The Lahore Ahmadiyya Movement Blog

I do not think you should waste your time on the above dialogue.

@Ikram Please do me a favour and tell me why members of both Jamaats; Qadiani and Lahori are obsessed with Jesus?

Dr. Zahid Aziz comprehensively replied to the original question by Naushad Ali. My response is only a personal view.

I will further expand on the question – why members of Lahore Jamaat are obsessed with Jesus alone? Why not Enoch (Idris) as well who too experienced Rafa just like Jesus? Others, for example, Hindus also consider (prophets) Rama and Krishna as Gods? Why worry about Christianity?

Jesus stands unique among the prophets. His followers turned his Islam into Christianity, just like Israelites changed Islam of Moses into Judaism before him, but with a difference. Of all the religions in the world which do not have much to do with each other, only Islam and Christianity proselyte. Only Islam as a religion is anti-Christianity (and vice versa) in its spiritual and moral domain.

According to Quran (Chapter Kahf – Cave) and elaborative sayings of Prophet Muhammad, Christianity in Latter Days will not be just one more religion but it will transform into Dajjal Masih, a religious-political-military force, which will spread its tentacles around the globe driven by doctrine of Atonement, aka non-accountable plunder, exploitation and servitude. Initially, it physically colonized the world, by occupation and now by its financial and military empire. As prophesized, in due course, it also polluted the spiritual fabric of every nation without exception, Muslims included, with its evils e.g. usury, alcohol, promiscuity etc. As predicted,  its technological advancement will be a source of both evil and blessing (compare the war related deaths in last one century alone and $700 million in interest that it sucks into City of London daily from around the globe vs. the advancements in physics, chemistry, astronomy, medicine to the extent that it almost brings dead to life).

The credit goes to Mirza Ghulam Ahmad who identified this Dajjal as the Judeo-Christian forces that Henry Ford translated in his own way as ‘super-capital’ and ‘super-government’ that runs the globe economically, militarily and politically. The veto powers in Security Council is only a small aspect of its window dressing, which it has used essentially against Muslims – Middle East, Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya and Iran to name a few. Do we even remember the dismemberment of Ottoman Empire and its replacement with despot regimes to this day? The Dajjal will not compromise on democracy for itself but obviously does not tolerate for Muslim world. Remember Shah of Iran, Shah Farooq of Egypt and current Kings in the Middle East and the Gulf; the Dictators of past and present of Muslim world?

I am sure if Prophet Muhammad was alive today he would love Dajjal for its blessings, but a common man unwittingly while loving his iPhone is paying bone-crushing interest on every morsel of food that he eats, every sip of water that he drinks, every inch of fabric that he wears, every mile that he travels and so on. Every relationship, of husband and wife, father and son, sister and brother is being strained by the globalized reach of Dajjal, the materialism. There is a global servitude of both body and soul now that Prophet Muhammad had liberated the mankind from earlier.

Now coming to ‘why Jesus’ in all this. All the wars of the last century, all the trials of isms (Colonialism, Fascism, Nazism, Communism and now Capitalism) and on and on, all happened in the backyard of Christianity. Instead of hindering the global chaos, it only augmented it, either by its silence or its silent abetment. This only proves one thing. Scientific and technological advancement is a must and the need of mankind because it is congruent to reason and the teachings of Quran. However, if this development is devoid of guiding light of Quran (not Mullah) we do not know what is awaiting us, besides the existing vice like grip of economic slavery of every man, woman and a child yet to be born. These statements are not hot air. To visualize them, check out these links for derivatives and a sampler of global debt. If you ask someone to stand on one leg, s/he may for a while but not for too long as unnatural things cannot stand, for long.

The whole Dajjalic doctrine has only one weak link in it i.e. ‘Jesus is dead.’ This is not an invention of Mirza Ghulam Ahmad or of Lahore Jamaat after him. This is the declaration of Quran, Hadith and plain common sense.

The instant Jesus is accepted to be dead (and buried in Kashmir), then according to another prophecy of Prophet Muhammad, Dajjal will dissolve away like salt in water. Dead Jesus is a death blow to Christianity, its Trinity, its Atonement and its Dajjalic doctrine, while it fully restores Allah as Ahad, Quran as Khatam-ul-Kitab and Prophet Muhammad as absolute Khatam-un-Nabbiyin. In all this, what did Muslims lose? Nothing! Islam gained, if nothing else, its disinterest in interest.

Dear Mr Naushad Ali: As I wrote to you in a direct e-mail exchange between us on another topic a few days ago:

"That is your judgment. It is for others to judge, not for you or me to judge".

Readers of this blog can judge whether myself or Ikram have answered your question or not. Which part of our answers was "irrelevant ranting"? Please quote.

