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June 28th, 2010

Article equates Qadianis with Baha’is

Submitted by Rashid Jahangiri.

Fulfillment of a prediction of Maulana Muhammad Ali sahib.

Going through Raza Rumi blog, on PTH, I came across on an interesting comment by him:

“One of the biggest verdicts Montazeri passed was to call for the acceptance and recognition of the Baha’i (an offshoot similar to that of the Ahmedi faith which is seen as heretical by most mainstream Muslims) as Iranian citizens deserving of equal rights and responsibilities:”

He has equated “Ahmadi [Qadiani-ahmadis] Faith” in Pakistan to Baha’i faith in Iran.

Maulana Muhammad Ali sahib (of Lahore Ahmadiyya Movement) had warned Qadiani Jamaat Khalifa 2 Mirza Mahmud Ahmad (QK-2) from making changes in claims of Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad sahib (HMGA), and demanding from his followers to accept the changed belief regarding status of HMGA, (at time of split in Ahmadiyya Movement in 1914 and afterwards). Maulana Muhammad Ali sahib had warned QK-2 that with your attitude you people will end up like Baha’is in Iran. And today that time has come when even secular, and Sufi journalist/ and columnist like Raza Rumi has started equating Qadianis to Baha’is.
Indeed today is a sad day!

See link here.

15 Responses to “Article equates Qadianis with Baha’is”

  1. I have interacted with highly educated professionals from Qadiani Jamaat. In our talks subject of Ahmadis particularly belonging to Qadiani faction persecution in Pakistan comes. July 2010 issue of The Light—UK edition also highlights the violence against Qadianis.
    In my conversation with Qadianis I always try to emphasize on them that they should try to do what they can to help their critics in Pakistan decrease animosity towards them. In this regard I suggest them, besides correcting their belief regarding status of Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad sahib, they should also retract statements in writings of their Khalifa 2 Mirza Mahmud Ahmad and his younger brother Mirza Bashir Ahmad. These two elders of Qadianis have used very strong language for all the reciters of Kalima-Shahada not belonging to their jamaat. Unfortunately, most of the times they fail to understand my sympathies towards the plight of Qadianis in Pakistan. Especially of poor Qadianis. Every time with heavy heart I come to accept a comment made by elder of our Lahore Ahmadiyya Movement Masood Akhtar sahib. He made a comment few years ago in USA.
    I was talking on subject of 1974 constitutional amendment and persecution of Qadianis, and to a lesser degree of our Lahore Ahmadiyya Movement members, in Pakistan. Masood sahib said that there is no question that with 2nd amendment our jamaat is also persecuted and we too suffer. Especially when we had no part in the troubles created in 1974 or before that. It was Qadiani leaders speeches, writings and practices that homed animosity and hatred in hearts of Ahmadiyya critics. We are facing extreme problems in fulfilling our jamaat mission of propagation of Islam. But as it is tradition of Allah to create some good in every adverse situation for his innocents, there is some good in it too. He said because of amendment and persecution that followed after 1974, Qadiani jamaat is losing its roots in Pakistan. Their Khalifa is not in Pakistan, and center of their strength is continuously weakening, and with it their beliefs and practices, which originally created all the animosity is weakening. And when their Khalifa loses his grip in Pakistan, he will lose it around the world. As Qadianis are becoming relatively more independent in thinking, they have more exposure to information with internet and availability of Lahore Ahmadiyya Movement literature. Although Khalifa does have MTA, but his grip is not as strong as it was in Qadian or Rabwa. Today, based on my personal experience of interactions with Qadianis, I notice when they are cornered to give their opinion of hatemongering writings of Mirza Mahmud Ahmad (called by Qadianis: “Musleh-Moud”) and Mirza Bashir Ahmad (called by Qadianis: “Qamar-ul-Anbiyya”) they write: “No more discussion on personalities. If you want to discuss beliefs, I am happy. Else, we stop.” I don’t know how Qadianis can take personality out of teachings of their “divine” personalities. I take it as Qadianis first step towards REJECTION of Khalifa 2 and his brothers teaching.

