person’s claim are judged on the criteria “my dad can beat your dad” or who is superior, this or that.

    None matches the standards of Prophet Muhammad. Thanks goodness the world saw his standards in whose life we find the proofs of moral laws trumping the material laws of Allah. Battle of Badr is one such example out of many many examples that he showed to us. His life reflects “God moments” for any student of history. Muhammad was a necessity for humanity else it was impossible to believe in a non-material God.

    Similarly, Mujaddids by their very job descriptions are sent for coming generations to experience first hand the the reflections of “Muhammad moment.” Their lives and works are a proof for the coming generations after the Prophet Muhammad that factually there was a person called Muhammad, else legacy of Muhammad might over period deteriorate into mythology.

    Therefore, a Mujaddid restores the plausibility of Muhammad and Allah into actuality for his generation. HMGA’s life and works did that for our times.

    I am not to judge as to who will be Mujaddid after HMGA, but any such claimant for me has to reflect the standards of Muhammad. If someone is only there to reflect a previous Mujaddid, then in my opinion such a person might be great in his own way, but not in a Divine way.
     


  89. October 22nd, 2011 at 9:48 am
    From Nasir Ahmad Sultani:

    Dear Rashid sb.
    السلام علیکم ورحمة اللہ وبرکاتہ
    Let’s come to ‘Baraahin-e-Sultani’. As I have written to you and Mr. Adnan has mentioned in his post that I have no competition with Hadharat Masih & Mahdi Alaihissalam. I am his spiritual son and his true follower like other forth coming Mujaddidin. But never think of it that I have no Baraahin (strong arguments) with me.
     Allah Almighty has approved my name as Nasir Ahmad Sultani. His Ilhaam is: “Nasir Ahmad Sultani Ameer Jama’at Ahmadiyyah”. Do you know meanings of it? It means that you are the person who will serve Jama’at Ahmadiyya as Imam and Ameer. And you are the person who will help Ahmad Sallallahu Alaihi wa Sallam as ‘Sultani’ (belonging to a sovereign and very strong arguments). And you might know ‘Sultani’ is crown witness as well.
    If you believe not in size but in its effects then you might know that a huge size darkness of a big room vanishes against one small size powerful light. Let me show you one example of Baraahins with me.
    You have a huge size religious literature of almost 100 years with you. My claim of Mujaddid is only few months old.  You claim that you have served Holy Qur’an more than others in the past era. The most prominent example of your services of Holy Qur’an is translation and commentary of Maulvi Muhammad Ali sb. You have spent and you are spending lots of money to publish it. You want it to be in every home of the world, at least in every library of the world.
    I am very sorry to say that Maulvi Muhammad Ali sb. could not understand and explain the highest spiritual level of a Muslim, even in his translation of Holy Qur’an. If this claim of mine is proved then where will you store this huge quantity of this translation of Holy Qur’an? If a translation of Holy Qur’an is not able to guide Qur’an’s followers to achieve the highest spiritual level, it must be stored somewhere.
    In Surah Al-Faatihah every Muslim (male, female and gay) prays and asks for ‘انعام’. This ‘انعام’ is a spiritual status which is asked by a Muslim at least in five times Farz, Sunnah and Nafl prayers of the day. Every Muslim will surely ask for (if he knows) the highest status. What is that ‘انعام’?  Hadharat Masih & Mahdi Alissalaam guided us clearly by the light of the Holy Qur’an but Maulvi Muhammad Ali sb. could not explain it in his translation and commentary of the Holy Qur’an and even in his book Al-Nabuwah fil Islam. There are the four statuses granted to those (male, female and gay) that follow properly Allah and His Prophet Sallallahu Alaihi wa Sallam:
    صالحیت، شہادت ، صدیقیت ، نبوت.
    These four statuses are mentioned in verse 70 of Surah Al-Nisa. The highest stauts is نبوت.
                    I want to make it clear that I believe in Khatm-e-Nabuwat. I believe that no Prophet can come after our beloved Holy Prophet Sallallahu alaihe wa Sallam. He was the Last in status and time as well. Hadharat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad Alaihissalam was a Mujaddid not a Prophet. The door of Prophet-hood is shut till the End.
    Maulvi Muhammad Ali sb. believes that the highest status is the status of Siddiqiat and Shahadat, not status of Nabuwat. As he wrote in Al-Nabuwah fil Islam page 118:
    پس یہ ظاہر ہے کہ صدیق اور شہید اعلے سے اعلے مراتب ہیں ۔جن پر کامل مومن پہنچتے ہیں ۔ اور یہ وہ مراتب ہیں جن میں کامل مومن کمالات نبوت پا لیتے ہیں ۔یہ تو ہمیں قرآن کریم سے معلوم ہوا ۔
    He wrote in Bayan-ul-Qur’an vol. 1 page:5 commentary of Surah Al-Fatiha:
                انعمت علیھم میں مقام نبوت کی دعا نہیں ۔ یہاں نبی کا لفظ آ جانے سے بعض لوگوں کو ٹھوکر لگی ہے کہ خود مقام نبوت بھی اس دعا کے ذریعہ مل سکتا ہے اور گویا ہر مسلمان ہر روز باربار مقام نبوت کو ہی اس دعا کے ذریعہ طلب کرتا ہے ۔ یہ ایک اصولی غلطی ہے ۔
    Hadharat Hakam-o-Adal Alahissalam wrote against this opinion:
    چار مراتب کمال ہیں جن کو طلب کرنا ہر ایک ایماندار کا فرض ہے ۔ اور جو شخص ان سے بکلی محروم ہے وہ ایمان سے محروم ہے ۔ یہی وجہ ہے کہ اللہ جلشانہ نے سورة فاتحہ میں مسلمانوں کیلءے یہی دعا مقرر کی ہے کہ وہ ان ہر چہار کمالات کو طلب کرتے رہیں  اور وہ دعا یہ ہے اھدنا الصراط المستقیم صراط الذین انعمت علیھم اور قرآن شریف کے دوسرے مقام میں اس کی تشریح کی گءی ہے ﴿یعنی سورة النساء آیت ۔ ۷۰ ۔ ناقل﴾ اور ظاہر فرمایا گیا ہے کہ منعم علیھم سے مراد نبی اور صدیق اور شہید اور صالحین ہیں  ۔ اور انسان کامل ان ہر چہار کمالات کا مجموعہ اپنے اندر رکھتا ہے
    ﴿تریاق القلوب صفحہ ١۲۵ ، روحانی خزاءن جلد ١۵ صفحہ ۵١٦ ﴾
    Maulvi Muhammad Ali sb. wrote against opinion of Hadharat Masih & Mahdi Alaihissalaam:
    مقام نبوت کے لءے دعا کرنا ایک بے معنی فقرہ ہے اور اسی شخص کے منہ سے نکل سکتا ہے جو اصول دین سے ناواقف ہے
    ﴿بیان القرآن جلد اول صفحہ ٦ تفسیر سورة الفاتحہ﴾
    صدیقیت کا مرتبہ درحقیقت کمال ایمانی کا مرتبہ ہے
    ﴿بیان القرآن جلد اول صفحہ ۳٦۰ تفسیر سورة النساء زیر آیت ۷۰ ﴾
    صالح کے مرتبہ پر ایک مومن کا پہنچ جانا اس سے تو قرآن شریف بھرا پڑا ہے ۔ شہید اور صدیق کے مرتبہ پر پہنچنے پر بھی بہتیری آیات شاہد ہیں ۔۔۔۔۔۔۔۔ لیکن بذریعہ ایمان بذریعہ اطاعت بذریعہ اعمال صالحہ کسی کا نبوت کے مرتبہ  پر پہنچ جانا اس کا ذکر قرآن کریم میں کہیں نہیں ملے گا
    ﴿بیان القرآن جلد اول صفحہ ۳٦١ تفسیر سورة النسا آیت ۷۰﴾
    So, it is proved that if you review these statuses according to the teachings of the Holy Qur’an in light of Hadharat Masih & Mahdi Alaihissalam’s books, you see a great difference.
    All members of Ummat-e-Muslimah used to ask for and a great number of them were granted all of these four statuses. All اولیا ءاللہ (friends of Allah Almighty) of this Ummah were holders of these four degrees (including status of Nabuwat). Especially all great companions of the Holy Prophet Sallallahu alaihe wa Sallam and All Mujaddidin had the status of Nabuwat. The most prominent example which we can present is of the Promised Messiah Alaihissalam. As he wrote:
    یاد رہے کہ بہت سے لوگ میرے دعوے میں نبی کا نام سن کر دھوکہ کھاتے ہیں اور خیال کرتے ہیں کہ گویا میں نے اس نبوت کا دعوی کیا ہے جو پہلے زمانوں میں براہ راست نبیوں کو ملی تھی لیکن وہ اس خیال میں غلطی پر ہیں میرا ایسا دعوی نہیں  ہے بلکہ خدا تعالی کی مصلحت اور حکمت نے آنحضرت صلی اللہ علیہ وسلم کے افاضہء روحانیہ کا کمال ثابت کرنے کیلءے یہ مرتبہ بخشا ہے کہ آپ کے فیض کی برکت سے مجھے نبوت کے مقام تک پہنچایا ۔ اس لءے میں صرف نبی نہیں کہلا سکتا بلکہ ایک پہلو سے نبی اور ایک پہلو سے امتی ۔ اور میری نبوت آنحضرت صلی اللہ علیہ وسلم کی ظل ہے نہ کہ اصلی نبوت ۔ اسی وجہ سے حدیث اور میرے الہام میں جیسا کہ میرا نام نبی رکھا گیا ایسا ہی میرا نام امتی بھی رکھا ہے تا معلوم ہو  ہر ایک کمال مجھ کو آنحضرت صلی اللہ علیہ وسلم کی اتباع اور آپ کے ذریعہ ملا ہے ۔
    ﴿حقیقة الوحی صفحہ ١۵۴ حاشیہ ، روحانی خزاءن جلد ۲۲ صفحہ ١۵۴ ﴾
    He wrote in another book:
    ایک بندہ خدا کا عیسی نام جس کو عبرانی میں یسوع کہتے ہیں تیس ﴿۳۰﴾ برس تک موسی رسول اللہ کی شریعت کی پیروی کر کے خدا کا مقرب بنا اور مرتبہء نبوت تک پہنچا ۔ اس کے مقابل پر اگر کوءی شخص بجاءے تیس برس کے پچاس ﴿۵۰﴾ برس بھی آنحضرت صلی اللہ علیہ وسلم کی پیروی کرے تب بھی وہ مرتبہ نہیں پا سکتا گویا آنحضرت صلی اللہ علیہ وسلم کی پیروی کوءی کمال نہیں بخش سکتی اور نہیں خیال کرتے کہ اس صورت میں لازم آتا کہ خدا کا یہ دعا سکھلانا کہ صراط الذین انعمت علیھم ایک دھوکہ ہے ۔
    ﴿چشمہء مسیحی صفحہ ٦۷ حاشیہ ، روحانی خزاءن جلد ۲۰ صفحہ ۳۸۲ ﴾
    It must be kept in mind that reaching the status of Nabuwat and appointment as a Nabi are quite different things. A woman can reach the status of Nabuwat, (the highest spiritual status) but she is not appointed as Nabiyyah. Allah Almighty kept opened the way to reach the highest status of His nearness and love. Achievement of His nearness and love is the d’être of life of every Muslim. All beloved ones of Allah Almighty are very humble. None of them want to be appointed on any post. None of them want to be appointed as Nabi or Mujaddid. They are happy alone with their beloved Master. They do not want to come out and live in this material world. If Allah Almighty wants He brings them out and gives them any kind of duty like Mujaddid or Nabi. When a person finds the nearness and love of Allah Almighty, naturally he will be awarded with word of Allah Almighty and His Mukaalimah and Mukhatibah as well. The abundance of word of Allah Almighty with his beloved ones containing news of unseen could be called Nabuwat according to the Arabic dictionary. But it is not the formal Nabuwat which was used to be given to the Prophets before Holy Prophet Sallallahu Alaihi wa Sallam.
    If you want to read my challenge given to Jama’at Ahmadiyya Lahore on Oct. 6th 2011 on this topic, see this link:
    http://al-ahmadiyyat.com/official/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/Maqam-e-Nabuwat-Chell.-Jmt.LHR_.pdf
     


  90. Dear Rashid sahib.
    Aoa, 
    You write to HNAS r.a that ” I am still waiting for your ‘Barahin-e-Sultani’. Please present some scholarly works, before asking people on internet to accept you as the Mujaddid of 15th Islamic century. ”
    Now please let me know about some of the scholarly works that were presented by Hazrat Muhammad (s.a.w) before his declaration as Nabi to the people of his age???????????