(Meanwhile, I will continue to listen to those lovely, legendary Indian film songs of fifty years ago whose music was composed by your very talented namesake Naushad Ali.)

He was rejected by "Christians, Jews, Hindus, Sikhs" because they don't believe in the Holy Prophet Muhammad in the first place! So anyone claiming that Islam is the true religion isn't accepted by them.

According to your concept of the second coming of Jesus, all non-Muslims will certainly accept him because he will threaten to kill them. In the Saudi approved English translation of the Quran it is stated in a footnote that when Jesus comes: "all mankind will be required to embrace Islam with no other alternative" (under 8:39 and 3:55).

As to being rejected "all the Muslims" this is a blatant falsehood and nonsense written by you. Where did his followers come from then? Perhaps they were from among the jinn or aliens from space!

Grow up Dr. Zahid! Quit living in cloud cookuland. 1.6 billion Muslims have rejected him. That meas 99.9% of them. In my understanding that means ALL. That means total rejection.

We, as readers of this blog, cannot read minds of the contributors and can only rely on what is written by them. However, their writings sometimes give away what's in their minds. Quran gives the psychological basis of this rage which displaces commonsense in “cookuland” of theirs:

18:68. And how can you have patience in matters in which you do not have a comprehensive knowledge?[Muhammad Ali – Ed. Zahid Aziz]

If we recall early Islamic history, many opponents of Prophet Muhammad were convinced of his truth but they could not reconcile their existing beliefs with the truth, hence they would refuse to accept the Prophet.

Similarly, in our times, many fellow Muslims cannot ignore the truth of Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad. Him they can reject, but they equally cannot reconcile their existing belief of physical return of Jesus. It does not end there. They also cannot give up the hope of a bloody Mehdi as well. Even worse, certain sects are in double jeopardy by their beliefs that if Jesus is alive in heavens and can return in person, then why cannot the occulted Imam too can return in person as well to be that Mehdi?

Suddenly the whole Muslim world has awoken to the concept of a 'Peaceful Jihad". Each pulpit, every forum and each newspaper column is trying to outdo the other by claiming "Jihad by Pen." What brought this sea change? Obviously, it is hypocrisy of their minds. Outwardly they claim peace but inwardly are awaiting the advent of the ultimate killer, the avenger, the (Fruedian) ego protector, the slege-hammer, the final grand-slammer, the Mehdi.

What they all fail to recognize is that bloody Mehdi of theirs will destroy Quran with the very first swing of his sword when he tries to force convert the world to Islam (read ISIS). His every action will be against Quran because in the latter there is no compulsion in religion.

Each of this 'odd couple' of theirs, the Messiah and Mehdi, has a well-defined mission, though not too holy. The mythical Jesus will unflinchingly trample the finality of the prophethood and the Mehdi, not to be left behind, will destroy the Quran.

All those who are in wait for this mythical odd couple in turn oddly make delusory claims to be enmeshed in love of Prophet Muhammad (PBUH). They make laws, persecute and even kill others on false pretexts of anyone even allegedly 'desecrating' Quran, a Book whose protection is responsibility of none but Allah Himself. Obviously they are more loyal than the king.

But, their actions speak louder than their words. Such are factually the faces of desecrators of the finality and perfection of Prophethood (of Muhammad, pbuh) and the finality and perfection of the Book (Quran) and Islam in sum-total. Welcome to the finest of bigotry in the name of a crookedly interpreted religion that is repugnant to human reason, sense of morality and plain common sense – the “cookuland,” where not surprisingly commonsense is not that common.

@ Ikram By using abusive language, you have only exposed your bigoted and "gutter" mentality. I will not waste any more time on you.

I am closing this conversation. You are certainly addressing a different Naushad not me.  End of story. I will not contact you again.

The above blog-exchanges represent unwavering views on the fundamental doctrines of Islam i.e. the pristine perfection and finality of prophethood of Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) and the Quran.

Any member of Lahore Jamaat will never compromise on these fundamentals. As a Muslim, we are duty bound to clarify and expunge any pollution of ideas into these fundamentals. Our efforts have to reflect the doctrine of “Jihad by Pen” which is the dictate of Quran – So do not obey the disbelievers, and strive against them a mighty striving with it [–Quran] (25:52). As humans we can err in our arguments but Quran is never erring – This Book, in which there is no doubt, is a guide to those who keep their duty (2:2). Consequently, every Muslim is duty bound for a mighty striving.

Quran is quite clear about strength of its arguments against falsehood irrespective of its source, both from within or without the Muslims – Indeed, We hurl the Truth against falsehood, so it knocks out its brains, and lo! it vanishes (21:18).  Some of the responses above reflect a clueless and knocked out brain that vanished.

