The Lahore Ahmadiyya Movement Blog

Archive for 2008

In the Press Release from the Qadiani Jama`at international centre as well as in the Khutba by Mirza Masroor Ahmad (see posts below in this blog) it is claimed that the Indonesian newspaper had issued a clarification of the original Qadiani Jama`at statement. Yet, it is quite bizarre that another official Qadiani Jama`at website, www.thepersecution.org, quotes later newsreports from the same newspaper to the same effect.

See this link to thepersecution.org.

It reproduces a report from The Jakarta Post, dated 5th February, which is as follows:

Govt to monitor Ahmadiyah sect

JAKARTA: The government has established a monitoring team to supervise the controversial Ahmadiyah sect.

“The team will gather information on to what extent Ahmadiyah has applied its ‘12 points of explanation,’ ” said Religious Affairs Minister M. Maftuh Basyuni during a hearing with the Regional Representatives Council here Monday.

Ahmadiyah was declared heretical by the influential Indonesian Ulema Council because the group recognized Mirza Ghulam Ahmad, its founder, as the last prophet, rather than Muhammad.

After a string of mob attacks on the group’s properties, Ahmadiyah’s leaders issued a statement containing “12 points of explanation”, including their acknowledgment of Muhammad as the final prophet.

The Religious Affairs Ministry on Jan. 24 issued a decree establishing the monitoring team. It includes officials from the Religious Affairs Ministry, Attorney General’s Office, Home Ministry and National Police.

“The team will report their findings to the religious affairs minister at least three months from the time the decree was issued,” said Maftuh. “At the moment, we still consider Ahmadiyah as heretical.” – JP

The newspaper is repeating the same report on 5th February, while the Qadiani Jama`at Press Release from London announces that the newspaper on 23rd January printed a clarification, i.e. that the earlier report of changing beliefs was not true.

There is also a Press Release on the Qadiani Jama`at website alislam.org dated 9th February, which near the end refers to the Indonesia events and says:

“Following the aforementioned newspaper article certain non Ahmadi Muslims and members of the Lahori sect celebrated what they perceived to be a change in the beliefs of the Community. However the content of the article was immediately rejected by the Jama’at and to its credit the said newspaper printed a statement clarifying the issue on 23 January 2008.”

I don’t think we celebrated. That 12-point statement was either based on ignorance of the beliefs of their own Jama`at or it was just a ploy to fool the Indonesian authorities. We would only celebrate if there was a true change of belief based on recognition of the past beliefs being wrong.

The Qadiani Jama`at should publish a copy of the newspaper’s statement of 23rd January which, they say, clarified the issue.

Through an e-mail sent to many people by a retired missionary of the Qadiani Jama`at, I have learnt of the khutba delivered by Mirza Masroor Ahmad on 8th February, the summary of which in English is at this link on their website.

On the events in Indonesia, the summary says:

“Huzur said there has been strong opposition in Indonesia for the past few years now. Ahmadi homes and Ahmadi mosques have been vandalised and burnt. In light of the persistence opposition and the way our Jama’at handled the matter the federal government made a treaty. The news of this pact spread to the internet via a newspaper. Huzur said some Ahmadis expressed themselves, admitting that they did not have the requisite knowledge, that in order to curb the mischief if we had to agree to certain things we should. They cited the reference of the incident of ‘Treaty of Hudaibia’ in which the Holy Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be on him) had agreed to erase the words ‘Prophet of God’. Huzur explained that first of all it was the Prophet himself who had erased the letters, something that Hadhrat Ali (may Allah be pleased with him) could not bear to do. The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be on him) had explained that the treaty was being made with people who did not believe him to be a Prophet of God. Huzur said we have no business adopting flattery and take a step that would be embarrassing for the true and ardent devotee of the Holy Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be on him). We consider Hadhrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad Qadiani to be the Messiah and the Mahdi and we have no significance without this. Our beauty is in entering his community having accepted him as the Messiah. It is him who has taught us the ways and means to be absorbed in the love of the Prophet (peace and blessing of Allah be on him) and it was the Prophet himself who had given him the title of Messiah and Mahdi. Should we give up calling him Messiah and Mahdi to temporarily please others? Should we, despite being cognisant of all the Signs that have appeared in support of his truthfulness, try and appease the world? Be those who reject Divine testimony? Should we on one hand believe in the Promised Messiah (on whom be peace) but on the other hand not believe the revelation that was given to him which said ‘Certainly you are the Promised Messiah and the Promised Mahdi who was awaited?’