    If you really want to taste “Baraheen-e-Sultani” then please read carefully his Mukalima-o- Mukhatiba under the title of “Us Raah Key Mussafir http://al-ahmadiyyat.com/official/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/Uss-Raah-k-Musaafir-till-14.07.11.pdf” that is continuously going on with  Allah and if you don’t believe in this “Kalam” then please dare to reject Hazrat Nasir R.A by declaring him as a Muftari Alallah and get ready to stand against him and wish the decision from Allah.

    For scholarly works of HNAS r.a please visit  http://al-ahmadiyyat.com . At the other hand read carefully the literature which is going to be produced against LAM (specially the challenges to LAM made by HNAS r.a http://al-ahmadiyyat.com/official/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/Maqam-e-Nabuwat-Chell.-Jmt.LHR_.pdf) and the scholar of your Jamat, respected Mr.Zahid Aziz sahib. An honest person can easily judge that how much weak the arguments are made by you and Mr.Zahid Aziz sb as Mr.Zahid himself accepted the defeat in his post October 20th, 2011 at 3:16 pm in the following words…
    “It is true that none of us can claim to have the level of “live contact with Allah” that you are challenging us about.”(Post October 20th, 2011 at 3:16 pm by Mr.Zahid Aziz)

    In next lines you further write that ” Sultani sahib, if today blogger Ikram makes claim on internet, like you, then i am sure he has more chance to be accepted as Mujaddid of 15th Islamic Hijra by readers for his just writing of ’Project Rebuttal’.

    Well Mr.Rashid!!!the opponents of HMGA also strongly believe about their spiritual leaders  that althogh they were not Mujadids, but they were really deserved to be Mujadids as compare to HMGA. If you don’t believe then no need to go far away. Just please ask to some followers of the recent so called scholar, Tahir ul Qadri sb about it. At the other hand  they will surely also present you “Baraheenay Qadri ” as well, and will say to you that, as you are not satisfied by Baraheen and Ejazaay  Qadri , exactly like this we are also not satisfied by Baraheenay Ahamadia. They believe him a Mujadid who don’t need any declaration to be a Mujadid, because in their point of view it is very clear by his scholarly works that can only be done by a Mujadid…At the other hand they totally reject HMGA with his Baraheeny e Ahmadiaa by calling him Kafir (Naooz Billah).

    Some people also raise the question that if HMGA was really a miraculous person , appointed by Allah and a great scholar, then why don’t at least the great scholars of today get impressed by him? Why don’t even only a single state or King of state get impressed and accept him openly????.

    Further you write,
    “None of your addressee on internet live in your “Qadian” I mean Islamabad, Pakistan, to know you personally.”
    First of all I will request you to please  avoid this typical style of so called Mullahs.
    Secondly, how can you claim like this??? . We are here alhamdolilah who know HNAS personally. At the other hand please read carefully that letter which was written to his relatives and the persons who know HNAS even from his birth.
    http://al-ahmadiyyat.com/official/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/Open-Letter-to-Relatives.pdf

    Thirdly, why don’t the recent scholars like Dr.Zakir Naik, Javed Ahamad Ghamadi, Tahirul Qadri get attracted like Hazrat Noorudin r.a by Baraheen- e- Ahmadia (as you said) and why Batalvi became the worst enemy of HMGA even after delivering a great review on Baraheen???.

    Fouthly, it is absolutely true that Baraheen e Ahamdia is one of the great master pieces of HMGA but at the other hand it is also a fact that there are a large number of scholars who reject it in highly worst manners and make a laugh on it. Even some of the people of HMGA’s age were not agreed on writing the Baraheen e Ahmadiay because there was no need of such a book, as a large number of books had already been written by “Aslaf” on the same topics. That’s whay it  was the wastage of time in their eyes.

    Fifthly, did Hazrat Noor ud din r.a , Hazrat Basharat Ahmad sb r.a, Hazrat Muhmad Ali sb r.a, Hazrat Sahib Zada Abdul Latif Shaheed sb r.a, Harzrat Vidyyarthee sb r.a, and other great followers know HMGA personally before accepting him.????

    Further you write,
    “Please remember, Maulana Noor ud Din got attracted to Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad, after reading his Barahin-e-Ahmadiyya.”

    Again let me know the name of that scholarly piece of works of Hazrat Muhammad s.a.w by which the four caliphs were being attracted????  

    According to my knowledge Hazrat Noor ud Din r.a  was attracted by an advertisement of Mukalima o Mukhatiba in the form of challenge, which was writen on a piece of a paper, separated from some copy of Baraheen, which he received in an accidental way.

    Every body who accepted HMGA was attracted by his claim and arguments on the truth of his claim among those the great one argument was his Mukalima and Mukhatiba itself and challenges to the opponents who never ever could break even a single argument of this Greatest Mujadid r.a and now same is the case today  with you and every opponent of HNAS r.a, a Greatest follower of HMGA r.a.

    My dear brother, Hazrat Nasir Ahmad Sultani is not just only a calimant of Mujadadiat rather he has blessed with unbreakable arguments in the form of  his Mukalima o Mukhatiba and chellenges to the whole world including great LAM about which he writes in his post!!!
    “There was one and only Jama’at (Jama’at Ahmadiyya Lahore) which was left and able to have live contact with Allah Almighty. But I am very sorry to say that I could not find any person there as well. I have challenged your Ameer sb. and your Jama’at, but there is no response. This challenge is still there, if someone has ability to accept it.”  (October 19th, 2011 at 6:25 am From Nasir Ahmad Sultani) 

    This is “Baraheenay Sultani” by which even the LAM is affraid.

    At last you write,
    “Sultani sahib, if you again made your claim without providing Quality Islamic Scholarship, then following your example i.e. without personally interviewing you and examining you and just based on your impression from your posts and website, I would consider that you have a delusional mind.”

    Well dear.Rashid sb, now if you don’t proceed honestly then I would consider that you don’t have the ability to identify the truth. And you have the same typical mind as are of the so called Mullahs.
     


  91. My reason for objection to Nasir Sultani sahib claim of Mujaddid of 15th Hijra Century.

    I have no objection if I am told that Nasir Sultani sahib is a good Muslim. He offers his prayers regularly, fasts regularly etc. I will accept he is a good person, unless I have reason that is contrary.

    But I object to Nasir Sultani sahib claim of Mujaddid-hood. Times we are living in are tough for Muslims of the world in general. But they are extraordinary tough for Ahmadis of Lahore Ahmadiyya Movement, especially in Pakistan. Among Muslims of the world, Ahmadis of LAM are the only people who hold belief there will be Mujjadid of 15th Hijra century, and time is right for his arrival, and they are eagerly waiting for him. In such condition LAM-Ahmadis are very vulnerable to any con artist. Especially those LAM-Ahmadis are more vulnerable, to any such fraudsters, who lack knowledge to critically analyze claim of any claimant of 15th Islamic Hijra century.

    Problem with Nasir Sultani sahib is that he is demanding LAM-Ahmadis to except him without merit. But it is very odd to read his claim and demand without any merit. On top of that we are repeatedly reminding him that he needs to prove his merit before expecting us to accept him. But he does NOT bother or seems to register what we are saying to him.   

    Remember, Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad sahib had to face criticism from native Arabic speakers that his Arabic language diction and grammar was weak. Well Allah SWT helped him and coached him (he was taught roots of all Arabic words overnight in dream/ vision whatever it was).

    Sultani sahib, please produce some scholarly works. So, that LAM-Ahmadis, including myself, get reason to be impressed by you. If you keep persisting LAM-Ahmadis, the way you’re doing now, to accept you as the awaited Mujaddid, and fail to register what we are saying, then I will think of you as totally mentally deranged person who has no capacity to even listen to what others are saying.


  92. Adnan Meer sahib writes:

    Mr. Zahid himself accepted the defeat in his post October 20th, 2011 at 3:16 pm in the following words…

    “It is true that none of us can claim to have the level of “live contact with Allah” that you are challenging us about.”(Post October 20th, 2011 at 3:16 pm by Mr. Zahid Aziz)

      
    I re-affirm what I wrote above. You may recall that Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad sahib has instructed his followers that they should far prefer to be defeated by telling the truth, since this pleases Allah, rather than win by false means.

    I also referred in my subsequent post to several statements by Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad sahib regarding the criteria for persons who actually receive revelation that can be relied upon as being from Allah as opposed what a person considers to be his revelation but is really the outcome of his desires.


  93. @Sultani Sahib:  You pointed out some aspects of Maulana Muhammad Ali’s (MMA) translation which are already known to this Jamaat members. Lets not forget that MMA Sahib only translated and commented on Quran and did not write a Quran. You stated about MMA “I am very sorry to say that Maulvi Muhammad Ali sb. could not understand and explain the highest spiritual level of a Muslim, even in his translation of Holy Qur’an.” Question to you – Have you attained that level yourself, else it is merely a theoretical discussion.
     
    HMGA sahib is quite clear in when he instructs that when one prays – 1:7. The path of those on whom You have bestowed (Your) blessings… then one has to ask for the highest blessings and success that any man has ever achieved which is none but Muhammd PBUH. No sane Muslim will pray for Prophethood of Muhammad but only for the blessings and successes achieved by Muhammad that were fruition of his prayers coupled with action. These are no novel ideas for this Jamaat. These were taught by our elders right from our childhood. No brainer here.
     
    Once again, lets not forget that HMGA is the starting point for our Jamaat and not the end. And neither is MMA or any other. The end point is what was discussed in para above. In “Usool-e-Islam Ki Philosophy” which is HMGA’s landmark work, he identifies three levels of spiritual evolution i.e. Nafs-e-Amaara, Lawama and Muthmaina. As a case in point, Kamaluddin takes it even further. He identifies seven levels Al-Islam by Khawaja Kamal-ud-din, The Woking Muslim Mission and Literary Trust, The Shah Jehan Mosque, Woking, England, p. 4-5.]:
     
    The ‘Commanding’ (Ammarah) – Animal within the man
    12:53. `Yet I do not hold myself to be free from weakness, for human nature is surely prone to enjoin evil, except on whom my Lord has mercy. My Lord is of course Protector (against sins), Ever Merciful.’

    The ‘Self-accusing’ (Lawwama)
    75:2. And I swear by the self-reproaching soul (at the doing of an evil deed…).
     
    The ‘Inspired’ (Mulhima)
    91:8. Then He revealed to it (– the soul, the ways of) its evil and its righteousness
     
    The ‘At Rest’ (Mutmainna)
    89:27. (As for the person who has been blessed with a contented and peaceful mind He will say to him,) `O you soul at peace!
     
    The ‘Pleased with God’ (Radziah) & Pleasing to God (Mardziyyah)
    89:28. `Come back to your Lord well-pleased with Him and He well-pleased with you.
     
    The ‘Perfected’ (Kamilah)
    91:7. And the (human) soul and That (Mighty Lord) Who made it perfect,
     
    By expanding from three to seven stages, Kamaluddin becomes no Mirza Ghulam Ahmad. Instead he becomes a fruition of prayers of HMGA for AAIIL and his own prayers for himself.
     
    I expect more from a Mujaddid than unnecessary and unwarranted challenges. I expect some track record and solutions. Else, this discussion is soon going to deteriorate into how many angels can dance on a pinhead.