  2. Root Cause of these Hate Crimes.
    On PTH there is an article ‘Examining the causes of Ahmadi Massacre in Lahore’ by Anwar Khan (A spectator – ten thousand miles away). In his article he makes comment:

    “To its credit, The Pakistan Assembly demonstrated a concern over the incidence. True concern, however requires a study of the root cause of these hate crimes – in particular the legislation of 1974 and 1984.”
    Unfortunately, author is unaware that ‘Root Cause of these Hate Crimes’ did not start in 1974.
    In The Light & Islamic Review: Vol.73, No. 3; May-June 1996; p. 14-15, issue the editor writes:

    Moreover, we have also been drawing attention to those extreme Qadiani beliefs which their leadership proclaimed openly for several decades, but about which today they find it expedient to maintain silence. Even very few Qadianis themselves are aware of those beliefs, and yet those doctrines are fundamental to the Qadiani philosophy. For example, today Qadianis will tell you that a Muslim is anyone who professes the Kalima and that such a person cannot be declared as kafir by anyone. Yet the main basis for the foundation of their Jama’at in 1914 was their staunchly-held belief that, except for those people who become disciples of their khalifa, the rest of the Muslims in the entire world are kafir.
    Link to article on PTH:
    See link here.

  3. June 30th, 2010 at 3:27 pm
    From Mohammed Iqbal:

    I am a non Ahmadi, sympathetic to Ahmadi teachings in several matters of the religion. There is one point, I want the Lahoris to clarify. I can understand one son of Mirza Sahib attributed prophetic claims to Mirza Sahib for his personal gains. But how did his entire family sided with him? His wives and children, with the exception of Mirza Fazl Ahmed who was a non Ahmadi, supported Khalifa 2. How did his close family members failed to understand his true teachings?

  4. @ Mohammad Iqbal
    Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad father’s in-law was Mir Nasir Nawab. Mir Nasir Nawab was employed in department of irrigation near Qadian. He was opponent of HMGA and even wrote poems to ridicule him. He was a shrewd man. When HMGA elder brother passed away and he received his part of inheritance and became financially well off. Mir Nasir Nawab managed get his daughter married to him.
    When HMGA passed away, his eldest son, Mirza Mahmud Ahmad, from daughter of Mir Nasir Nawab was hardly passed his teens. In 1908 Maulana Noor Ud Din became head of the Ahmadiyya Movement. During his headship, Mir Nasir Nawab started work on his plans to make sure Mirza Mahmud Ahmad becomes the next head of movement. To achieve his objective he even started calling Maulana Noor  Ud Din a ‘Nai (Barber)’ (one meaning of word Khalifa means Barber). And started making statements such as “Khilafat” should come into the family of “Alhe-Ba’it” (family of HMGA). In 1914 Maulana Noor Ud Din passed away, and rest is the history. Mir Nasir Nawab had smelled money. As he was witness to how much devotees send money to HMGA and Anjuman for propagation of Islam. So he helped get his grandson become head of Qadiani Faction. And as timed passed Mirza Mahmud Ahmad and his brother kept making sure that Qadianis keep on getting farther and farther from rest of the Muslims. Thus they were able to control their followers in every sense of the word control. They came in control of Anjuman decisions, finances etc. And so much animosity had spread against Qadianis among general Muslims that Qadianis were left with no choice but to stay with Mirza Mahmud Ahmad and his family.
    Now, coming to your question: Two other sons of HMGA were younger than Mirza Mahmud Ahmad in 1908, so they followed their elder brother. As far as HMGA other children and family members are concerned they were living in Qadian, and when Mirza Mahmud Ahmad moved to Lahore/ Rabwa the rest of the family moved with them. Mirza Sultan Ahmad from first wife of HMGA, who was an atheist and opponent of HMGA also moved to Rabwa. Even the widow and children of Maulana Noor Ud Din moved with them. No one stayed behind in Qadian.
    So, where ever head of family moved others moved. Mirza Mahmud Ahmad younger brothers had also smelled money. So, they sided with elder brother. Here I will make few observations:
    HMGA had predicted that his children would defame him. Moreover please make note that neither Mirza Mahmud Ahmad nor his siblings and Qadiani Khalifa 3, 4 despite having physical ownership of Bahisti-Muqbara (heavenly graveyard) in Qadian, finances and political sources got buried there.
    Close family members failed to understand true teachings of HMGA because smell of money and power of authority on followers was too strong.

