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July 6th, 2018

Qadianis claim that court in Malaysia declared them as Muslims, when in fact they said to court: We are non-Muslims!

Today, 6th July 2018, Qadianis are claiming that a court in Malaysia has declared them as Muslim. See, for example, the facebook page Faizan e Ahmadiyyat.

Yet if you look at the link to a Malaysian newspaper given on the above facebook page, the news report says:

Thirty-nine members of the sect had challenged JAIS [Selangor Islamic Religious Department] for trying to charge them with shariah offences, on the basis that Islamic authorities in Selangor do not recognise Ahmadiah Muslims as Muslims.

The court ruled that the Selangor Islamic religious authorities have no jurisdiction over Ahmadi Muslims in the state.

In his submission previously, Paiva [lawyer for the Qadianis] said the community should be allowed to practise their faith since they were not considered Muslims by Selangor.

He said Jais could not attempt to charge the community with shariah offences when they had refused to recognise the Muslim sect as adherents.

“On the one hand, you say they are not Muslims; on the other hand, you are arresting them and taking them to the Shariah Court to face charges,” Paiva said.

So what happened was that the Qadianis went to court against the Selangor Islamic authorities saying: You can't charge us with committing offences against Islamic Shariah because you consider us as non-Muslims.

In another Malaysian newspaper the report begins:

KUALA LUMPUR, July 6 ― The Shah Alam High Court decided today that the Shariah Court has no jurisdiction over members of the Ahmadiyya community, as the Selangor Islamic Religious Department (Jais) has refused to recognise the Muslim sect as adherents.

What it means is that if a Qadiani commits an act which is an offence in Islamic Shariah (though not against the secular law of the land), he cannot be charged by the Islamic authorities because the jurisdiction of these authorities is limited only to Muslims!

— Zahid Aziz

6 Responses to “Qadianis claim that court in Malaysia declared them as Muslims, when in fact they said to court: We are non-Muslims!”

  1. July 30th, 2018 at 7:26 pm
    From Hussun Ahmed:

    What this means is that the Sharia court has decided to call Ahmadis as non Muslims.  What the lawyer was saying is that the Sharia court cannot have it's cake and eat it too.  You can't in one breath say that you declare them non Muslim and then in the next breath say that you they should come under the jurisdiction of the Sharia court. 

    Also if you were not intent on spreading fitnah and had bothered to watch and listen to the video, you would know that the lawyers argument is that Ahmadies are a sect in Islam.   Just like the Queen is the head of the Church of England and not Catholics, the Sharia court is not the ruler of those Muslims who adhere to a different sections view.

    The court has effectively ruled that the Ahmadis are but another sect in Islam.

    Mr Aziz you are much like the Mulla's.  Blinded by hatred of our Jamaat you cannot see the facts in front of your face.

  2. July 31st, 2018 at 1:21 pm
    From Zahid Aziz:

    Mr Hussun Ahmed: Your Jamaat's Facebook page trumpeted and shouted that "Ahmadies are declared MUSLIMS in Malaysia". Messages of congratulations from your members started flooding on that page. Today I have taken a screen shot of that page from that date, which you can view as image here.

    You wil notice my comment there as well at the top, corrrecting the impression that "Ahmadies are declared Muslims". My correction was perfectly right, both there and on this blog in my above post. And now Hussun Ahmed is repeating that same correction of mine back to me, and "correcting" me by my own correction!

    He says: "…the lawyer's argument is that Ahmadies are a sect in Islam". The lawyer certainly, most certainly, did not put that argument to the court. To make an argument standing outside the court doesn't mean that argument was presented to the court!

    He says: "The court has effectively ruled that the Ahmadies are but another sect in Islam."

    This is a typical Qadiani Jamaat ploy that they get individuals (like Hussun Ahmed) to say things which their Jamaat would never officially say because they are totally unjustified. Let the Khalifa declare this very statement of Hussun Ahmed. Let their lawyer in Malaysia announce that the court has "effectively ruled" that members of the Qadiani Jamaat are Muslims.

    Mr Hussun Ahmed: Don't forget you still have not answered my question about the speech of Hazrat Maulana Nur-ud-Din that you quoted to me. I have been repeating my question for months. You can see it here. What is your answer?

  3. 1) That is not the official page of the Jamaat, I will take your mistake here in good faith.  So whatever is stated there is not the official view.

    2) With full sincerity, and so that I may fully understand, could you please point me to where you read the full proceedings of what happened in court.  As you are most certain this argument was not made in court.

    3) Finally I do not understand what problem you have with this ruling.  The Shariah court was preventing Ahmadies from reading Juma,  Is this something you are supporting?

    The Shariah court wanted the Ahmadies to come to the court and get a declaration that we are not Muslim and then we would be allowed to use the property as a Mosque?  Is this something you support?

  4. I have not answered your question about the speech of Hazrat Khalifatul Masih I (ra) because you were being dishonest in that conversation.  I replied to your post.  You deleted my post did not answer any of my questions and then you post in reply to my deleted post and expect me to reply.

  5. August 2nd, 2018 at 2:34 pm
    From Zahid Aziz:

    1) This confirms what I said in my last message: "This is a typical Qadiani Jamaat ploy that they get individuals (like Hussun Ahmed) to say things which their Jamaat would never officially say because they are totally unjustified."

    The "mistake" was made by his Jamaat members, and I corrected them! And according to Hussun Ahmed I made the mistake! And what was my mistake? It was to believe that what his Jamaat members were saying was the standpoint of his Jamaat! To avoid making that mistake again, I will not take anything which Hussun Ahmed says as being the official view of his Jamaat.

    2) As it was your Jamaat's court case, your Jamaat has the proceedings, not me! Show us where it made the argument that you are Muslims and what the court ruled about it?

    3) The problem is your Jamaat members propagating that Ahmadis have been declared Muslims in Malaysia, which is plainly not correct.

    Just because the Shariah court was wrong in the first place in declaring your Jamaat as non-Muslim doesn't justify your Jamaat members wrongly claiming that this decision has been overturned.

  6. August 2nd, 2018 at 3:23 pm
    From Zahid Aziz:

    The answers to my two questions can only be yes or no. Therefore they are easy to answer.

    In case of the more important question (2), all Hussun Ahmed has to answer is whether he has missed out any text from the middle of the quotation that he sent me to post. He can just say "no", or he can say "yes, but it was not relevant, so I left it out".

    By not answering, he is admitting that he deliberately left something out because it goes against what he was trying to prove.