    @Adnan Meer Sahib: Your drawing of parallels between between Muhammad PBUH and Sultani Sahib is comparing apples and oranges. How could have Muhammad produced a book before Quran? He was plain illiterate. He did not even write Quran with his own hand. But lets not forget, he was a prophet in the making. He was already Sadiq and Amin. His credentials to be a Prophet were already established. Can Sultani Sahib devoid of any scholarly work make such a claim for himself. I have heard (and I could be wrong) that he has already served Khatam-e-Nabuwat deniers in Rabwah. Was he on their payroll too? Muhammad was no idolater before his prophethood. When he addressed Makkans with a hypothetical question that will they believe if he told them that an army was ready to pounce from behind the hill? They all replied in unison – YES! This is the standard of a Divine, soon to be declared to the world.
     
    I suggest that you please ASAP develop your own website for a blog discussion. Then you will be exposed firsthand to all kinds of feedback and criticism from the world. This blog site cannot carry your burden. Remember the burden of proof is on Sultani Sahib himself. Please do not setup AAIIL for his disproof. Good luck in your endeavors. This Jamaat thrives on written works of its founder and elders. Once your website and publications reach a certain threshold of originality and merit, rest assured this Jamaat will flock to a Mujaddid and there will be no stopping 110:2. And you see people thronging in to the fold of the Faith of Allâh. Till then – Assalam-o-Alaikum.


  94. October 23rd, 2011 at 12:45 pm
    From Nasir Ahmad Sultani:

    Dear Zahid Aziz sb and Rashid sb.

     السلام علیکم ورحمة اللہ وبرکاتہ

    I shall not leave any of your questions or objections unanswered. Inshaa Allah.
    I have raised some questions and objections and here are some more of my questions. I hope you will not leave them unanswered.
    Is your Jama’at LAM calling the whole world to the right path?
    Is your Jama’at on the right path?
    Which is the spiritual thing which your Jama’at has given you but none of the other Jama’ats or religions of the world has?
    What is your goal which your Jama’at has told you to achieve spiritually?
    Is anyone of your Jama’at members achieved that goal?
    Who is that person or persons?
    I hope you will decorate your answers with the references of the Holy Qur’an and Books of Hadharat Promised Messiah & Mahdi Alaihissalam.


  95. October 23rd, 2011 at 5:21 pm
    From Mohammed Iqbal:

    Has God forgotten to send a Mujaddid at the turn of the century and when he remembered to do so after more than 30 years, he hurriedly sent four or five of them instead of the usual one?


  96. Dear Sultani sahib, assalamu alaikum.

    My answer to all these questions (right path, goal, etc.) can be found in the three lengthy statements of Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad that I have already uploaded in the original and given links to in my comments above.

    Letter published in Badr, 21 November 1907.

    Statements in Badr, 14th February and 3 October 1907.

    Now I have added a fourth statement: Statement in Al-Badr, May 1904.

    Below I translate extracts from these. He is instructing his own followers in these statements.

    Letter in Badr, 21 November 1907:

    “Your real aim should be that you attain to the state of obedience to the Divine commandments in accordance with the teachings of the Quran, achieve purification of the soul, have the love of God and His greatness dominating your heart, and hate sin. God also has taught the same prayer: ‘Guide us on the right path, the path of those upon whom You have bestowed favours’. Here God has not asked you to pray that you may receive revelation, but rather that you attain the right path, the path of those who, in the end, receive the favour of God. It is not for a man to wish to receive revelation, nor does it give him any kind of merit. In fact, revelation is the act of God, not the good deed of man for which he can expect reward. …”

    Al-Badr, 8-16 May 1904 (Malfuzat, v. 6, p. 434-436):

    “A young man told of some of his dreams and revelations. When he had finished, the Promised Messiah said:

    I say to you as an exhortation, that you must fully bear in mind that you must not rely on these dreams and revelations, but perform good deeds. Many revelations and dreams are like fruit on trees which falls down after a few days and nothing remains. The real aim and purpose is to establish a true and sincere connection with Allah, with devotion and fidelity, which cannot be attained by mere dreams …

    Abraham used to receive much revelation, but the Quran doesn’t mention it anywhere. Instead it says that “Abraham was he who fulfilled commandments” and “O Abraham, You have fulfilled the vision; thus do We reward the doers of good”. This is what a man ought to attain. Without these, there is nothing to be gained by having dreams and revelations. A believer always keeps his eye on good deeds …

    There have been many people who had dreams and revelations but their end was not good because it [a good end] depends on the ability to do good deeds. …

    The believer should hold correct beliefs and perform good deeds. His energy and effort should be devoted to pleasing Allah and being faithful to Him.”

    Badr, 14th February 1907:

    “I [the diarist] said that a young Ahmadi here relates his revelations….

    He [Hazrat Mirza sahib] said:

    ‘This is a great trial. I believe that unless there are repeated, clear signs accompanying the revelation, it is a very serious sin and haram [forbidden] even to mention revelations. … My experience with all such persons is that in the end they are destroyed. They don’t think about their deeds, they don’t look at what kind of connection their hearts have with Allah, but they are embroiled in these revelations. …

    They should seek forgiveness of Allah and refrain totally from these things. Otherwise, they should bear in mind that they are in a very dangerous position. God will never ask anyone about their revelations….’

    He [Hazrat Mirza sahib] spoke very passionately, using words of strict instruction.”
     


     
    So that is what we preach to people and try to do ourselves: hold correct beliefs, do good deeds sincerely out of love for Allah, refrain from sins, and develop a connection with Allah through prayer and fasting, done with the mind and the heart, and not as a mechanical ritual.

    I have known many persons in our Jamaat who were established on a high level of doing good and refraining from evil. As I said before, they were widely respected by other Muslims, including even opponents of our Jamaat.


  97. Nasir Sultani sahib,
    Please start your own discussion forum/blog and i will answer your questions there.
     Bye.  


  98. October 24th, 2011 at 6:35 am
    From Nasir Ahmad Sultani:

    Dear Rashid sb.
    السلام علیکم ورحمة اللہ وبرکاتہ
    Ok! Come on my site’s discussion forum. http://www.al-ahmadiyyat.com
     


  99. October 24th, 2011 at 7:36 am
    From Nasir Ahmad Sultani:

    Dear Zahid Aziz sb.
    السلام علیکم ورحمة اللہ وبرکاتہ
    Do you want to discuss on my site’s discussion forum as well? or may I post my answers for you here on LAM blog?
     


  100. October 24th, 2011 at 7:44 am
    From Nasir Ahmad Sultani:

    Dear Ikram sb.
    السلام علیکم ورحمة اللہ وبرکاتہ
    I agree with you that your blog might not carry my burden. It is too difficult to face realities which are going to come in front of you. Would you like to come on my site’s discussion forum. http://www.al-ahmadiyyat.com


  101. Dear Sultani sahib, assalamu alaikum

    I have made my position abundantly clear on this blog in my responses to you. Everyone can judge from those. I don’t have the time to indulge in other people’s forums.


  102. October 24th, 2011 at 12:38 pm
    From Nasir Ahmad Sultani:

    Dear Members of Lahore Ahmadiyya Movement
    السلام علیکم ورحمة اللہ وبرکاتہ
    All of you are invited for discussion on my blog.
    جزاکم اللہ احسن الجزاء
     


  103. Challenge to Mr.Rashid,a member  of LAM to break our arguments. If he doesn’t break them then surely will be considered a defeated person.
    My dear Rashid Sb,
    Aoa,
    You write,
    “Sultani Sahib, please produce some scholarly works. So, that LAM-Ahmadis, including myself, get reason to be impressed by you. 
    At the other hand you have written about HNAS r.a in your previous post ( June 16th, 2011 at 9:43 am ).
    ” Without knowing about him, his life, his thoughts, his writings, and mission, I would say: He can NOT be a Mujaddid. My reason is simple: He does NOT qualify to be a Mujaddid. My reason behind my reason: He came in Pakistan “.
    Very strange brother,really very strange. I wish that may Allah help you to understand taht how much contradictory views you have.
    If you have already decided to reject a  person without knowing about him, his life, his thoughts, his writings, and mission then why are you demanding this and that from him???????
    In other words when you have found a solid and undoubted reason of rejecting him that is (“He came in Pakistan”) then why are you asking for the reason to be impressed by him as you write “Sultani sahib, please produce some scholarly works. So, that LAM-Ahmadis, including myself, get reason to be impressed by you.”
    Now I would like to comment shortly and precisely on some of your views step by step after quoting an Ayahs from Quran.
    And Muhammad is but a messenger—–messengers have already passed away before him. If then he dies or is kille , will you turn back upon your heels? And he who turns back upon his heels will do no harm at all to Allah(CH 3,verse 143).
    And some you gave the lie to others you would slay.(CH 2:Verse 88)
     You say that,” He can NOT be a Mujaddid. My reason is simple: He does NOT qualify to be a Mujaddid. My reason behind my reason: He came in Pakistan. For Mujaddid to complete his mission, he first has to physically survive and be alive. In current Pakistani environment Sultani sahib may NOT live long. If Mullah-Mafia comes to know about his existence, I am afraid he will be eliminated.”
    You mean if Allah sends a Mujadid in Pakistan then you will not accept him and challenge Allah’s will and decision just because of it that Allah will be unable to save his Mamoor (Naooz u Billah) in this case. And in this case Naooz u Billah Allah will be surely unaware of this fact which you disclosed above that “For Mujaddid to complete his mission, he first has to physically survive and be alive. In current Pakistani environment Sultani sahib may NOT live long. If Mullah-Mafia comes to know about his existence” .
    You mean that Mullah Maffia will defeat the Allah(Naooz u Billah)???
    You mean that Allah had ever been making mistakes in sending the Prophets to the places where they were killed or from where they have to migrate.
    Do you think that those Prophets had become fail due to their murder ?
    Only a person, even being a Muslim can have these views (as you presented in your post June 16th, 2011 at 9:43 am ) who is ” Naturee” in his nature.
    You say 
    “Even HMGA appreciated that he was living in a country ruled by non-Muslim and just rulers. He was only able to continue his mission, as he was able to physically live.”
    You mean that if there were no just rulers there in HMGA’s time then HMGA would not be able to complete his mission and is killed by Mullah Mafia.???
    What do you say about Hazrat Eesa A.S. Was he sent to the country where the just rulers were waiting for him anxiously???
    At last of your post (October 23rd, 2011 at 12:47 am From Rashid:) you say
     “If you keep persisting LAM-Ahmadis, the way you’re doing now, to accept you as the awaited Mujaddid, and fail to register what we are saying, then I will think of you as totally mentally deranged person who has no capacity to even listen to what others are saying.”
    Quran says “And they say : O thou to whom the Reminder is revealed, thou art indeed mad.”(CH 15: Vrs 7)
    Every opponent of a Mamoore the age had been having the same views like you.
    You will think Imamay wakt HNAS a mentally deranged person ( Naoozbillh) if he doesn’t meet your’s self made standards, but it will be a very little thing as compare to Firon views about Moosa A.S as he considered Hazrat Moosa A.S “Contemptible”(CH 43:Verse 52).( Naooz u Billah) when Hazrat Moosa become fail to meet his standard.(Naooz u Billah)
    We have provided the proofs. Read carefully the posts from us specially of HNAS r.a and please remember that Abu Jehl and Batalvi could’nt get the reasons to be impressed from the Greatest Mamoors of their times. And why Abu Jehl and Batalvi become fail to identify the truth,so its your assingnment to search the reasons.


  104. My dear and Respected brother Zahid Aziz sahib writes in his post (October 23rd,  2011 at 6:37 am From Zahid Aziz:) 
    “Adnan Meer sahib writes:
     
    Mr. Zahid himself accepted the defeat in his post October 20th, 2011 at 3:16 pm  in the following words…
     
    “It is true that none of us can claim to have the level of “live contact with  Allah” that you are challenging us about.”(Post October 20th, 2011 at 3:16 pm by  Mr. Zahid Aziz)
     
      
    I re-affirm what I wrote above. You may recall that Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad  sahib has instructed his followers that they should far prefer to be defeated by  telling the truth, since this pleases Allah, rather than win by false means.””
     