  5. June 30th, 2010 at 7:24 pm
    From Zahid Aziz:

    Dear Mr Iqbal, you have mentioned “personal gains” as the motive of Mirza Mahmud Ahmad sahib. The family also gained, as became clear by later history till today. The headship remains its exclusive preserve. It is not so much a question of failing to understand his true teachings.

    Examples already existed of descendants of great auliya taking over their successorship, whether they were worthy of it or not.

    As to the point about these persons being close family members of the Promised Messiah, the Lahori elders were also admittedly close to him. Mirza Mahmud Ahmad sahib himself said in a speech in 1925:

    “For the sake of the khilafat we had to make an unparalleled sacrifice. And that was that we sacrificed for its sake the old followers of the Promised Messiah, those who were called his friends, those who had a very close relationship with him. If this religious difference had not arisen between them and ourselves, they would be dearer to us than our own children because they included those who knew the Promised Messiah and those who were his companions…”

  6. June 30th, 2010 at 10:18 pm
    From islamicknight:

    @ rashid…

    and this is the family of the messiah who was supposed to bring Islam to pristine purity and destroy christianity?

    Cmon man….your better off being a mormom…

  7. July 1st, 2010 at 11:37 am
    From Zahid Aziz:

    Regarding families, the ten sons of prophet Jacob come to mind here!

    As to “better off being a Mormon”, Islamic Knight was calling himself a member of the Qadiani Jamaat and applying the title “Hazrat” to Mirza Ghulam Ahmad sahib until the end of January this year.

  8. July 1st, 2010 at 8:00 pm
    From Zahid Aziz:

    Islamic Knight has sent me the following reply:

    How old are you? I am surprised that you even have the ability to operate a computer.

    FYI: I am a part of 15-man ahmadiyya-awareness team. We share info, we learn from each other. I have a wealth of knowledge and data based on the team concept. Lots of my knowledge came from them. Some members are Crankthatskunk, shahid kamal, akber c, AK Shaikh…and many others. We have been working together since like 2006.

    All of my writings are available on for the last 4 years. Everyone over there knows me quite well. I am Bilal Roberts a young ex-ahmadi. I left ahmadism at age 18. Even Muhstaq Malik aka Rashid knows me.

    I think that you are a delusional old man who needs help and who is stuck in a bogus religion that is dying. You adjusted all the beliefs of the lunatic from Qadian, from jihad to prophethood to the birth of esa (as).

    FYI: Crankthat skunk has known me for a long time, he is my buddy.


  9. July 1st, 2010 at 8:05 pm
    From Zahid Aziz:

    I received an e-mail from you, Islamic Knight, dated 28th January 2010 asking a question about a reference, in which you stated:

    “I am currently a qadiani…”

    and your question began:

    “I was currently reading your blog when I noticed that Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad wrote:”

  10. July 2nd, 2010 at 5:25 am
    From Zahid Aziz:

    Islamic Knight has sent me two responses to this. The first begins:

    Quote –

    here is the email that you quoted. It was a typo. I meant to write; “I am a muslim who was an ex-qadiani. Sue me for writing too fast. Why are you bringing up old emails?

    – Unquote.