Huzur said denying the Messiah and the Mahdi is denying the Ahmadiyya concept. Huzur said the context in which a newspaper published the news in Indonesia gave people a chance to raise a hue and cry that Ahmadis have changed their viewpoint and do not consider Hadhrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad a prophet but consider him a Mujaddad (a reformer). In its communication with the government of Indonesia the Indonesian Jama’at did not even hint the above as indeed no Ahmadi can ever entertain this thought. Huzur said the Indonesian Jama’at is a Jama’at of the highest order and their sincerity is second to none. Accepting the clauses in the treaty with the government did not denote any weakness of faith, however, as the words of Messiah and Mahdi were not specifically used in it, the newspaper got a chance to appear smug.”

Immediately after the above, Mirza Masroor Ahmad targets the Lahore Ahmadiyya Movement as follows:

“Huzur said he had clearly repudiated this in one of his Friday Sermons and the newspaper also clarified the issue but this gave the Lahore Movement a chance to show their inflexibility. Huzur said he would reiterate to the Lahore Movement and those who have not taken the pledge of allegiance to Ahmadiyya Khilafat to have some fear of God in terms of what our stance about the Promised Messiah is. Huzur remarked who has progressed in leaps and bounds: those who accept the Anjuman or those who consider Hadhrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad as the Messiah and the Mahdi? Who is established in 189 countries of the world? Who has Allah’s practical testimony with them? Those who accept him as a Messiah or those who consider him a guru? Huzur went on to read an extract from the writing of the Promised Messiah (on whom be peace) elucidating his own truthfulness as the Messiah and as a prophet. The Promised Messiah (on whom be peace) explained that the only instance in which he denied prophethood for himself was with regard to being a bearer of a new Shariah but said that he had knowledge of the Unseen from Allah and that he was indeed a prophet. Huzur asked does this leave any room for doubt. Huzur said with the greatest of respect he would ask his lost brothers to come and join in the spiritual revolution and take the message of this zilli (in shadow of/in subordination) prophet to the corners of the world. Huzur said if any one is witnessing the fulfilment of Divine promises it is those who accepted him as a prophet and then went on to accept his Khilafat as well.”

His statement that “this gave the Lahore Movement a chance to show their inflexibility” at least indicates that Mirza Masroor Ahmad and his Jama`at take notice of this blog, for it is only here (as far as I know) that the Lahore Movement has commented on the events in Indonesia. We are happy to know that our comments were of such strength and substance that Mirza Masroor Ahmad was compelled to refute them before his whole Jama`at.

Up to now the box in which you type your comments has been a simple text entry box (although those who know html could insert html tags within the text).

I have now installed a “plug-in” which has made the comments box into a simple editor with buttons to mark any part of your text as bold, italic etc. The resulting appearance of the text is immediately visible within the editor. There is a button to insert links around a block of text.

Zahid Aziz

Since the comments under the post “Arya Dharm” have grown to be too numerous and lengthy, I am creating this related post on the topic of the above book, which I have referred to in my comments under the “Arya Dhram” allegations post.

As this post is itself lengthy, I have now moved it off the main page to a comment on this page.

Click here (or click below on comments) and the full post will open up below this message.

Zahid Aziz

Due to an increase in auto-spam messages being sent to this blog, I have introduced a feature to ensure that a comment is being sent by a human and not computer generated.

On the comment submission form you have to answer the question what year is this? Please type the obvious answer 2008 in the box.

If you give the wrong answer, a page will appear asking you to press the back button on your browser and type the correct year. By pressing the back button on your browser you do not lose the input that you had provided, but merely return to the form as it was when you submitted it.

For any problems, please contact us through this link.

Zahid Aziz

I am creating a separate topic for this. Our opponent has sent the following comment:

From pleeezing One:

ZAHID SAHAB, HERE IS THE PIECE OF WRITING FROM ARYA DHARAM:

REF: Arya dharam RK 10 page 73-74 pdf 75-76

” According to my suggestion, if I European hoers are provided for European soldiers, then, firstly there will be no risk of syphilis (VD) because perhaps these no such disease exists in Europe, secondly, they will be examined by desi doctors at the time of selection like any soldier. By this, there will be no need of medical exams anymore as both the parties will be free of disease and this will be a good arrangement to satisfy the soldiers’ sexual desires without the need of law of internal examination.

No one can deny the fact that, like in India there are prostitutes in England. Therefore, there will be no difficulty in arranging this. Rather, I am certain that European civilized prostitutes will gladly offer their services to keep the brave soldiers happy. And for the huge expenses that will incur on bringing them to and from India, the Indian citizens will feel no burden. When they pay huge amounts for military expenses, they will not disagree to pay this additional amount. Rather this will save the honor of Indian unfortunate women and brave British soldiers will stay happy and healthy.”

NEED I SAY MORE? CAN A NABI (OR MUHADDIS IN YIUR CASE) SAY SUCH THINGS?