    My dear and very very respected Zahid Aziz sahib. I just want ot ask one question  here.
     
    Can a Jamaat which considers it self the best one in the eyes of Allah be defeated by a Muftari Allalah or in other words can a Muftari Allalah or a  delusional minded person win against the Jamat of Allah??????


  105.  
    @Adnan Meer (re: his reply to Rashid): It is laughable that you as a Sahabee (- companion of a supposed Mujaddid) are picking confrontations instead of giving explanations of your message. Are you going to win over a skeptic by using the adjectives of “defeated person” for someone who is a Muslim, reader of Quran and challenges the fundamentals of your claims? Welcome to the world of Islam with all its trials and tribulations of intellect.
     
    You also state – “If you have already decided to reject a person without knowing about him, his life, his thoughts, u writings, and mission then why are you demanding this and that from him.” – It is odd that you are objecting without you having presented any of these attributes of that claimant to the world to begin with. People do not have time to pay attention to every knock at the door. Why don’t you do the world a favor by differentiating for us the other three spin-off Mujaddids of Rabwa besides Sultani sahib and save the audience from this Noah’s deluge of Mujaddids:
     
    Abdul Ghuffar Jamba, Germany, Website: http://www.alghulam.com/
    Zafrullah Doman, Mauritius, website: http://jaam-international.org/indexeng.htm
    Munir Ahmad Azam, Mauritius, website: http://www.jamaat-ul-sahih-al-islam.com/jusai_files/home.htm
     
    We Muslims have a dilemma. There are four claimants to the office of Mujaddid above. There are too many to choose from. Whom to accept and whom to reject? At least for AAIIL it is very simple. They all were deniers of Khatam-e-Nabuwat of Prophet Muhammad. Solution – Reject them all, unless proven otherwise. Burden of credibility is them not AAIIL.

    You mock a simple request from your audience – “Sultani sahib, please produce some scholarly works. So, that LAM-Ahmadis, including myself, get reason to be impressed by you.” – Now what is wrong with this request. Please enlighten us all.

    In order to put your audience in an unwarranted guilt you throw Quran at them. You call them Abu-Jahl and Batalvi. Again you are comparing apples and oranges. Abu-Jahl is father of ignorance because he was a lifetime witness to piety and truthfullness of Muhammad PBUH. He also had the Quran in front of him that he rejected. Same can be said about Batalvi’s rejection of HMGA despite the volumes of works of the latter. What do you have to show for Sultani sahib, but a few pages and a life time of service of Rabwa Khalifas. Please give us a break.
     
    You quote Quran – And Muhammad is but a messenger—–messengers have already passed away before him. If then he dies or is kille , will you turn back upon your heels? And he who turns back upon his heels will do no harm at all to Allah(CH 3,verse 143). – But, you fail to recognize the context of the above verse. This verse is about lifetime pristine performance of a Divine, unlike a few moments of claim of Sultani sahib to whom it does not apply.

    You reject a secular argument given to you – “He can NOT be a Mujaddid. My reason is simple: He does NOT qualify to be a Mujaddid. My reason behind my reason: He came in Pakistan. For Mujaddid to complete his mission, he first has to physically survive and be alive. In current Pakistani environment Sultani sahib may NOT live long. If Mullah-Mafia comes to know about his existence, I am afraid he will be eliminated.” – Factually you should be thankful for such a suggestion and plan your mission accordingly. Please do not be a victim of your own ill planning.
     
    Further, you mock the suggestion – “For Mujaddid to complete his mission, he first has to physically survive and be alive. In current Pakistani environment Sultani sahib may NOT live long. If Mullah-Mafia comes to know about his existence.” – Then you zealously respond by stating “You mean that Mullah Maffia will defeat the Allah(Naooz u Billah)?” – You remind me of the movie “Patton” in which the main character the general himself addressed his troops and states “No son _ _ _ can win the war by dying for his country. You only win the war if you make other son _ _ _ die for his country.” Please take advice and be wise. Its not your life. It is Sultani sahib’s well being that is of concern. But, by then you will be free to follow any of the other three claimants above.

    You further mock another practical example from recent history – “Even HMGA appreciated that he was living in a country ruled by non-Muslim and just rulers. He was only able to continue his mission, as he was able to physically live.” – You totally missed the point when of what you state in your response and when you failed to acknowledge the needed safety, justice, stability and freedom of speech that British provided to it subjects, not out of love for HMGA or Islam, but that’s how it was under their rule. It was for these very reasons that Muslims migrated to Ethiopia and Medina.

    You read history quite superficially when you state – “What do you say about Hazrat Eesa A.S. Was he sent to the country where the just rulers were waiting for him anxiously???” – If you are locked in Palestine then history is witness to the failure of mission of Jesus. He only converted a handful before he himself ended up on the cross. He then had to escape to complete his mission in Kashmir. If one uses standards of Muhammad PBUH, then Jesus is a failure in both Christian and secular history. Look for yourself for what happened to his message which soon decayed into trinity, monkery, the great unwashed, celibacy, witch burning, crusades, anti-science, colonization, exploitation, slavery, capitalism and so on. As to what he preached in Kashmir is lost in history too.

    Mr. Meer, you are using Quran in the manner of a poetry contest in that as long as a verse quoted rhymes with the topic, it has to be quoted. You quote – “And they say : O thou to whom the Reminder is revealed, thou art indeed mad.”(CH 15: Vrs 7) and then rhyme with your statement – “Every opponent of a Mamoore the age had been having the same views like you.” And you then allude to Firon (Pharaoh) in an effort to make a case of Sultani sahib.

    The above verse is part of a body of general principles about the Divine Appointees. What you failed to read in Quran are the others pieces of the same principles that Sultain sahib does not match:
     
    36:1. Yâ Sîn – O perfect man (Muhammad)! 36:2. I call to witness the perfect Qur’ân full of (convincing proofs and) wisdom. 36:3. (That) you are indeed one of the Messengers, 36:4. (Standing) on the right and straight path– For Muhammad, Quran is a proof and witness. For HMGA it was his Braheens and other works. What is there for Sultani sahib to show?

    2:151. Just as (the Ka`bah is a means to your guidance so,) We have sent to you a great Messenger from among yourselves… One thing is quite clear, Sultani sahib is not from us. We do not know him. The only thing we know is that he is one of the four Mujaddids from Rabwah Jamaat.
     
    6:20. Those whom We have given this perfect Book recognise him (– the Prophet Muhammad) as they recognise their own sons… Again, we do not recognize Sultani sahib. He never lived amongst us i.e. AAIIL. He remained associated with Rabwah. People know Ghamdi more than him.
     
    9:128. (People!) certainly, there has come to you a Messenger from among yourselves; – Once again Sultani sahib is not from us or general body of Muslims.

     
    10:16. …I had indeed lived among you a (whole) lifetime before this (claim to Prophethood. Was not my truthfulness undisputed?). Will you not then refrain (from opposing me)?’ Sultani sahib again fails this test. He never lived amongst us a whole lifetime before his claim.

    68:1. The ink – stand and the pen and all that they (the owners of the pen – the scholars) write, bear witness (to the fact that), 68:2. By the grace of your Lord you are not a mad man at all. – Sultani sahib, are you listening? Ink stand and the pen i.e. your books and the scholars who read your books should bear witness to your claim. Besides Muhammad, HMGA passes this test with flying colors.
     
    81:22. And that this compatriot of yours (– Muhammad) is not at all mad. 81:23. And he has most surely seen himself (shining in the resplendence of his own light) in the clear horizon (– in the remotest corners of the world). 81:24. And he is not at all niggardly, nor a forgerer in disclosing the hidden realities – Sultani Sahib, you need to disclose hidden realities like Muhammad PBUH, HMGA and others.

    Many more standards of a Divine could be quoted from Quran, but I stop here. The argument is not that AAIIL rejects the claimant of a Mujaddidiat. The argument is that the Mujaddid has not proven himself to be a Divine yet.

    P.S. Every assailant in the beginning could be a potential Umar-bin-Khattab and Khalid-bin-Walid of the future, provided that the Divine prays for his assailants to begin with.
     
    Assalam-au-Alaikum.


  106. Mr Ikram,
    Aoa,
    Please read carefully the wording of respected Mr.Zahid Aziz sahib in reply to HNAS r.a
    “ It is true that none of us can claim to have the level of “live contact with Allah” that you are challenging us about.”(Post October 20th, 2011 at 3:16 pm by Mr.Zahid Aziz)
    and you write to HNAS r.a
     “Have you attained that level yourself, else it is merely a theoretical discussion.”
    In reply i qoute here HNAS’s own words
    “I have live contact with Allah Almighty. This is my specialty that I am awarded with Mukaalimah & Mukhaatibah. I am granted the most prominent sign of love of Allah Almighty.
    This is the link where you can see my dreams﴿رویا﴾, manifestations﴿کشوف﴾, revelations﴿الہامات﴾ and conversations with Allah Almighty﴿مکالمہ و مخاطبہ الہیہ﴾. They are more than 100 pages of A4 size.
    http://al-ahmadiyyat.com/official/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/Uss-Raah-k-Musaafir-till-14.07.11.pdf
    This is a miracle that I have no competitor. Nobody has presented word of Allah Almighty as much this. If somebody will come to compete, he will be defeated badly.”
    And look that how the true was his sentence 
     “If somebody will come to compete, he will be defeated badly.”
    because you also like other LAM members have admitted worse defeat in your post in these words
    “This blog site cannot carry your burden”.(October 23rd, 2011 at 10:29 am )
    It is proved clearly that you have no arguments and now want to run away.


  107. Dear Adnan Meer sahib, assalamu alaikum
    First, thank you for your politeness and courtesy towards me.

    You ask: “Can a Jamaat which considers it self the best one in the eyes of Allah be defeated by a Muftari Allalah or in other words can a Muftari Allalah or a delusional minded person win against the Jamat of Allah?”

    We have not been defeated vis-a-vis Sultani sahib. What I said is that we don’t have the highest level of contact with Allah that he suggests we ought to have. But that doesn’t mean that he is established on that level!

    Please note that I clearly mentioned the high spiritual grades attained by many of our Lahore Ahmadiyya elders, acknowledged even by non-Ahmadis. Even today I can present to you non-Ahmadis who will testify that they know personally that Maulana Abdul Haq Vidyarthi received revelation and prophecies from Allah while staying with them in their houses. But their respect for the Maulana stems much more from his righteous conduct that they observed for years.

    Mere claims to revelation don’t prove any closeness to Allah. I have posted here several writings of Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad on exactly this point.

    What counts wth Allah is for one to show exemplary character under trials and tribulations, make sacrifices, and do service to Islam. If your leader aims to excel in these qualities, then I sincerely hope he is successful and can defeat us.


  108. @Adnan Meer: I am aghast when you quote Sultani sahib – “ This is a miracle that I have no competitor. Nobody has presented word of Allah Almighty as much this. If somebody will come to compete, he will be defeated badly.”
     
    This is kind of exclusivity for God connection used to be claimed by Jews only to which Quran answers with the basics law governing piety:

    4:49. Have you not considered those who assert themselves to be pure? Nay, only Allâh purifies whom He will; and they shall not be treated unjustly, not even a whit.

    Such a claim of monopoly on righteousness by Sultani sahib is direct violation of Quranic injunction. He fails in his own claim. For starters, why don’t you ask him for a “spiritual duels” or “debates” with other three Qadiani Mujaddids out there. Then his claim of victories will be obvious for the whole world to see, not once, nor twice but possibly three times in a row. Keep us updated of “defeats” inflicted, if such “defeats” mean anything to begin with.
     