    The second begins:

    Quote –

    On second thought..maybe it wasnt a typo. I honestly cant remember. My answer is SO WHAT. I want to be your friend so that i can expose you. You ahmadis avoid muslims as much as possible. I am doing whatever it takes to create dialogue. You wont even come to the ahmadiyya awareness forums to challenge us because you know that you will lose.

    I honestly cant remember. Ihave typos all over the ahmedi forum site. People make mistakes. Is that the crux of this discussion? Why are you diverting? Old men are just weird.

    I want to be your friend so that I can learn more about the LAM and then expose your cult. When was the last time the LAM held a public debate with muslims?

    – Unquote.

    His full sentence in his e-mail of 28th January was:

    “I am currently a qadiani but I am very interested in the Lahoris…”

    In the first response he says this was a typo for: “I am a Muslim who was an ex-Qadiani”. In the second he admits that it could have been a deliberately false statement intended to deceive.

  11. ‘Islamic Knight’ aka ‘rationalist’ posted this on another site:

    July 1, 2010 at 10:57 pm

    Rationalist says:

    I must admit, my methods of dealing with these ahmadis have not been 100% correct, sometimes i get mad and sometimes I use methods that are questionable in my pursuits of knowledge. This is how i combat them. I have gained valuable info through my methods.
    Its a game of cat and mouse.

  12. If crankthatskuk is this knight’s buddy then it is quite clear what we are dealing with here. These people drag up the same old issues that have been answered 101 times. It gets worse when they try to be creative and come up with ridiculous arguments such as crankthatskunk once arguing that prophets do not have knowledge of the unseen. My experience is the more you confront them with evidence from the Quran, the more frustrated they get and in the end become abusive. It is quite useless to arue with them, unless, of course one wants to renew one’s faith by seeing how shallow and illogical the opponents are.

  13. July 2nd, 2010 at 1:37 pm
    From Zahid Aziz:

    If Islamic Knight has been posting as Rationalist, then he also said in a post on forum dated Dec 24, 2009 about why he left Ahmadiyyat:

    “I read and read and read, this was in my early 20’s. I am now 27. I left at 25, just two years ago. ”

    But in his e-mail to me (as mentioned in my comment above) he says that he left Ahmadiyyat at age 18, and has been writing against it for four years.

    And again on the same day in the same forum:

    “I have no issues with the greatness of Maulana Muhammad Ali (ra). He just made some mistakes. May Allah forgive him for those! Amin!”

  14. You can’t understand anything if you have not developed an understanding about your relation with Allah and its influence on your practice. I feel that everyone should have some clarity because only then they can understand or relate to with what others, those who had been close to Allah, had experienced.

    then they would not engage in such discussions that who is among them right or wrong – then they’ll only see its not different than what they r experiencing – it is the confirmation of what has been revealed to them.

    if anyone lacks that personal experience then its impossible to make sense to them. They can’t focus on what matters and what part its plays for self progress. Everyone should focus on learning and developing that relation – it can’t be taught by anyone else. To engage in a dicussion to just prove others wrong by quoting them out of context is a pointless discussion.

    If anyone has reached a state where they can see what is important and why it is important that like Mujadid of 14th century and other men of God they will spread knowledge through their own personal experience then bothering to pass judgments who is right and wrongw hen its clear that how much wants to share such understanding with others – does not matter at what stage anyone is.

    there is much difference between how servants of Allah act and what they focus on and those who just know nothing and hell bent to pick up issues which may not play any role in correcting one’s own self.

  15. There are guides who can show you the way. Use them, but they will not satisfy your longing. Keep wanting that connection with all your pulsing energy.
    (The Essential Rumi, p. 152)

    Words are just pretexts. It is the element of sympathy that attracts one man to another, not words. If a man should see a thousand prophetic or saintly miracles, it will profit him nothing if he does not have sympathy with the prophet or saint. It is that sympathetic element that unsettles and disquiets.

    (Signs of the Unseen: The Discourses of Jalaluddin Rumi, Signs of the Unseen: The Discourses of Jalaluddin Rumi, p. 7)

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