Our friend from Indonesia, Erwan Hamdani, has sent us a clearer English translation of the 12-point statement by the Qadiani Jama`at in Indonesia. It is as follows:

1. We, Jemaat Ahmadiyya members, since the beginning, have believed and said kalimah shahadat as taught by His Majesty Muhammad Rasulullah the Prophet (PBUH), i.e. Ashhadu anlaa-ilaaha illallahu wa ashhadu anna Muhammadar Rasullulah, meaning: I witness that there is no God besides Allah and I witness that surely Muhammad is Rasulullah.

2. Since the beginning, we, Jemaat Ahmadiyya members, have believed that Muhammad Rasulullah is Khatamun Nabiyyin (end of prophet).

3. Among our beliefs, Hadhrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad was a teacher, murshid, bearer of good news and warnings, and bearer of mubashshirat, founder and leader of jamaat Ahmadiyat, whose mission was to strengthen dawah and propagation of Islam which was brought by Muhammad (PBUH) the Prophet.

4. To clarify that the word Rasulullah in the 10 points of bai’at that have to read by candidates of jamaat Ahmadiyya is Muhammad (PBUH) the Prophet, we put the word Muhammad in front of the word Rasulullah.

5. We, Ahmadiyya members, believe that there is no wahyu shariat after Al-Quranul Karim brought to Muhammad the Prophet. Al Quran and sunnah of Muhammad (PBUH) the Prophet is the source of Islamic teaching that we follow.

6. Book of Tadzkirah is not Ahmadiyya’s holy book, but it is a record of spiritual experiences of Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad that were collected into a book that is called Tadzkirah by his followers in 1935, that was 27 after his demise.

7. We, Jemaat Ahmadiyya members, have never and will never consider other Muslims outside Ahmadiyya kafir, either by words nor by acts.

8. We, Jemaat Ahmadiyya members, have never and will never call the mosques that we built with a name called Ahmadiyya’s mosque.

9. We declare that every mosque that was built and administered by Jemaat Ahmadiyya is always open for all Muslims from all groups.

10. We, Jemaat Ahmadiyya members, as muslims register (our) marriages at the Religious Affairs Offices and register (our) divorces and other matters related to it to Religious Court Offices in accordance to the law.

11. We, Jamaat Ahmadiyya members, will keep increasing the silaturaim and cooperate with all muslim groups and the public in public social khidmad for Islamic, people and national progress.

12. With this explanation, we, the executive of Jemaat Ahmadiyah Indonesia, expect that Jemaat Ahmadiyya members specifically, and Muslim ummah in general, can understand this matters with ukhuwah Islamiyah and national unity spirit.

Erwan has added the following comments on this:

HMGA being Mahdi or Messiah is not an essential issue here. The Goverment is only concerned about prophethood after the Holy Prophet Muhammad as Qadiani Jama`at believes, because this wrong believe can cause riots.

All of Qadiani publishing in Indonesia will be monitor by the government. This 12-point statement is regarded by Indonesian Goverment as a “massive repentance” by the Qadiani Jama`at of Indonesia.

In response to the news item in The Jakarta Post, the international head-quarters of the Qadiani Jama’at in London has issued a Press Release affirming that they do believe Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad to be a prophet.

Here is a link to the Press Release on their website.

Our comment: Instead of blaming The Jakarta Post for making “false claims”, the Qadiani Jama`at should examine the 12-point statement issued under the signature of their Amir in Indonesia and declare whether it represents their position or not.

For example, we understand some points are as follows:

3. Our belief, among others, is that HM Ghulam Ahmad is a teacher, murshad, bearer of glad news and a warner and bearer of mubashirat, founder and leader of Ahmadiyya Jamaat who strengthened dawah and shariah of Islam brought by Nabi Muhammad SAW.

7. We, Ahmadiyya Jamaat members, have never and shall not consider other Muslims outside Ahmadiyya as kafir, either by words or deeds.

8. We Ahmadiyya Jamaat members never and shall not call mosque built by us by the name Ahmadiyya Mosque. 

This is not an update but another report from The Jakarta Post. The link to it is:

http://www.thejakartapost.com/detailweekly.asp?fileid=20080116.@04

In case this link changes in future, below is given its content. An interesting part of this news (see below) reads:

“Ahmadiyah also said they would not look to convert Muslims to their beliefs, but said they would instead strengthen relations with mainstream Muslims.”

January 16, 2008
Govt spares Ahmadiyah with no ban
The Jakarta Post, Jakarta

The government said Tuesday it would not ban Ahmadiyah, defying a controversial fatwa by the Indonesian Ulema Council (MUI) that had declared Ahmadiyah an heretical Islamic sect. The decision not to ban the group was made after Ahmadiyah leaders issued a statement saying they acknowledged Muhammad as the last prophet. The statement was an apparent reversal of its previous stance.