    You state – “If somebody will come to compete, he will be defeated badly.” – Please grow up. Preaching in terms of victory or defeat is simply childish. Sahabee (-companions) reflect their Master. Abu Bakr, Umar, Usman, Ali and others were ambassadors of highest quality because their Divine teacher was a “Ya Sin” the “perfect man.” Each one of them was trained to rule the world and they did when time came. Similarly, HMGA had his sahabees of the quality that is obvious in the elders of LAM, both in their literary efforts and personal lives. Each one of them was a spiritual leader in his own right after HMGA. What should the world judge about your teacher from your hollow rants?

    Underpinnings of Islam are its secular aspects e.g. physical hygiene, equality of man, equal distribution of wealth, gender neutrality etc. What is the utility of Sultani Sahib’s self serving preaching? Can he produce a “certificate of authenticity” for what he claims to be. The link you provided is simply repackaging of HMGA’s writings. Nothing original to attract someone who has read HMGA and has an open and critical mind with Quran as guidance. Please spare us the Miracles if he as any. We want utility of his claims. Hollow spirituality only goes so far – read this link. There is an economic crisis in the world today. Capitalism is crumbling. There is no hope on the horizon. World is at risk of wars, fragmentation, deprivations, scarcity of food and fresh water. What does Sultani sahib have to say about it. Any solutions? In the words of Khwaja Kamaluddin – “Religion without solution is a myth and fable, and of no consequence to mankind.”[Pillars of Faith in Islam by Khwaja Kamaluddin, p. 16, The Woking Muslim Mission and Literary Trust, The Shah Jehan Mosque, Woking, England ]

    Your concreteness never understood when you were respectfully told – “This blog site cannot carry your burden”.(October 23rd, 2011 at 10:29 am ).” An intelligent person would had taken the cue that this site cannot carry the burden of delusions that you are spreading around. No one can argue against nonsense. Nonsense always believes in its own win. You won!
     
    Then you state – “It is proved clearly that you have no arguments and now want to run away.” Of course you are right. Wisdom dictates one to run away from idiocy.
     
    Piece of advice – You have a long way to go. Preach from ideas not emotions.


  109. October 27th, 2011 at 2:50 am
    From Nasir Ahmad Sultani:

    Dear LAM
    السلام علیکم ورحمة اللہ وبرکاتہ
    Could A Mujaddid easily be competed and defeated by his opponents in presentation of word of Allah Almighty?
    Mr. Ikram of Jama’at Ahmdiyya Lahore says in one of his posts: 
    “@Adnan Meer: I am aghast when you quote Sultani sahib – “ This is a miracle that I have no competitor. Nobody has presented word of Allah Almighty as much this. If somebody will come to compete, he will be defeated badly.”
    This is kind of exclusivity for God connection used to be claimed by Jews only to which Quran answers with the basics law governing piety:
    4:49. Have you not considered those who assert themselves to be pure? Nay, only Allâh purifies whom He will; and they shall not be treated unjustly, not even a whit.
    Such a claim of monopoly on righteousness by Sultani sahib is direct violation of Quranic injunction. He fails in his own claim.”
    Mr. Ikram is aghast. What is his opinion about a Mujaddid whom he will accept?
    When a Mujaddid accepted by Mr. Ikram will be competed and defeated easily, Mr. Ikram will not aghast but people will aghast. An opponent of his Mujaddid will be able to present more word of Allah Almighty than his Mujaddid. What a criterion!
    Any of mentally normal human beings will not accept Mr. Ikram’s this logic. Because if an opponent of a Mujaddid can have more word of Allah and have more contact with Allah, then what is the need of a Mujaddid?
    Everybody must keep in mind that the main duty of a Mujaddid is to help people to develop and maintain their live contact with Allah Almighty.
    Mr. Ikram did not consider thoughtfully the verse 4:14 as well, which he himself presented. My answer is there. It is written there that “Only Allah purifies whom He will”. Who will be purified more? The person who has more contact or the person who has lesser? If a Mujaddid has lesser contact, then definitely he will be purified lesser.
    So the Mujaddid, whom Mr. Ikram will accept, will be purified lesser than his opponents. The Mujaddid whom Mr. Ikram will accept will be competed and defeated easily by his opponents. What a Mujaddid!
    As I have said people of this world will be aghast when Mr. Ikram will accept such Mujaddid.
    What an understanding and presentation of Qur’anic injunction presented by Mr. Ikram!
     


  110. October 27th, 2011 at 6:45 am
    From Nasir Ahmad Sultani:

    Dear LAM
    السلام علیکم ورحمة اللہ وبرکاتہ
    I want to stop writing on your blog. All of you are invited on my blog http://www.al-ahmadiyyat.com. Please stop writing about me on your blog. 


  111. (This comment arrived before the brief one above from Sultani sahib.)

    Lo and behold! This is exactly what I feared and predicted earlier while addressing Sultani sahib. This discussion thread did not take long to deteriorate into senseless polemics of how many angels can dance on a pinhead, the favorite pastime of Christian theologians of dark ages.
     
    Sultani sahib your arguments are purely theoretical theology. Whereas, Quran teaches practicalities of life. Senseless dwelling on “winning” and “defeating” only reflects self-serving claims. For the sake of argument, if you are a Mujaddid and someone rejects you. What do you have to say to that person? Is that person a child of a lesser god?
     
    Sultani sahib, you might be barking up the wrong tree. You should be debating the other three Qadiani Mujaddids mentioned above who claim the same spot as you. Prove them wrong. Why are you entangling with people who have made up their minds for lack of any pre-Mujaddid track record of yours.
     
    Since when have you become the standard to determine “mental normalcy” of others? Are you familiar with DSM-IV? Under what authority you claim yourself to be more “normal” and pure than anyone else. I re -quote:
     
    4:49. Have you not considered those who assert themselves to be pure? Nay, only Allâh purifies whom He will; and they shall not be treated unjustly, not even a whit.
     
    I do not know about you but, I myself constantly beg for mercy of Allah because He is the ultimate One who purifies whom He will. No human, including youself is mentioned in the above verse as source of purification.

     
    You expect others to bow at your altar. Whereas, Quran did not give that facility even to Prophet Muhammad PBUH:
     
    39:3. Beware! Sincere and true obedience is due to Allâh alone. Those who choose others as a patron beside Him (say), `We serve them only that they may bring us near to Allâh in station.’ (It is absolutely wrong.)… [patron includes any entity even Muhammad himself]
     
    You mentioned – “Everybody must keep in mind that the main duty of a Mujaddid is to help people to develop and maintain their live contact with Allah Almighty.” That’s what exactly Pope in Vatican claims. How are you different? What makes you the intermediary?
     
    You are trying to shove down the throat of others your formula. Read the wisdom in the following:
     
    “If I am given a formula, and I am ignorant of its meaning, it cannot teach me anything, but if I already know it what does the formula teach me?” – St. Augustine (354-430 AD), De Magistro ch X, 23. 
     
    In the end, I state:
     
    10:41. And if they reject thee, say: My work is for me and your work for you. You are clear of what I do and I am clear of what you do
     


  112. @Nasir Sahib,

    (This comment arrived before the brief one above from Sultani sahib.)

    Please don’t waste your time in polemics. Write some scholarly book and give some solutions to socio-economic-politico problems faced world wide. Thanks.


  113. Dear Ikram says
    “I am aghast when you quote Sultani sahib – “ This is a miracle that I have no competitor. Nobody has presented word of Allah Almighty as much this. If somebody will come to compete, he will be defeated badly.”
     
    This is kind of exclusivity for God connection used to be claimed by Jews only to which Quran answers with the basics law governing piety:
     
    4:49. Have you not considered those who assert themselves to be pure? Nay, only Allâh purifies whom He will; and they shall not be treated unjustly, not even a whit.”
     
    “Such a claim of monopoly on righteousness by Sultani sahib is direct violation of Quranic injunction.”
    “You state – “If somebody will come to compete, he will be defeated badly.” – Please grow up. Preaching in terms of victory or defeat is simply childish.”
     
    Mr Ikram. 
    Now read carefully the lines from “Zuroorat Tul Imam,Rohani Khazian,Vol 13,pages 496-497″ by HMGA a.s where he is describing his four signs granted to him by Allah and claiming about each of his signs that
     
    “There is no one who can compete it”
     
    and chellenging his opponents not to first believe in his signs,but to compete.
    And in next page he is claiming in these words:
    “due to all of these reasons, I am the Imam of this age and Allah is in my support.And he is standing for me like a sharp sword.And I am informed that who ever will stand against me by cheap means,will become mean and shmefull”. 
     
     
    Now if an opponent of HMGA a.s would object in the same wording here before you that:
     
    “This is kind of exclusivity for God connection used to be claimed by Jews only to which Quran answers with the basics law governing piety:
     
    4:49. Have you not considered those who assert themselves to be pure? Nay, only Allâh purifies whom He will; and they shall not be treated unjustly, not even a whit.”
     
    “Such a claim of monopoly on righteousness by Qadiani sahib is direct violation of Quranic injunction.”
    and Qadiani sahib states that – “who ever will stand against me by cheap means,will become mean and shmefull”.  – 
    Please grow up. Preaching in terms of victory or defeat is simply childish.
     
    then what would be of your answer to him?????
     
    I have a firm believe in, that ,what ever Quran says is truth, but the fact is that you don’t have the ability to quote the Quranic verse in its right place.
    Here are some questions:
    Was’nt it a miracle that HMGA a.s had no competitor in his age.Even don’t have today and no competitor of him will be born till the day of Judgemnet..????
    Was there a person in his age who presented the “Kalam of Allah” more than of  him?
    If some body came to compete HMGA a.s,had he not destroyed or defeated badly like Laikh Ram,Abdullah Atham,Batalvi,Amratsari,Golarvi etc??
     Was he not a Mujadid?
     Don’t a Mujadid be a most purified person of his age. ?
    If a Mujdid is a most purified person of his age then would not  the aspect of purification be included in his claim of Mujadadiat ?
     
    Please read carefully the words ” Nay, only Allâh purifies whom He will” in Ayah which you quoted above.
    Alhamdolilah I have a firm believe in that,
    “HNAS r.a is the person whom Allah has purified and appointed as a  Mujadid of 15th century ”
    not only by my words but also by my actions.I have identified the truth just like as was identified by me almost 16 years before when I accepted HMGS a.s as a Mujadid miraculously after a worst opposition.At that time I was just of 17 years old.
     
    How I became Ahmadi? How I identified  Hadhrat Moulana M.Ali sahib,a ture presenter of HMGA as compare to Mirza Bashir ud din sahib? What were the reasons behind in not joining the Jmaat activities?How Allah encouraged me to leave every thing for Ahmadyyat? How Allah blessed me with the  great victories aginst the worst enemies of HMGA a.s and also of LAM in past? And now how I accepted HNAS r.a as Mujadid,  is a long story which will be soon published on our website inshallah.
     
    Remember my dear Ikram,You really have a solid language to express but don’t have the solid arguments to deliver.
     
    The difference between us is that you consider HNAS r.a falling in “Have you not considered those who assert themselves to be pure” where as I believe that he falls in ” Nay, only Allâh purifies whom He will”.
     
    Jazakallah


  114. Adnan Meer sahib:
     
    Result of lifelong brainwashing of Qadianis is evident from their posts. Qadianis are always under delusion that they always have the most rational arguments and no one can defeat them in debate involving matters of religion. This is the reason when internet forum started around 1999 Qadianis were the first one to jump on them and started challenging Muslims and Lahore Ahmadiyya Movement members. As result of their discussions with LAM members, Qadianis started doubting their Qadiani beliefs. It was not good news for then Qadiani Khalifa 4 Mirza Tahir Ahmad and he categorically ordered his followers to not to indulge in internet discussions with LAM. Then Qadianis focused on other Muslims, and they were using their secret weapon ‘Death of Jesus’. On those forums this  writer kept bring character of Qadiani Khalifa 2 Mirza Mahmud Ahmad. Again Qadianis were stopped by their hierarchy.
     
