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February 11th, 2012

Criticism of European atheist natural scientists by Pakistani religious social scientist

Submitted by Rashid Jahangiri.

I came across a video on topic of ‘Science and Muslim Civilization’. Symposium was held in Iqbal Academy, Lahore. On November 04, 2007.

Dr. Basit Koshul, School of Humanities and Social Sciences, Lahore University of Management Sciences delivered speech in which he criticized atheist scientist such as Richard Dawkins and Pakistani Physicist Dr. Pervez Hoodbhoy. He criticizes sciences that they are based on presuppositions that that particular science cannot prove. Thus he justifies basic beliefs in a religion that cannot be proved. As he is talking in context of Islam, so instead of answering criticism by atheist scientists on religion, and virtually on Islam, he criticizes their sciences. In other words, he is answering questions by asking questions, and answer is nowhere. This is because Dr. Basit Koshul himself believes that Islam is based on presuppositions. Hollowness of Dr. Koshul arguments become evident in his reply to a question asked by audience member at exactly 43 minutes of video. Please must watch video at 43 minutes. I would like to read comments by readers, especially by Dr. Zahid Aziz.

8 Responses to “Criticism of European atheist natural scientists by Pakistani religious social scientist”

  1. At 25 minutes the speaker makes the point that a scientific theory is not based merely on data and evidence and reasoning, but the scientist receives inspiration from outside. He quotes a historian of science at Harvard who says that discoveries are made through “thematic imagination”. The speaker tells us that this concept is “preciously close to ilham and kashf”. He goes on to say that previously we thought that only Sufis receive revelation but now we learn this from Western sources. He quotes Max Weber as writing that a great scientist (as distinct from a great technician) has to be inspired from outside.

    Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad has also written in his book Barakat-ud-Dua (Ruhani Khaza’in, v. 6, p. 19-21, footnote) that the ideas which occur to the minds of thinkers, philosophers, inventors and scientists can be called ilham which they receive due to their natural aptitude in their field. He mentions as examples the inventor of the railway or the telegraph as being inspired in this sense.

    At 43 minutes the speaker answers a question about rationality and religion, although we don’t hear the question in this clip. He says that he will answer that question if you can rationally explain occurrences such as Jesus bringing the dead to life or creating birds from dust by shaping a lump of clay into the form of a bird and breathing into it.

    I am not fully clear what he means to say. But if he means that certain occurrences can take place at the hands of prophets which cannot be explained rationally, then we do agree that such things did happen. However, even if the occurrence itself cannot be explained rationally, there must be some purpose behind it which we can try to find rationally. So let us put aside seeking a rational explanation of how Jesus performed these feats (because then we will be accused of denying miracles), and ask: why did God bring these about through him? There must be a reason for the miracle. What exactly was achieved by bringing a physically dead person back to life or creating birds? Did the people who saw these miracles help Jesus in his mission or save him? When Jesus was about to be crucified, then according to (I presume) the speaker’s belief Jesus had no human assistance but God Himself had to rescue him by carrying him to heaven. So if these miracles took place in the physical sense, nothing appears to have been achieved by them.

    Once a man said to Dr Basharat Ahmad: You say these miracles refer to the giving of life to the spiritually dead, but to raise someone spiritually is nothing great, and not a miracle at all! Dr Basharat Ahmad replied: If it is nothing great then you try converting just one unbeliever to Islam! The man said: You are right!

  2. February 22nd, 2012 at 4:29 am
    From Sheeba Roshan:

    (Admin’s note: I have accepted to publish the comment below for your amusement.)

