Ending of Prophethood. A debate in Canada on video.
Submitted by Rashid Jahangiri.
Former Qadiani, and opponent of Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad, Mr. Ahmad Karim Shaikh of Mississauga, Canada (who while talking to me on telephone in spring of 2004 tried to convince me to become atheist and in his conversations used profanities for Holy Quran and Holy Prophet Muhammad SAWS. –I challenge A.K. Shaikh to deny my statement!) owner of anti-Ahmadiyya website www.ahmedi.org is moderating a debate on topic of End-of-Prophethood with Holy Prophet Muhammad SAWS.
Representative from Muslims is Akbar Ahmad Chaudhary, a former Qadiani. He created and moderated for many years, now defunct Qadiani Jamaat EZ-discussion forum www.ahmadiyya.com from Canada, and hosted TV programs on Qadiani Jamaat TV channel.
Representative from Qadiani Jamaat is Ansar Raza.
Following are links to you tube videos. I would like to hear comments from readers and regular participants on this blog. Thanks.
Introduction:
http://www.youtube.com/user/MuslimIdentity#p/c/51BA8601F0F4B474
Part 1:
http://www.youtube.com/user/MuslimIdentity#p/c/51BA8601F0F4B474/1/n-rS1ws7mGc
Part 2:
http://www.youtube.com/user/MuslimIdentity#p/c/51BA8601F0F4B474/2/X7qzURtSd2c
Part 3:
http://www.youtube.com/user/MuslimIdentity#p/c/51BA8601F0F4B474/3/4ltqOdDioZc
Part 4:
http://www.youtube.com/user/MuslimIdentity#p/c/51BA8601F0F4B474/4/KKXn-UacVDk
Part 5:
http://www.youtube.com/user/MuslimIdentity#p/c/51BA8601F0F4B474/5/XIbgtv6TeUo
Conclusion:
http://www.youtube.com/user/MuslimIdentity#p/c/51BA8601F0F4B474/6/2KVqbJmT3Og
Other remarks:
http://www.youtube.com/user/MuslimIdentity#p/c/7/gKh635QdCTU
Remarks on Arabic language:
http://www.youtube.com/user/MuslimIdentity#p/c/51BA8601F0F4B474/8/rN-JcfLsC50
From Zahid Aziz:
Views of Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad on the finality of prophethood may be seen at http://www.ahmadiyya.org/noclaim/affirms.htm.
He is the only Muslim scholar in history to have used the following terms about the finality of prophethood (see above link):
“unconditionally”:
“Do you not know that the Merciful Lord has declared our Holy Prophet to be the Khatam-ul-anbiya unconditionally, and our Holy Prophet has explained this in his words: ‘There is no prophet after me’,”
“absolutely”:
“By saying ‘There is no prophet after me’, the Holy Prophet Muhammad closed the door absolutely to any new prophet or the return of any old prophet”
“clearly”:
“This verse also clearly argues that, after our Holy Prophet, no messenger shall come into the world.”
“binding”:
“And the Holy Quran, every word of which is binding, in its verse ‘he is the Messenger of Allah and the Khatam-un-nabiyyin’, confirmed that prophethood has in fact ended with our Holy Prophet.”
“firmly”:
“I firmly believe that our Holy Prophet Muhammad is the Khatam-ul-anbiya, and after him no prophet shall come for this Muslim people, neither new nor old”
“bottom of the heart”:
“It should be believed from the bottom of the heart that prophethood has terminated with the Holy Prophet Muhammad, as God Almighty says: He is the Messenger of Allah and the Khatam-un-nabiyyin. To deny this verse, or to belittle it, is in fact to separate oneself from Islam.”
“audacity, boldness and insolence” to deny finality:
“What audacity, boldness and insolence it is to depart from the clear meaning of the Quran, in pursuit of one’s feeble conjectures, and believe in the coming of a prophet after the Khatam-ul-anbiya!.”
“fabric of Islam destroyed” by denying finality:
“how could it be possible that any prophet should come after the Holy Prophet Muhammad, according to the real meaning of prophethood? This would have destroyed the entire fabric of Islam”.
It was none other than a close disciple of Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad, namely Maulana Muhammad Ali, who wrote the greatest and most comprehensive books ever to prove the finality of prophethood.
From Amna:
I hold the view that road to spiritual excellence is opened for everyone. It can’t be that Allah should devoid people of any age and nation from His Rahmaniyat and Rahimiyat. For this reason i do question the sayings of those who hold a view that this whole existence came into being for one person i,e prophet Muhammad (pbuh). Such a view is against His rabubiyat.
To say that one can enjoy the same spiritual bounties of Allah doesn’t mean that there is possibility of prophethood. Such a view is against verses of Quran (eg – 1. completed My favour to you. 2. He is the seal of prophets 3. collected the best from all previous revelations inn this Book – compared it with the bee who makes honey)
It is established fact so when one attempts to interpret a verse one should not advocate any interpretation which is in conflict with any verse. the following verse should be interpreted keeping the certain facts in mind
7:35 O children of Adam, if messengers come to you from among you relating to you My messages, then whosoever guards against evil and acts aright — they shall have no fear, nor shall they grieve.
I have been thinking about a verse – the likeness of jesus with Allah is truly the likeness of Adam. He created him from dust.
I had many questions about this verse. i reach this conclusion that in above verse the fact that jesus is just a servant of God is argued. Dust here stands for Allah – I remember reading Mirza sahib’s answer to a Christian. He explained the philosophy of tauba or overcoming the temptation of sins. He compared a well rotted tree in soil with a person who is well rooted in Allah and takes his nourishment from Him.
If adam stands for one’s spiritual personality which came into being thru relation with Allah then Allah argued well how can Jesus be God.
Children of Adam may stand for those who have spiritual awareness – coming of messengers among you – if you are rooted well in Allah then He may bless you with what He pleases – not necessarily prophethood.
it seems that a general fact is spoken here – if one merely speak through a certain level of spiritual progress – is also a messenger.
the two extremes – that spiritual excellence is merely for prophets and none can have share in it even if you are supposed to follow the same path – that anyone who claims of having certain level of spiritual excellence is claiming for prophethood – are questionable.
From Rashid Jahangiri:
Newsweek magazine published article about recent killings of Qadianis in Indonesia.
In the article the author presented beliefs and claims of Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad as believed by Qadianis. I think magazine editor and author needs to be educated about HMGA beliefs and claims as believed by Lahore Ahmadiyya Movement members.
Link to Newsweek article:
http://www.newsweek.com/2011/02/13/intolerant-indonesia.html
From Amna:
About prophecies
I read a propehcy which speaks about the fall of beghdad and coming of Jesus. His killing of pigs (from memory)
Are not we witnessing the decsend of Jesus (sppiritual awareness in ME) against the dictators (greedy pigs)?