    Unfortunately, this delusion of being “the best” stays with Qadianis even if they start their own off shoots of Qadiani Jamaat. When these Qadianis are challenged they start passing judgments. Theier thinking is so clouded that they don’t even realize that they are acting at the same time a party to conflict and the judge. I have noticed this kind of behavior in Qadiani claimants of divine appointments, including Nasir Sultani sahib. Now his “khalifa” Adnan Meer sahib writes:
     
    “Remember my dear Ikram,You really have a solid language to express but don’t have the solid arguments to deliver.”
     
    Adnan Meer do you realize that you’re opposing party to Ikram, NOT A JUDGE that you’re giving your judgment “but don’t have the solid arguments to deliver”. Either appoint an impartial judge acceptable to both parties or let the readers decide. YOU’RE NOT THE JUDGE. GET THIS DELUSION OUT OF YOUR HEAD. Please.
     
    Adnan Meer I would highly recommend you to please read definition of ‘Folie a Deux’ (Shared Psychotic Disorder) in DSM-IV.
     
    One good outcome of this thread is that some LAM members, who because of their own longing for arrival of the Mujaddid of 15th Islamic Hijra Century, were taking Nasir Sultani sahib claim seriously got some chance to critically examine Nasir Sultani sahib claim in light of expectations from a Mujaddid, discussed in this tread.

    NOTE:
    Nasir Ahmad Sultani sahib writes ‘Dr.’ (Doctor) before his name. He does NOT hold PhD or MBBS degrees. This deception on his part disqualifies him from any divine appointment.


  115. @Adnan Meer: There is a lot of music in your latest post, but no song. It rhymed but did not ring with the audience. It said a lot without saying anything. It ran without gaining distance. It preached without converting anyone. It had lots of noise without any substance.
     
    Let Quran be its own advocate. It does not need you nor me nor anyone else for its moral laws. Now read the following verses together while keeping in mind that verses in Quran are interlinked and there are no inconsistencies therein:
     
    4:49. Have you not considered those who assert themselves to be pure? Nay, only Allâh purifies whom He will; and they shall not be treated unjustly, not even a whit.[Nooruddin]

    39:3. Beware! Sincere and true obedience is due to Allâh alone. Those who choose others as a patron beside Him (say), `We serve them only that they may bring us near to Allâh in station.’ (It is absolutely wrong.)… [patron includes any entity even Muhammad himself] – [Nooruddin]
     
    As a footnote to 4:49, Muhammad Ali states in his commentary – “These are the priests, doctors of law and monks who demanded blind obedience from their followers, and include such ulama, shaikhs and pirs among the Muslims as well.” I might add to the list – anyone in guise of a Mujaddid devoid of any scholarly and original works.
     
    Meer Sahib you wrote that you recognized the Mujaddid at a tender age of 17 when legally you were a child. Thereafter you have been his follower for 16 years. That means Sultani Sahib has been in his spiritual path for almost 2 decades. His claim of a Mujaddid becomes even more doubtful as to how come he has not been able to produce scholarly work in such a long time. That’s never heard of a Mujaddid before. This demand of the audience is not asking him to split the moon. Apparently, he had been making lots of promises to publish, but did he deliver?
     
    Interestingly, in your eagerness to preach, you blurred the lines between LAM members who briefly hold your hands to the fire of reason and logic based upon Quran, and you retort back as if you are facing Lekhrams and Athams. That’s quite immature and dogmatic. You cannot differentiate between a rightful skeptic, critic, challenger, commentator, analyst and rejector on one hand and preachers of falsehood for their personal gain such as Dowie on the other hand. If you want to see first hand the Lekhrams and Athams of today and want to confront them, then follow this link and join the effort. Additionally, HMGA, a Mujaddid, did not claim exclusivity of piety for himself. He openly respected Hazrat Ghulam Farid of Chachran Sharif for his piety (HMGA letter to Ghulam Farid sahib, pg 17)

    You try to create guilt by association of LAM with HMGA and quote him. Issue of Sultani sahib is fundamentally irrelevant to HMGA’s legacy. Please stop using HMGA as a crutch to advocate for Sultani sahib. Let Sultani sahib stand or fall on his own merit. But, to do so might be difficult for you as your posts indicate that for you HMGA or Sultani Sahib might be the end. Whereas, on the contrary for LAM, the HMGA, Nooruddin, Muhammad Ali, Kamaluddin, Basharat Ahmad, Abdul Haq Vidyarti, Saeed Ahmed, Manan Omar and many many other greats are the beginning not the end. Each one of them was a writer and a thinker besides carrying his spiritual credentials. These are the fundamental differences between Qadiani and Lahori Jamaats. Your assertions might appeal to your fellow Qadianis who follow but not lead. But the free thinkers of Lahori Jamaat prefer to lead not follow. If you want the ear of Lahoris you must approach them with logic and follow up with moral pragmatism. To them you must quote Quran before any human word, else talk is cheap. This is the secret key to open the locks to LAM. The moment you do so, you might find Lahoris singing with you rather than shouting you down. In the end, I repeat, the burden of proof is on Sultani Sahib alone, and not on LAM.

    May Allah be the guide to all.

    P.S. Ignore the first paragraph above. It was only to stir you. I apologize for it. Such posts only take away the focus of the original discussion. It was only an effort to train you for your own blog which you are starting.


  116. Mr.Rashid sahib writes in his post on our website(http://al-ahmadiyyat.com/official/?p=1215) “Dr. Zahid Aziz kept editing my posts with these criteria. That’s the reason I asked you start your own blog, so that I can post what I think about you.”
    And now he he writes in his post

    “Either appoint an impartial judge acceptable to both parties or let the readers decide.
    October 28th, 2011 at 2:14 am” 

    So my dear readers lo and behold!! that Mr.Rashid him self has accepted that his meaningless arguments were not acceptable even by his own jamat member, respected Mr.Zahid Aziz shib thats why he asked us to start our own blog.

     


  117. Mr.Rashid says
    “Nasir Ahmad Sultani sahib writes ‘Dr.’ (Doctor) before his name. He does NOT hold PhD or MBBS degrees. This deception on his part disqualifies him from any divine appointment.”

    Your Jamat writes with the names of Hazrat Noorud din r.a and Muhmmad Ali r.a “Molvi or Moulana”.

    Had they Hold the degrees of “Molvi or Moulana” with them?.

    Never..Now let me know that where does this deception from LAM stands?


  118. In response to Adnan Meer, the only thing I removed from Rashid Jahangiri’s post was the reference to delusional state of mind and its definition. I am not in a position to either accept or reject this argument. I deleted it as inappropriate, while it may well be true, I don’t know!

    As to our Jamaat writing Maulvi or Maulana for Maulana Nur-ud-Din or Maulana Muhammad Ali, please firstly note that it was the Promised Messiah who always referred to them by such titles. Secondly, these two elders demonstrated their religious scholarship to the world more than sufficiently to be deservant of these titles.


  119. October 28th, 2011 at 6:05 pm
    From Muhammad Ali:

    @Adnan Meer Sahib: Molvi, Moulana, Allama, etc. are words of honour and titles which are given to people of high caliber in our soceity. It is a common tradition here. Necessarily you do not need to have studied from a madrassa for this title. Have you heard name of
    And as far as word “Dr.” is considered, it is not a title but it represents a certain level of education. In westeren countries like Germany it is even a crime if you write word like “Dr.” with your name, if you have not that certain level of education.
    I am not concerned what Mr. Nasir Ahmad Sultani writes with his name. But just for the sake of argument please do not give arguments which have no base. They only make your own case weak if you are able to understand it.
    And one more thing that two wrongs don’t make a right. So please answer the issue which you have been asked. And the reader can decide himself about the weight of both arguments.


  120. aoa,
    Respected M.r Zahid Aziz writes
    “As to our Jamaat writing Maulvi or Maulana for Maulana Nur-ud-Din or Maulana Muhammad Ali, please firstly note that it was the Promised Messiah who always referred to them by such titles. Secondly, these two elders demonstrated their religious scholarship to the world more than sufficiently to be deservant of these titles.”
     
    Absolutely right. But Is your statement acceptable for opponents?????
     
    Once,In some case when a lawyer asked to Hazrat Molvi Noor ud Din r.a that “Are you a molvi” then Hazrat replied “No”and explained it that the lawyer wanted to prove him a lier because he didn’t have the degree of Molvi.
     
    Did Hazrat Noor Ud Din r.a said to him that” I have demonstrated my religious scholarship to the world more than sufficiently to be deservant of this title.
     
     
    You write 
    “I deleted it as inappropriate,”
    That’s it.
     
     
    Lastly,HNAS r.a has demonstrated his medical miracles to a large number of people living in the different countries of the world more than sufficiently to be deservant of the title Dr”.At the other hand he hold’s the licence of R.H.M.P as well.


  121. Dear M.Ali
    In pakistan there is restriction for homoeopaths to write only dr with themselves but they can write Homoeopathic Dr for them .And HNAS r.a clearly mentions this in his visiting card and medical literature.
     
    secondly, Once,In some case when a lawyer asked to Hazrat Molvi Noor ud Din r.a that “Are you a molvi” then Hazrat replied “No”and explained it that the lawyer wanted to prove him a lier because he didn’t have the degree of Molvi.
    He didn’t argue with lawyer like you.
    Now its up to the readers to weight of both arguments and decide.
    Jazakallah


  122.  
    My dear and respected brother Mr.Zahid Aziz sb first wrote in his post that 
    “It is true that none of us can claim to have the level of “live contact with  Allah” that you are challenging us about.”(Post October 20th, 2011 at 3:16 pm by  Mr. Zahid Aziz)
     
    Now he writes in his post
     
    “We have not been defeated vis-a-vis Sultani sahib. What I said is that we don’t have the highest level of contact with Allah that he suggests we ought to have.”(October 25th, 2011 at 5:02 pm )

    Here i want to draw his attention about  a big change in his last statement  as compare to the first.
    “that you are challenging us about” in the first one and  “that he suggests we ought to have” in last one.

    Hope there is no need to further explain. Every body can judge that  whatever he said in his first post has become change now.
     


  123. For the Correction of Mr.Ikram 

    Mr.Ikram writes

    “Meer Sahib you wrote that you recognized the Mujaddid at a tender age of 17 when legally you were a child. Thereafter you have been his follower for 16 years. That means Sultani Sahib has been in his spiritual path for almost 2 decades.”

    Mr Ikram read carefully what i wrote in my post(October 27th, 2011 at 5:06 pm )
    “I have identified the truth just like as was identified by me almost 16 years before when I accepted HMGS a.s as a Mujadid miraculously after a worst opposition.At that time I was just of 17 years old.” 

    Here i wrote that”when I accepted HMGS a.s”..Mean i was talking about Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahamad Qadiani r.a that i accepted him as mujadid in the age of 17.

     


  124. @Adnan Meer:

    I am sure you must have heard a profession called ‘Witch Doctor’. Or some times automechanic call themselves ‘Doctor Breaks’ or ‘Doctor Transmission’ here in USA.
    But none of them writes ‘Dr.’ (Short form for word Doctor) before their names. Beacuse ‘Dr.’ is reserved for people who have worldly formal education and hold degrees e.g. M.D.; Ph.D.; Psy. D.; Sc.D. And pretending to be a ‘Doctor’ especially ‘Doctor of Medicine’ with out the required education and training is quackery and punishable by law.  


  125. Former Qadiani’s hero and now Khatam-e-Nabuwat Academy, UK spokesman writes about Nasir Ahmad Sultani sahib on ahmedi.org:

    AkberC

    Posts: 1349
    Oct 28, 201100:19:29
    Registered Member

    A.K. Shaikh and I had an over-2-hour conversation with him when he announced his claim.

    What sets him unique is that he was a paid murabbi of the Jamaat who got disgruntled with the Jamaat.

    They are really looking for some reform.


  126. Mr Adnan Meer, you say: “Absolutely right. But Is your statement acceptable for opponents?”

    Many opponents, as well as a large number of people outside the Ahmadiyya Movement, themselves recognised Maulana Nur-ud-Din and Maulana Muhammad Ali as scholars of Islam.