    ‎”MEHMOOD” Mirza MEHMOOD Ahmed Khalifa tul Masih 2 aur Son of Mirza Ghulam Ahmed ki nisibat se) Kiya yeh Husun e Itifaaq hai yaa phir
    kuch aur…..
    Shah MEHMOOD Qureshi
    Vice Chairman Tehreek e Insaf Pakistan
    Shafqat MEHMOOD
    General seceratry Tehreek e Insaf Pakistan
    MEHMOOD ur Rasheed
    President PTI Lahore
    Khaursheed MEHMOOD Qureshi
    Tehreek e Insaf Pakistan
    Shahid MEHMOOD
    MPA , PML-N
    Joined Pakistan Tereek e Insaaf
    Nasir MEHMOOD
    EX-Tehsil Nazim Daska
    Joined PTI
    MEHMOOD Khan
    Member Qrginizing
    Committee PTI,Canada
    Salman Rushdie’s full name is “Ahmed Salman Rushdie” he was born in Bombay and belongs to indian kashmir where Qadianis are still wealthy, educated and well setteled. The name Ahmed is very popular and relijious among Qadianis due to AHMADIAT which oppose MUHAMMADIAT and also so called prophet and khalifas ie; Mirza Ghulam AHMED, Mirza Tahir AHMED, Mirza Masoor AHMED, Mirza Mehmood AHMED. So all Qadianis having their name with AHMED use to write first AHMED then other name like Ahmed Raza Kusuri, Ahmed Billal, Ahmed Farooq, Ahmed Abdullah. The Qadianis belives on AHMADIAT and hate MUHAMMADIAT.
    MEHMOOD, Saeed, Zafar, Tahir, Aziz, Nasir, Bashir, Mansoor, Eijaz,
    Mubashir, Luqman, Hameed,, Ghulam Ahmed, Hafeez, Pervez, Zaheer
    Shaukat, Munawar, Mubarak, Shafqat, Naseer, Akhtar, Majeed, Eitizaz
    Sikandar, Hayee, Anjum, Najam, Farooq, Usman, Basharat.
    AHMED, ( But it should come first like;
    Ahmed Salman Rushdi , Ahmed Mukhtar, Ahmed
    Shuja, Ahmed Sadiq, Ahmed Makhdoom, Ahmed Raza Kusuri, etc )
    ULLAH, ( But it should come in last like;
    Zafarullah, Farhatullah, Naseerullah, Nabiullah, etc )
    MIRZA ( Either come first or in last like; Mirza Tahir Baig, Zulfiqar Ali Mirza etc )
    SAHIBZADA (Sahibzada Iskandar Mirza, Sahibzada Yaqoob Ali Khan, Sahibzada Fazal Karim, etc)

  3. “ULLAH, (But it should come in last like; …”

    “Ullah”, meaning “of Allah”, can only come in last! For example, you can only have the form “Abdullah”, meaning “servant of Allah”. It can’t be “Ullahabd”!

  4. Debate between Pakistan’s famous Physicist Prof. Pervez Hoodbhoy and British Muslim convert Hamza Tzortzis on topic of Religion and Rationality.

    In December 2011 a discussion was held between them. Organized by LUMS. It got personal at the end and ended in a bad taste. First link is to youtube video of debate. And second link is to Skype interview of Prof. Hoodbhoy in context to debate.

    My comment:
    Prof. Hoodbhoy made one point that Holy Quran is not a book of science, but he failed to acknowledge that it supports science. Hamza Tzortzis did not impress me. And Prof. Hoodbhoy disappointed me.

  5. >>Tzortzis did not impress me. And Prof. Hoodbhoy disappointed me.
    How does AlQuran help overcome our barrier to entry to know what Matter’s? You say: a_Courage(lifetime), b_Patience(1month course), c_Video (1 hr), d_Diagram (10 min)?? d_How can you use Holy Quran to overcome this barrier??? Proof is in the pudding, prove it to yourself and then pass the insight as a bad student 26yr old Einstein or as some claim Laurentz, Poincare formulated Special, General Relativity.
    I agree T is in for showmanship/bait-switch/disrepectful & P needs improvements so please jump in, pick from ground up and prove what matters: what is matter, pun intended; with todays resources and maturity? So humanity can make predictions!
    (I have a few diagrams to start but this site did not have an image upload menu-item, so please try to including one, yes I would like to improve on Hoodbhoy’s explainations from a fellow Physicist     

    (typos fixed.. have more on T’s fallacies faults but he’s not serious so low on priority for now. Like to see succinct answersm thanks) 

  6. relinking:

    or google for: Einstein’s big idea   

  7. March 31st, 2012 at 8:08 pm
    From Sheeba Roshan:

    Hood bhoy was a parsi but now he is working on Qadiani agenda in pakistan and he is one of the great enemy of islam..LUMS is the center of Qadiani think tank center in pakistan specially in Lahore.

  8. @Sheeba Roshan:

    According to Wikipedia entry: “Hoodbhoy was born into an Ismaili household.”

    FYI: Ismailis are MUSLIMS. Whether you agree with their beliefs and practices is a different issue.