Another interesting point that is frequently sidestepped in the discussion about Jesus by the proponents of his physical ascension and descent (from God knows where), is that as long as the prophets are alive, none has ever been retired from the office of prophethood, nor one has ever resigned from it. If Jesus, son of Mary, is alive somewhere then he will remain a prophet as long as he lives. On his physical return his office cannot be downgraded for him to be a follower of another prophet, which in our case is Prophet Muhammad (PBUH).

If we slice and dice the Quran, and beat every bush outside Quran, there is one peripheral instance where an initially righteous person lost favor with Allah and thereafter is condemned. In a Biblical manner, Balaam is usually considered a contemporary of Moses who reportedly turned back from the guided path (link). The following verses layout a general parable but some attribute them to Balaam:

7:175. And recite to them the news of him to whom We give Our messages, but he withdraws himself from them, so the devil follows him up, and he is of those who perish.

7:176. And if We had pleased, We would have exalted him thereby; but he clings to the earth and follows his low desire. His parable is as the parable of the dog — if you drive him away, he lolls out his tongue, and if you leave him alone, he lolls out his tongue. Such is the parable of the people who reject Our messages. So relate the narrative that they may reflect.

7:177. Evil is the likeness of the people who reject Our messages and wrong their own souls.

The above verses never apply to a prophet and Jesus is just a case in point. As a rule, once a prophet, always a prophet. Given this rule of permanence of prophethood for a prophet during his lifetime, reappearance of Jesus, even if he is alive somewhere will break the seal of prophethood. If Jesus returns in person then for sure he being an independent prophet would be the only ‘Muslim’ outside the domain of Prophet Muhammad’s ummah. On the flip and through some manipulation of polemics, if he is going to be from within the ummah, then he cannot be a prophet, but that cannot happen as discussed before. The following verses expunge any prophet after the final and last prophet, Muhammad (peace be upon him):

7:158. Say: O mankind, surely I am the Messenger of Allah to you all…

34:28. And We have not sent you but as a bearer of good news and as a warner to all mankind, but most people do not know.

21:107. And We have not sent you but as a mercy to the nations.

25:1. Blessed is He Who sent down the Criterion upon His servant that he might be a warner to the nations.

Ref: Holy Quran – Maulana Muhammad Ali, Edited: Dr. Zahid Aziz

Dear Mr Naushad Ali:

Have you not been posting (under a different pseudonym) on an anti-Ahmadiyya blog since September 2010?

Did you not post on it on 22 October 2010 that Ahmadiyyat and Truth are two opposite things and that you have an enormous amount of evidence to prove this?

Have you not posted on it that you don't believe that Jesus will come again, while also posting that most Muslims are in expectation of his second coming? Here you are telling us that most Muslim rejected Mirza Ghulam Ahmad. Well, most Muslims reject you as well!

Have you not posted on it that you don't regard Pakistan as being an Islamic republic in any sense whatsoever?

According to some of your beliefs as expressed on that blog, you yourself would be declared a kafir by many Muslims!

Doesn't your e-mail address appear openly in some of your posts on that blog, where you yourself have included it in the body of those posts?

Hypocrisy, by whomever, wherever, whenever and in whatever shade, unravels under its own weight, and that is a moral law of Allah:

4:81. And they (- the hypocrites) say (in your presence), `(We stand for) obedience,' but when they sally forth from your presence, a party of them spend the night scheming contrary to what you say, and Allâh is keeping a record of whatever they scheme by night. So turn away from them and put (your) trust in Allâh, and Allâh suffices as a Disposer of affairs.

29:11. Indeed, Allâh will bring to light those who believe, and He will also reveal the hypocrites.

Despite of all this, there is hope in repentance:

4:146-147. Yet such of these (- hypocrites) who turn with sincere repentance and amend (themselves) and hold fast to Allâh and become sincere in their allegiance to Allâh, it is these who are with the believers and Allâh will soon grant these believers a great reward. What Allâh has to do with punishing you if you be grateful (to Him) and believe (in Him). Allâh is Ever-Appreciating, All-Knowing.

Ref: Quran – Nooruddin

Dear Mr Naushad Ali: Please satisfy my curiosity as to whether you really are 84 or 85 years of age, since you stated in 2010 that you are eighty years old.

Dear Mr Naushad Ali: It was on an anti-Ahmadiyya blog that you (using of course another pseudonym) posted a message, dated 16 December 2010, in which you said that as an eighty year old you are giving advice to participants in the discussion to stay away from abusive language and swear words.

It was under the same pseudonym on that blog that in another post you gave people your e-mail address. Therefore it could only be you.