    Incidentally, in a court case recounted in Kitab-ul-Bariyya by the Promised Messiah, the witness statement of Maulana Nur-ud-Din as officially entered in the court records is headed as shown here. The red lining under “Maulvi Nur-ud-Din” is mine.

    In his other comments, Adnan Meer says that there is a big change in my statement, regarding “contact with Allah” from:

    “that you are challenging us about” and ”that he suggests we ought to have”.

    I can’t see any difference. You have been challenging us to demonstrate that we have a certain level of contact with Allah. That is the level which you are suggesting we ought to have but don’t, and this is the reason given by you why a new mujaddid has come.


  127. Aoa,

    You write,

    “I can’t see any difference.”

    Again have a comparison of your  two posts

    “It is true that none of us can claim to have the level of “live contact with  Allah” that you are challenging us about.”(Post October 20th, 2011 at 3:16 pm by  Mr. Zahid Aziz)

     “We have not been defeated vis-a-vis Sultani sahib. What I said is that we don’t have the highest level of contact with Allah that he suggests we ought to have.”(October 25th, 2011 at 5:02 pm )

    The difference is that  the word” chellenging” is omitted in your last post. That can be confusing for new readers. That’s  why I ponted it out.

    May Allah guide all of us to the right path(amin) 

    Jazakallah.


  128. October 29th, 2011 at 7:01 pm
    From Muhammad Ali:

    @Adnan Meer Sahib: I am providing here some links. Please have a look at them.
    http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=2010%5C03%5C07%5Cstory_7-3-2010_pg7_5
    http://www.homeopathyworldcommunity.com/group/statusofhomeopathyinpakistan/forum/topics/homeopathic-practitioners

    If you see the website from Mr. Nasir Ahmad Sultani, he is using the word “Dr.” alone at various places. So as per laws of Pakistan he as well as other homepaths should write always “Hemeopathic Doctor”with their names.

    If you think it does not makes any difference if he writes “Dr.” or “Hemeopathic Doctor”, then you are mistaken. Similarly, only the mentioning of the fact on website that he is homeopath is not enough. In Europe and America there can be lawsuits on usage of words which you are not allowed to write in front of your name. The academic title should always be exact as it is specified in law.

    But this all is not discussion with which I will personally judge if Mr. Nasir Ahmad Sultani Sahib is a mujaddid or not. I will give him advantage of doubt that he is not aware of these things and he is doing it unintentionally. But I hope that he will correct this thing from now onwards on his website and in future will write the correct title.

    For me the criteria is what are the scholalry works which Mr. Nasir Ahmad Sultani has prodcued. The book containing his dreams is may be a prove for himself but can not be prove for others. For example, the renowned and well respected people living during Hazrat Sahib time also saw dreams about the truthfulness of Hazrat Sahib.

    On Mr. Abdul Ghaffar Jamba (claimant of being Musleh Maud) website you can also read dreams. So for me being a neutral person there are equal chances that both of them can be the people whom I must accept.

    But there are some criteria which I think exist.

    1. Do we know of any Prophet or Mujaddid who used to be part of the status quo? Mr. Nasir Ahmad Sultani was a murrabi of Qadiani Jamaat. I have read his biography. He may be a very noble and pious person but I think he does not qualifies for the post of Mujaddid for this reason.

    2. What was the repute of the people and work which the people did  before making a claim to mujaddid and which were Mujaddids? What work or achievement is on the credit of Nasir Ahmad Sahib.

    I mean it’s no problem that if you say that Mr. Nasir Ahmad Sultani has uptill now no scholarly work on his side except his dreams, visions and claims of live contact with God. Well about his contact with God, I can not personally judge and I leave it upto him.  But you can tell us that he is planning to write books, do work, etc in defence of Islam and in future he will do it. He may be a very noble person, but claiming to be a Mujaddid there should be signs which should be clear. Like Hazrat Sahib announced and published his Ilhams revealing certain things in advance and used to specify the exact time period. And the things happened. I will wait if Mr. Nasir Ahmad Sultani publishes such thing in advance like Hazrat Sahib and specifies the details like Hazrat Sahib did.

    If some LAM members like me are critical to his claim then there is no harm in it. There are already people who are claiming to be Mujaddid and everyone is telling that he is truthful. Why not Nasir Ahmad Sultani Sahib challenges these other people to show a sign of Allah to people and to establish the truth. Whats the difference between Nasir Sahib and other claimants? Why should I as a neutral person not believe in the claims of other muajaddis living at this time and why should I believe in the claim of Nasir Ahmed Sahib?

    I will request you to please provide concrete answers to each point rather than starting comparing every time Nasir Ahmad Sultani Sahib with Hazrat Mirza Sahib, Hazrat Maulana Noor-ud-Din or Hazrat Maulana Muhammad Ali Sahib in your answers or providing the accusations which were framed from the opponents of these people.
    Here we are discussing about Nasir Ahmed Sultani Sahib claim and it will be fruitful if you answer the questions about him.


  129. Adnan Meer Sahib,
    Assalamo Alaikum.

    I write the following lines with sincerity.

    If Sultani Sahib’s claims are true, then undoubtedly his ability to defend Islam would be clearly far, far superior to any that we (of much, much lesser status) possess. Also, as his staunch follower, you must have benefited from your connection with him, hopefully in a way that is clear for all to see. 

    We currently have a project called “Project Rebuttal” which is not only open to public, rather we have requested other Muslims to join us in this noble effort. You can access that section of this blog from the very top of this page.

    I humbly request you and especially Sultani Sahib to as soon as possible assist us in revising our existing 27 answers as well as complete the rest of the responses to these common objections against Islam. These are the accusations leveled against Islam by its enemies today. Whatever else the Mujaddid of 15th Century has to do, these specific accusations are something that he has to respond to as his highest priority.

    If Sultani Sahib, or you, are able to take up this task and in short order (at a visibly faster pace than our current 27 responses), and your responses are so clearly superior to our current ones that any reader would cry out that this person must have Divine help, then you would have given us a fair opportunity to consider his claim.

    Otherwise, please stop wasting our time.

    May Allah guide and assist us all.

    Tariq 


  130. Challenge of Muneer Ahmad Azeem (a liar)
    It is informed that Muneer Ahmad Azeem is claiment of Khalifatullah and Ummati Nabi. He has come in the field of competition. He is a liar and challenging Hazrat Nasir Ahmad Sultani r.a, the true Khalifa and Mujaddid appointed by Allah Almighty. Hazrat Nasir Ahmad Sultani r.a has  warned  him to apologize and ask forgiveness from Allah Almighty for this blasphemy. Otherwise he would become a sign of admonitory and curse. Allah may help him and his followers to accept the truth, the true Mujaddid. Aamin.
    see the link:
    http://al-ahmadiyyat.com/official/2011/11/26/a-liar-muneer-ahmad-azeem-is-challenging-me/ 


  131. Dear M.Ali
    Aoa,
    (Reff 1 by me:)
    Hazrat Moulana Noor ud Din r.a narrates that,
     
    “Once, i went to “court” to give a witness. Lawyer asked question to me that “Are you Molvi”.I  replied “No”.He bacame silent.Infact he wanted to put the case of  HARD SWEARING on me.Means, if i said that I am Molvi then he would demand the certificate to show.There held  an exam in Punjab University from where people get the degrees of Molvi,Molvi Alim,Molvi Fazil and it is clear that i didn,t pass this exam and by the word Molvi it was considered of that certified Molvi from University.I quickly became aware of his trick by wisdom. 
     
    It is proved from Hazrat Noor ud Din’s r.a statement that 
     
    According to the law only a person was eligible to use  the title of “Molvi” who  had the proper degree from some institute. 
    By the word “Molvi” it was considered of that “Molvi” certified from some institute. 
     
    Here is another reffernece that was sent to me by respected Mr.Zahid Aziz sahib.
    (Reff 2 by Respectd Mr.Zahid Aziz sb:)
    “Incidentally, in a court case recounted in Kitab-ul-Bariyya by the Promised Messiah, the witness statement of Maulana Nur-ud-Din as officially entered in the court records is headed as shown here. The red lining under “Maulvi Nur-ud-Din” is mine..”(October 29th, 2011 at 6:06 am )
     
    Now by reading the both references, any opponent can easily object that”he deceived the court” .(Naooz billah)..
     
    The justification made by Mr.Zahid Aziz sb is also acceptable for me and i am well aware of it Alhamdolialh but it can’t satisfy the law and any of the narrow minded opponents.

    Now the question is that why in one scenario Hazrat Noor ud Din r.a denies that he is a Molvi and why in other he doesn’t.??
    It clearly specifies that it depends upon the scenario itself and nothing else.
    Same like the case is here with Hazrat Nasir Ahamad Sultani r.a about using the title Dr.
    I am also his student in Homoepathy Alhamdolilah and I testify that we love to be called homoeopathic doctors Alhamdolilah and we don’t like to be considered as  Alopathic Doctors. We never decieved any person by any mean to be considered as alopathic or phd doctors.
     
     
    As doctor Mas says,
    “To change or delete that clause 2/3 majority of the parliament is required that is IMPOSSIBLE. The reason is that this government is itself standing on only one extra vote. In 43 years of history of homeopathy this type of attacks from group of ALLOPATHIC DOCTORS are not new. In standing committee, few allopathic doctors initiated that proposal that was turned down by the chairman standing committee, Dr. Nadeem Ehsan 
    I personally rang him, got appointment and met him at Lahore on 7th March, 2010 at 6:00 pm. He categorically said no such bill was approved by the STANDING COMMITTEE. It is all media disinformation. At the same moment, he issued clarification to all print and tele media. That clarification was highlighted by the most circulated newspaper Lahore express daily”. 
    “Rest, parliament is the main and supreme authority. If parliament desires that we homeopaths should not use “Doctor” then I will support this decision. Because parliament means the people of Pakistan. If people of Pakistan says, we should not use the title DOCTOR then who I am to protest. Ok. Ask all parliament members to pass that bill. I will accept. I love to be called “HOMEOPATH MAS”. ” http://www.homeopathyworldcommunity.com/group/statusofhomeopathyinpakistan/forum/topics/homeopathic-practitioners
    And in this case we  also love to be called only “Homoeopaths”.
    You say that,
    “If you see the website from Mr. Nasir Ahmad Sultani, he is using the word “Dr.” alone at various places. ”
    As you are admitting that he is using the word Dr. alone at various places not at all places.It is   same like the Hazrat Noor ud Din’s scenario where at one place he uses the word Molvi for himself but  at  other place he does’nt.
    Further you write
    “So as per laws of Pakistan he as well as other homepaths should write always “Hemeopathic Doctor”with their names.””
    “Similarly, only the mentioning of the fact on website that he is homeopath is not enough. ”
    Would you like to present me the exact description of that article of the law in which the same thing is mentioned upon whcih you are stressing that
    “homepaths should write always “Hemeopathic Doctor”with their names”.
    “only the mentioning of the fact on website that he is homeopath is not enough”
    You know well that in law the total game depends upon the wording.So prove your wording as it is, in the description of the article of the law upon which you are stressing.
    According to us as HNAS r.a has used the word Dr. alone in his website, is not against the law because this web site clearly fulfills the objective and purpose of the law, that is to make a clear difference between the physicians of two shools(Alopathy and Homoeopathy) .Go to the  chairman standing committee, Dr. Nadeem Ehsan and ask about it and present him Hazrat Nasir Ahamad’s website.Prove the usage of dr alone in it against the law in any court . If it is proved illegal and wrong then surely we will follow and respect the law inshallah.
    It is only the matter of perception about the law, other wise our intentions  are well known to Allah and the people as well who closely know us.
    Further you write:
    “In Europe and America there can be lawsuits on usage of words which you are not allowed to write in front of your name. The academic title should always be exact as it is specified in law.”
    I could not understan that what’s the puropose of metioning the above fact here. How it concerns with the Hzratr Nasir Ahamad Sultani’s matter.When and where Hazrat Nasir Ahamad Sultani R.A ever broke the law of America or any of the European country including Pakistan.???You are realy mistaken brother.
    Now let me know that sending the Quran’s Translation of M.Ali r.a in Europe and America by writing with his name Moulana is not a deception by LAM with thses nations.(as he was not a certified Molvi .)
    What these nations would  think about Lahore Ahmadiyya Movement when they would become aware of the fact that Lahore Ahamadiyya Movement  is deceiving the world by using the title of Molvi or Scholors with the names of those elders who are not eligible for these titles according to the law of their own country as well.
    At last what would you say about the law about Ahamadis in pakistan???.
    Does LAM follow it in its every aspect?
    Do you agree with this law?
    If in some Pakistani court, some lawer asked to you  that are you a Muslim then what should be the answer from you?
    What optoin you select in catagory of religion in the form of  N.I.C? 
     
    Molvi Use Fake Name Like Political Leader Use Fake Dig
    http://www.scribd.com/…/Molvi-Use-Fake-Name-Like-Political-Leader-Use…23 Jun 2010 –
    I will soon reply you about your remaining questions regarding scholarly works etc. Although I have made it very clear in my post  dated October 22nd, 2011 at 3:47 pm .

    Jazzak Aallah, 
     
     


  132. People in Europe and America are unaware of the meaning of maulana or maulvi. They think it’s a part of the person’s name. Therefore the question of deceiving them doesn’t at all arise.

    And why should this title elevate a person? Maulanas and Maulvis are held in such low esteem among Muslims that many are actually turned away by knowing that someone is a maulana or maulvi! So the position of Maulana/Maulvi Nur-ud-Din and Maulana/Maulvi Muhammad Ali might well be lowered through this title in many Muslims’ eyes.

    Please read the incident related by Maulana Nur-ud-Din in Mirqat-ul-Yaqin (p. 178 of the AAIIL edition): On a train, a Muslim asked him a religious question, addressing him as Maulvi sahib. Another Muslim sitting nearby walked away from them and turned his face away in revulsion. When the Maulana asked him why he reacted in this way, he told a story about how the non-sensical replies of maulvis make Muslims leave Islam. So he hates anyone who is called a maulvi.

    On the other hand, the title “Dr” always elevates a person in people’s eyes.

    It is also interesting to note that in 1897, just at the time when Maulana Muhammad Ali took the bai`at, his father in a letter calls him “Maulvi Muhammad Ali”. Then the Promised Messiah from the very beginning that he knew him called him Maulvi Muhammad Ali (see letters published in Mujahid-i Kabir going back to 1898). At that time, he had not started his religious work, and was intending to start a legal practice or join the civil service. Can we guess at the reason why he was called “Maulvi” even at that time?


  133. On the title page of some of his Urdu books, Maulana Muhammad Ali’s name is given as: “Maulana Maulvi Muhammad Ali”. I also recall that our late scholar and missionary Hafiz Sher Muhammad often used to take his name as “Maulana Maulvi Muhammad Ali”.

    Presumably we will be accused of double deceit on this basis.


  134.  
    A heart which has no desire to receive a certain Divine communion is  dead;
     
    A religion which cannot lead its followers to this perfection and fails to grant them communion with God, does not possess the spirit of truth and does not come from God; 
     
    A prophet who does not lead his people on the path where they crave for Divine communion and God-realization, is not from Him 
     
     
     
    My dear and most respected Mr.Zahid Aziz sahib 
    Aoa,
    You write to Mujadid of 15th Islamic Century, Hazrat Nasir Ahamad Sultani r.a in your previous post dated October 23rd, 2011 at 7:24 pm 
     
    “Dear Sultani sahib, assalamu alaikum.
     
    My answer to all these questions (right path, goal, etc.) can be found in the three lengthy statements of Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad that I have already uploaded in the original and given links to in my comments above.
     
     
    Letter published in Badr, 21 November 1907.
    Statements in Badr, 14th February and 3 October 1907.
    Now I have added a fourth statement: Statement in Al-Badr, May 1904.
     
     
    According to the above refferneces presented by you from the writtngs of HMGA,the summary of these refferences can be described  in the following lines.
     
    “God has not asked you to pray that you may receive revelation, but rather that you attain the right path, the path of those who, in the end, receive the favour of God.”
    “It is not for a man to wish to receive revelation, nor does it give him any kind of merit” 
    (Letter published in Badr, 21 November 1907)
     
     
    “The real aim and purpose is to establish a true and sincere connection with Allah, with devotion and fidelity, which cannot be attained by mere dreams …”
     
    ” This is what a man ought to attain. Without these, there is nothing to be gained by having dreams and revelations. A believer always keeps his eye on good deeds ”
     
    ( Al-Badr, 8-16 May 1904 (Malfuzat, v. 6, p. 434-436)):
     
    ” My experience with all such persons is that in the end they are destroyed. They don’t think about their deeds, they don’t look at what kind of connection their hearts have with Allah, but they are embroiled in these revelations. …”
     
     (Badr, 14th February 1907) 
     
     
     
    Now in response I  want to present some extracts from “Lecture Lahore” to draw your attention and make you realize that the refferences presented by you were just one side of the picture as one can say that Quran orders to its followers”La Takrabuss salat”. But I don’t blame  that you did so consiouly.
     
    Although,by reading  only  the refferences presented by you it becomes very clear to a reader that what actually HMGA a.s wants to say but for convenience I would like to present some extracts here from “Lecture Lahore,pages 159,160,161,162″ to show the both sides of pictures . 
     
     
    Now please read carefully the following  extarcts 
     
    Hazrat Promised Massiah a.s says by explaining the following verse of Quran.
    “And when My servants ask thee concerning Me,…………………..so they should hear My call and believe in Me that they may walk in the right way.(Al-Baqarah, 2:187)
    If My servants ask you that how His existence is proved and why  it ought  to believe that God realy exists.So its answer is that i am very near. I answer  the pryer of the suppliant when he calls on me. And when ever he calls on Me I hear his voice and speak to him. 
    So they must make themselves as, so I can speak with them.” 
     
    Further he explains the following verse at page
    “And be with the truthful ( Al-Taubah, 9:119)
    if you wish to see God, then pray and strive, and another requirement is that you should keep the company of 
    the righteous. ”
     
     This is the stage where the labours of a spiritual wayfarer culminate, and man’s baser self  is annihilated, and God’s 
    grace grants him a new life through His living word and 
    shining light, and honours him with His sweet converse. 
     
    Further he explains 
    “He has also accepted the following prayer which He has 
    taught us in the Holy Quran: 
    Guide us on the right path,
    The path of those upon whom Thou hast bestowed favours
    Not those upon whom wrath is brought down,nor those who go astray.”
     
    i.e., show us the path of  the righteous ones, whom You 
    favoured with every bounty,  i.e., those who received 
    every kind of blessing from You, who were honoured 
    with Your converse, whose  prayers were accepted, and 
    who were accompanied by Your help and guidance; and 
    save us from the path of  those who incurred Your displeasure and forsook Your path. 
     
    A heart which has no desire to receive Divine communion is  dead;
     
    a religion which cannot lead its followers to this perfection and fails to grant them communion with God, does not possess the spirit of truth and does not come from God; 
     
    a prophet who does not lead his people on the path where they crave for Divine communion and God-realization, is not from Him 
     
    and only attributes falsehood to Him; for the ultimate purpose 
    of religion, which can rid man of sin, is to attain certainty 
                                        
    about God and the Day of Reckoning. 
    But how can one attain this certainty unless  one hears the voice of God—
    Now the summary from extracts presented by  you can be found only in one sentence that is
    “”It is not for a man to wish to receive revelation”(translated by you)
    “what concern has a man about it that he may become desireous of revelation.(translated by me)
     
    And the summary from extracts  presented by me can be found only in one sentence that is
    “A heart which has no desire to receive a certain Divine communion is  dead;”
    Now a reader can feel a contradiction here after reading both kinds of extracts so I want to make it clear as both of us have a firm believe that there is no contradiction in the writings of HMGA a.s. 
     
    So by combining the both kind of refferences and reading them according to their context we can say that
     
    “A heart which has no desire to receive a certain Divine communion is  dead but the desire must be pure of egoism, because for the ultimate purpose of religion, which can rid man of sin, is to attain certainty about God and the Day of Reckoning. 
    But how can one attain this certainty unless  one hears the voice of God—
    ;”
     
    wassalam, 
     


  135. I forgot to add the complete reference of the following extracts in my above post so I am adding here.Jazakallah

    A heart which has no desire to receive a certain Divine communion is  dead; A religion which cannot lead its followers to this perfection and fails to grant them communion with God, does not possess the spirit of truth and does not come from God;  A prophet who does not lead his people on the path where they crave for Divine communion and God-realization, is not from Him  “Lecture Lahore-pages 159,160,161,162-Rohani Khazain, vol-20″


  136. Anyone who reads the Letter published in Badr, 21 November 1907 that I referred to, as mentioned by Adnan Meer in his comment above, will easily see that I have not presented “one side of the picture” or quoted Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad out of context. I intend inshallah to translate it into English so that readers can see how forcefully he has expressed himself and that my brief quotations from the letter (“It is not for a man to wish to receive revelation, nor does it give him any kind of merit”) represent his views correctly.


  137. Mr.Zahid Aziz writes
     “I intend inshallah to translate it into English so that readers can see how forcefully he has expressed himself and that my brief quotations from the letter (“It is not for a man to wish to receive revelation, nor does it give him any kind of merit”) represent his views correctly.”

    I could not understand that instead of referring the posts from both of  us for comparison to judge the reality,why he is  intending to translate the  the Letter published in Badr, 21 November 1907  in english…Amazing


  138. 1. I had quoted, in English translation, a couple of sentences from that published letter.

    2. Adnan Meer claimed that I had quoted the Promised Messiah out of context. He wrote: the references presented by you were just one side of the picture as one can say that Quran orders to its followers ”La Takrabuss salat”.

    3. So I said I will translate and publish here the whole of the letter in English. After all, this discussion is taking place in English. Many of our readers cannot read Urdu. Even many of those who can read Urdu might still have difficulty in clearly understanding the small print or some of the words.


  139. Mr Adnan Meer, you have asked me why I haven’t published your comment which you sent just prior to the one above by you.

    I didn’t publish it because all you did in it was to quote my comment of October 23rd, 2011 at 7:24 pm and then your recent comment of December 4th, 2011 at 6:45 pm, and asked readers to compare the two. Both these can already be read above on this page and need not be repeated again to avoid lengthening this page unnecessarily. However, I can give links to both of those comments for convenience:

    Zahid Aziz’s comment of October 23rd, 2011 at 7:24 pm

    Adnan Meer’s comment of December 4th, 2011 at 6:45 pm


  140. Aoa,
    Four questions for Lahore Ahamadiyyah Movement
    Jazakallah

    http://al-ahmadiyyat.com/official/2011/11/25/1571/


  141. I have now translated that writing of the Promised Messiah mentioned above and created a document consisting of the translation and the image of the original page from Badr. Please read here.

    (Personal note: During this time the birth of a grandson, my first grand-child, has taken place!)


  142. Dear M.Ali
    Aoa,

    You write to me in your post dated October 29th, 2011 at 7:01 pm that,

    “On Mr. Abdul Ghaffar Jamba (claimant of being Musleh Maud) website you can also read dreams. So for me being a neutral person there are equal chances that both of them can be the people whom I must accept.”

    Here are two links which contain the answer of your confusion.

    http://al-ahmadiyyat.com/official/2011/12/12/invitation-respected-abdul-ghaffar-janbah/

    http://al-ahmadiyyat.com/official/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/Letter-to-Abdul-Ghaffar-Janbah-Sb..pdf

    wassalam
     


  143. The quandry of this long thread of 142 posts has been answered by a book in Urdu by Amir Aziz, AAIIL, entitled – “Principles to Identify the Mujaddid of the Times, and Hadiths about Mujaddid.”

    http://www.aaiil.org/urdu/books/others/amiraziz/mujadidwaqat/mujadidwaqtkeshanakhat.shtml


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